Problem with Ni-MH rechargable batteries in K200D/K-M

dncraker · 03-10-2009, 05:54 PM

I have a K200D and my wife has the K-M that gets a lot of use...

We have tried Lithium cells (Eveready) and NiMH rechargeables (Varta, Eveready and other unknown asian brands) and I find the rechargables work well in comparison with cost and reuse taken into account.

The problem I have encountered is that certain brands of these NiMH batteries are not recognised or do not seem to work with the cameras.

I can charge the batteries and add them to the camera and it displays as if the cammeras have flat batteries in the displays.

This is now happening with 2 sets of very expensive Eveready AA NiMH batteries and with two sets of other clone asian AA NiMH batteries that I purchased recently.

The batteries test fine for voltage (1.4 volt) on a fresh charge and work fine in all other appliances I use. They just seem odd with these cameras.

They hold their charge well and have been charged and discharged a number of times with no issues or signs of problems.

The cameras just do not seem to like them at all..

I am a little concerned as if when I need to rely on any other batteries other than the two sets currently working that they may end up displaying the same issue and I will be stuck.

Ido not know if it a camera issue or this is a problem with rechargables in new cameras...

Any ideas or thoughts of how to address the problem?

tomtor · 03-11-2009, 12:11 AM

Looks as if those non working batteries have a high internal resistance. That means that the voltage drops more when they have to supply current compared to other batteries.

I think the best approach is to stick to litium or rechargebles you know to work.

simico · 03-11-2009, 07:09 AM

Varta ready2use works great for me. Sanyo Eneloops also. Try these instead of regular Ni-MH batteries.

UnknownVT · 03-11-2009, 09:05 AM

Originally posted by dncraker

The problem I have encountered is that certain brands of these NiMH batteries are not recognised or do not seem to work with the cameras.
The batteries test fine for voltage (1.4 volt) on a fresh charge and work fine in all other appliances I use. They just seem odd with these cameras.

Short version: use eneloops
or any confirmed re-badged eneloops - like Duracell Pre-Charged or Sony Cycle-Energy (for BOTH must be only made in Japan and white top surrounding the +ve button)

Long version - Pentax dSLRs using AA batteries are notorious for being battery fussy and voltage sensitive. I see you have tested the voltage to be 1.4V - but that is open-circuit without any load. It is the operating voltage under load that is important.
NiMH rechargeable batteries native nominal voltage is 1.2V - so this is already at a disadvantage when it comes to Pentax dSLRs - and as they are used, the operating voltage under load sags - depending on the current demand - and this can be as high as ~1.5Amps. (for more details please see this thread - K200D Battery Meter Problem specifically Post #23 )

Also as NiMH batteries age - they start to develop higher internal resistance - which limits the amount of current they can deliver - so the operating voltage under load sags even more.......

eneloops manage to maintain a higher operating voltage under load than any other NiMH rechargeables - this is trivial for almost any other application - BUT for the Pentax dSLR this is a HUGE advantage - please see post #28 (link) in the same referenced thread above. (also eneloop vs. Kodak Pre-Charged Voltage Maintenance summary post #57 , also please see #61 )

eneloops are the newer LSD (Low Self-Discharge NiMH rechargeable batteries Wikipedia link ) as the name suggests they hold on to their charge longer than normal NiMH batteries - higher capacity NiMH (>= 2500mAh) are well known to develop high rates of self-discharge some reported losing their charge in mere days - and this includes the big well known brands (eg: Ref1 Ref2 Ref3)

I use eneloops and DuraLoops (nickname for the Duracell Pre-Charged re-badged eneloops) and have gotten between 650 (with lots of flash usage) to over 1,100 shots (mostly without flash) in my K100D - and this is with the batteries stored for 1-4 months charged before use....... (see eneloop vs. Kodak Pre-Charged Voltage Maintenance)

**sinus007** · 03-11-2009, 10:24 AM

Hi,
After I've used the included Lithiums I switched to Eneloops and never had a problem. But it's nice to know the background: Thank you very much UnknownVT!

bretti_kivi · 03-11-2009, 10:45 AM

I used a set of Sanyo 2700s the other week and they were fine for 700+ shots in -7 centigrade. The owner of the cam has both eneloops and 2700s.

Having said that, I also know that the batteries are treated correctly; discharged, charged again, not dropped, and stored full.

Bret

03-10-2009, 05:54 PM	#1
dncraker Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Rupanyup Australia Posts: 3	Problem with Ni-MH rechargable batteries in K200D/K-M I have a K200D and my wife has the K-M that gets a lot of use... We have tried Lithium cells (Eveready) and NiMH rechargeables (Varta, Eveready and other unknown asian brands) and I find the rechargables work well in comparison with cost and reuse taken into account. The problem I have encountered is that certain brands of these NiMH batteries are not recognised or do not seem to work with the cameras. I can charge the batteries and add them to the camera and it displays as if the cammeras have flat batteries in the displays. This is now happening with 2 sets of very expensive Eveready AA NiMH batteries and with two sets of other clone asian AA NiMH batteries that I purchased recently. The batteries test fine for voltage (1.4 volt) on a fresh charge and work fine in all other appliances I use. They just seem odd with these cameras. They hold their charge well and have been charged and discharged a number of times with no issues or signs of problems. The cameras just do not seem to like them at all.. I am a little concerned as if when I need to rely on any other batteries other than the two sets currently working that they may end up displaying the same issue and I will be stuck. Ido not know if it a camera issue or this is a problem with rechargables in new cameras... Any ideas or thoughts of how to address the problem?

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03-11-2009, 12:11 AM	#2
tomtor Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Netherlands Posts: 382	Looks as if those non working batteries have a high internal resistance. That means that the voltage drops more when they have to supply current compared to other batteries. I think the best approach is to stick to litium or rechargebles you know to work.

03-11-2009, 07:09 AM	#3
simico Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Budapest Posts: 821	Varta ready2use works great for me. Sanyo Eneloops also. Try these instead of regular Ni-MH batteries.

03-11-2009, 09:05 AM	#4
UnknownVT Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: USA Posts: 1,812	Originally posted by dncraker The problem I have encountered is that certain brands of these NiMH batteries are not recognised or do not seem to work with the cameras. The batteries test fine for voltage (1.4 volt) on a fresh charge and work fine in all other appliances I use. They just seem odd with these cameras. Short version: use eneloops or any confirmed re-badged eneloops - like Duracell Pre-Charged or Sony Cycle-Energy (for BOTH must be only made in Japan and white top surrounding the +ve button) Long version - Pentax dSLRs using AA batteries are notorious for being battery fussy and voltage sensitive. I see you have tested the voltage to be 1.4V - but that is open-circuit without any load. It is the operating voltage under load that is important. NiMH rechargeable batteries native nominal voltage is 1.2V - so this is already at a disadvantage when it comes to Pentax dSLRs - and as they are used, the operating voltage under load sags - depending on the current demand - and this can be as high as ~1.5Amps. (for more details please see this thread - K200D Battery Meter Problem specifically Post #23 ) Also as NiMH batteries age - they start to develop higher internal resistance - which limits the amount of current they can deliver - so the operating voltage under load sags even more....... eneloops manage to maintain a higher operating voltage under load than any other NiMH rechargeables - this is trivial for almost any other application - BUT for the Pentax dSLR this is a HUGE advantage - please see post #28 (link) in the same referenced thread above. (also eneloop vs. Kodak Pre-Charged Voltage Maintenance summary post #57 , also please see #61 ) eneloops are the newer LSD (Low Self-Discharge NiMH rechargeable batteries Wikipedia link ) as the name suggests they hold on to their charge longer than normal NiMH batteries - higher capacity NiMH (>= 2500mAh) are well known to develop high rates of self-discharge some reported losing their charge in mere days - and this includes the big well known brands (eg: Ref1 Ref2 Ref3) I use eneloops and DuraLoops (nickname for the Duracell Pre-Charged re-badged eneloops) and have gotten between 650 (with lots of flash usage) to over 1,100 shots (mostly without flash) in my K100D - and this is with the batteries stored for 1-4 months charged before use....... (see eneloop vs. Kodak Pre-Charged Voltage Maintenance)

03-11-2009, 10:24 AM	#5
sinus007 Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Cleveland, OH, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 292	Hi, After I've used the included Lithiums I switched to Eneloops and never had a problem. But it's nice to know the background: Thank you very much UnknownVT!

03-11-2009, 10:45 AM	#6
bretti_kivi Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 46	I used a set of Sanyo 2700s the other week and they were fine for 700+ shots in -7 centigrade. The owner of the cam has both eneloops and 2700s. Having said that, I also know that the batteries are treated correctly; discharged, charged again, not dropped, and stored full. Bret

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