How sensitive is the sensor?

Class A · 05-28-2010, 09:21 PM

Originally posted by photolady

Or is there a way to keep these pec pads from causing streaks on the sensor?

Perhaps you are using too much fluid?

photolady95 · 05-28-2010, 09:41 PM

Well, it doesn't tell you how much to use, just to use several drops. I usually use 4 drops.

rhodopsin · 05-28-2010, 11:51 PM

Put a drop of Eclipse on a pec-pad draped over a q-tip to gently spot clean most maybe all of the streaks. A drop on the corner of a fresh pec-pad dragged over the last of the streaks. Sometimes that's enough.

After cleaning wipes and spot cleaning, the last wipes start at one edge continue smoothly all the way to the other edge without stopping or lifting moving the swab handle like this \|/ (shown with sensor on top) to expose fresh pad along the way across the sensor lifting off any remaining particles causing the streaks.

Peter Zack · 05-29-2010, 02:34 AM

I don't do any of this. In fact with over 150,000 actuations between 2 K20D's and a K10D, I've never used a swipe system to clean a sensor. I change lenses a lot on a wedding shoot and often rushed in bad conditions. Dust happens.

To remove it, like was said earlier, I use a rocket blower, on the mirror down, first to clean the mirror box. Then take a super soft artist paint brush (easily found at any art supply store) and give the sensor a gentle brushing to loosen any dust. Then use the blower again and she's clean. This happens several times a week before every shoot. Using a Loupe, the sensor's have never been scratched.

I wouldn't recommend compressed air though. Too powerful. If it propels airborne particles at a sensor, it's like a bullet and will either near permanently lodge on the sensor or damage it. They do scratch and fairly easily. I scratched one a few years ago although those scratches never effected the images for some reason.

Class A · 05-29-2010, 03:12 AM

Originally posted by Peter Zack

To remove it, like was said earlier, I use a rocket blower, on the mirror down, first to clean the mirror box. Then take a super soft artist paint brush (easily found at any art supply store) and give the sensor a gentle brushing to loosen any dust.

Yeah, that's my approach as well.

No need to spend big bucks on sensor cleaning. I got my brush from an artist store for $9. Make-up brushes also work well. One just need to make absolutely sure that the brush is clean. Many brushes are "sized" and if you don't clean them sufficiently, you'll place gunk on your sensor. I read the Pixel Sweeper article which contains a lot of good tips.

rhodopsin · 05-29-2010, 07:29 AM

Originally posted by Peter Zack

I don't do any of this. In fact with over 150,000 actuations between 2 K20D's and a K10D, I've never used a swipe system to clean a sensor. I change lenses a lot on a wedding shoot and often rushed in bad conditions. Dust happens.

To remove it, like was said earlier, I use a rocket blower, on the mirror down, first to clean the mirror box. Then take a super soft artist paint brush (easily found at any art supply store) and give the sensor a gentle brushing to loosen any dust. Then use the blower again and she's clean. This happens several times a week before every shoot. Using a Loupe, the sensor's have never been scratched.

I wouldn't recommend compressed air though. Too powerful. If it propels airborne particles at a sensor, it's like a bullet and will either near permanently lodge on the sensor or damage it. They do scratch and fairly easily. I scratched one a few years ago although those scratches never effected the images for some reason.

Sounds like not many wedding photos get taken @f/8-f/22

Also, having looked at my sensor through 40x microscope I can guarantee no matter how clean a dust test image looks, microscopic dust gets on the sensor beginning almost immediately after the most thorough cleaning.

That cleaning method is all I've needed after getting mine clean the first time, except I use an anti-static brush, very rarely. If not cleaned for a long time, the dust sticks harder than a brush is able to remove it, requiring solvent with a tiny amount of water in it, such as Eclipse.

photolady95 · 05-29-2010, 08:10 AM

rhodospin, this makes more sense than anything I've tried so far [a pec-pad draped over a q-tip]. This way I can see what I'm dragging across as opposed to a wide swab where I can see nothing of what I'm doing under it.

Peter, I appreciate your comments as well, but the "dust" I had was actually a smudge of something and my rocket blower wouldn't budge it, so I had to resort to liquid cleaning. A brush might have worked, but I didn't know about this before.

Class A, I'm reading the article you linked to now. I'll read more later.

photolady95 · 05-29-2010, 09:42 AM

Btw, what I'm seeing now isn't dust. It's streaks from the solvent and pec pad cleaning. I still have this problem. It does not show up unless I'm shooting at F11 or higher and at sky. So..now what?

I tried the q-tip and pec pad but that didn't work either. I hate to think I need to take this to a pro to do, without the money, that's going to be hard to do.

stevewig · 05-29-2010, 10:11 AM

Originally posted by photolady

Btw, what I'm seeing now isn't dust. It's streaks from the solvent and pec pad cleaning. I still have this problem. It does not show up unless I'm shooting at F11 or higher and at sky. So..now what?

I tried the q-tip and pec pad but that didn't work either. I hate to think I need to take this to a pro to do, without the money, that's going to be hard to do.

Photolady, remember our previous communication on this?

41392901 Visible Dust Mini Dry and Wet Sensor Cleaning Kit with Orange 1.6x & 16mm Sensor Brush

You'll note in that write up that they address the streaking and I can say that I have never had streaking on either of my camera's and using that product. They also recommend using 2-3 drops on one side of the swab and then using the other (dry) side afterwards to dry off the sensor. What you are undoubtedly getting is oil streaking.

Its either the solvent you're using or the technique!

Sometimes the best solution is not the cheapest!

Peter Zack · 05-29-2010, 11:14 AM

Originally posted by rhodopsin

Sounds like not many wedding photos get taken @f/8-f/22

Also, having looked at my sensor through 40x microscope I can guarantee no matter how clean a dust test image looks, microscopic dust gets on the sensor beginning almost immediately after the most thorough cleaning.

That cleaning method is all I've needed after getting mine clean the first time, except I use an anti-static brush, very rarely. If not cleaned for a long time, the dust sticks harder than a brush is able to remove it, requiring solvent with a tiny amount of water in it, such as Eclipse.

Actually I'd say about half my images are taken stopped down. But you'll notice I said I clean the sensor before each shoot. So it gets done regularly. I've never had a situation where dust was there too long to get lodged on the sensor. Of course there's going to be microscopic dust there even fresh from the factory. Dust like that is of no consequence to the finished image.

I've enlarged images to 60 inches on the long side and not seen any issues with my method.

As for the smudges, I can't offer much from what the others have said. I think doing the cleaning again with as little fluid as possible would get rid of the residue. You might have to do it a couple of times.

photolady95 · 05-29-2010, 12:08 PM

Steve, I think I used too much solution and it was transferring to the dry side of the swab. Next week when I get my monthly check, I'll buy that kit and give it a try. These swabs I have now are like paddles and very flimsy at that. They bend real easy and that to me says they aren't stable enough for this type of cleaning.

Peter, thanks. I think my other problem started when I tried to clean the dust spots I found after I had it cleaned completely. I should have just blew it out with the Rocket Blower.

I'll try another clean later. Right now my hands are shaking too bad to hold anything steady.

photolady95 · 06-01-2010, 01:39 PM

Just an update for now. I ordered the kit Steve suggested. Probably won't get it until next week since it's being shipped free. (Adorama says 7-10 days for items shipped free) But I also ordered a Pentax Smcp-da 18-55 3.5/5.6 Al ll with it, so I might get both at the same time. Then I'll try the clean again and let you'll know the results.

photolady95 · 06-04-2010, 07:09 PM

Got the new cleaner in. Had lots of trouble cleaning the sensor, first out, got streaks. Next clean, got most streaks off, then more streaks on, then more streaks off. Finally tried the brush...big mistake. Brush left white powder on sensor (it's not supposed to do that, is it?), back to cleaning again. I think I got it all gone this time, including streaks. I'm going to let it (the sensor) dry until morning and take another look.

Ratmagiclady · 06-04-2010, 08:15 PM

I like Peter's idea, Photolady, having troublewith my hands myself, it's safest, and so far I have managed to avoid touching my sensor with anything. Usually, between the sensor shakey function and a rocket blower, I do OK with persistence at not touching the sensor with anything.

You may need a friend or just a good hands day to undo any wipey worries you have already put there, but once that's done, I do think the blower is the best I can see.

I look at that sensor and I sure don't want to touch it with anything. Goes against all my instincts as an analog photographer, anyway.

(Incidentally, I'd much appreciate suggestions on cleaners: I'm sure that eventually, one will really be needed. )

photolady95 · 06-04-2010, 08:30 PM

Once I get it clean, I'm not touching it with anything other than the rocket blower I bought months ago. This swab cleaning is for the birds. My K100D doesn't have sensor shaky function, not that I know of anyway. I'll do as Peter suggested, clean it with the blower each time I go shooting.

05-29-2010, 10:11 AM	#39
stevewig Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 773	Originally posted by photolady Btw, what I'm seeing now isn't dust. It's streaks from the solvent and pec pad cleaning. I still have this problem. It does not show up unless I'm shooting at F11 or higher and at sky. So..now what? I tried the q-tip and pec pad but that didn't work either. I hate to think I need to take this to a pro to do, without the money, that's going to be hard to do. Photolady, remember our previous communication on this? 41392901 Visible Dust Mini Dry and Wet Sensor Cleaning Kit with Orange 1.6x & 16mm Sensor Brush You'll note in that write up that they address the streaking and I can say that I have never had streaking on either of my camera's and using that product. They also recommend using 2-3 drops on one side of the swab and then using the other (dry) side afterwards to dry off the sensor. What you are undoubtedly getting is oil streaking. Its either the solvent you're using or the technique! Sometimes the best solution is not the cheapest! Last edited by stevewig; 05-29-2010 at 11:01 AM.

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05-28-2010, 09:21 PM	#31
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251	Originally posted by photolady Or is there a way to keep these pec pads from causing streaks on the sensor? Perhaps you are using too much fluid?

05-28-2010, 09:41 PM	#32
photolady95 Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: May 2009 Location: Cruising the forum watching his back Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,712 Original Poster	Well, it doesn't tell you how much to use, just to use several drops. I usually use 4 drops.

05-28-2010, 11:51 PM	#33
rhodopsin Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Deep Forest Posts: 643	Put a drop of Eclipse on a pec-pad draped over a q-tip to gently spot clean most maybe all of the streaks. A drop on the corner of a fresh pec-pad dragged over the last of the streaks. Sometimes that's enough. After cleaning wipes and spot cleaning, the last wipes start at one edge continue smoothly all the way to the other edge without stopping or lifting moving the swab handle like this \\|/ (shown with sensor on top) to expose fresh pad along the way across the sensor lifting off any remaining particles causing the streaks.

05-29-2010, 02:34 AM	#34
Peter Zack Pentaxian Moderator Emeritus Join Date: May 2007 Location: Edmonton Alberta, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 10,643	I don't do any of this. In fact with over 150,000 actuations between 2 K20D's and a K10D, I've never used a swipe system to clean a sensor. I change lenses a lot on a wedding shoot and often rushed in bad conditions. Dust happens. To remove it, like was said earlier, I use a rocket blower, on the mirror down, first to clean the mirror box. Then take a super soft artist paint brush (easily found at any art supply store) and give the sensor a gentle brushing to loosen any dust. Then use the blower again and she's clean. This happens several times a week before every shoot. Using a Loupe, the sensor's have never been scratched. I wouldn't recommend compressed air though. Too powerful. If it propels airborne particles at a sensor, it's like a bullet and will either near permanently lodge on the sensor or damage it. They do scratch and fairly easily. I scratched one a few years ago although those scratches never effected the images for some reason.

05-29-2010, 03:12 AM	#35
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251	Originally posted by Peter Zack To remove it, like was said earlier, I use a rocket blower, on the mirror down, first to clean the mirror box. Then take a super soft artist paint brush (easily found at any art supply store) and give the sensor a gentle brushing to loosen any dust. Yeah, that's my approach as well. No need to spend big bucks on sensor cleaning. I got my brush from an artist store for $9. Make-up brushes also work well. One just need to make absolutely sure that the brush is clean. Many brushes are "sized" and if you don't clean them sufficiently, you'll place gunk on your sensor. I read the Pixel Sweeper article which contains a lot of good tips.

05-29-2010, 07:29 AM	#36
rhodopsin Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Deep Forest Posts: 643	Originally posted by Peter Zack I don't do any of this. In fact with over 150,000 actuations between 2 K20D's and a K10D, I've never used a swipe system to clean a sensor. I change lenses a lot on a wedding shoot and often rushed in bad conditions. Dust happens. To remove it, like was said earlier, I use a rocket blower, on the mirror down, first to clean the mirror box. Then take a super soft artist paint brush (easily found at any art supply store) and give the sensor a gentle brushing to loosen any dust. Then use the blower again and she's clean. This happens several times a week before every shoot. Using a Loupe, the sensor's have never been scratched. I wouldn't recommend compressed air though. Too powerful. If it propels airborne particles at a sensor, it's like a bullet and will either near permanently lodge on the sensor or damage it. They do scratch and fairly easily. I scratched one a few years ago although those scratches never effected the images for some reason. Sounds like not many wedding photos get taken @f/8-f/22 Also, having looked at my sensor through 40x microscope I can guarantee no matter how clean a dust test image looks, microscopic dust gets on the sensor beginning almost immediately after the most thorough cleaning. That cleaning method is all I've needed after getting mine clean the first time, except I use an anti-static brush, very rarely. If not cleaned for a long time, the dust sticks harder than a brush is able to remove it, requiring solvent with a tiny amount of water in it, such as Eclipse.

05-29-2010, 08:10 AM	#37
photolady95 Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: May 2009 Location: Cruising the forum watching his back Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,712 Original Poster	rhodospin, this makes more sense than anything I've tried so far [a pec-pad draped over a q-tip]. This way I can see what I'm dragging across as opposed to a wide swab where I can see nothing of what I'm doing under it. Peter, I appreciate your comments as well, but the "dust" I had was actually a smudge of something and my rocket blower wouldn't budge it, so I had to resort to liquid cleaning. A brush might have worked, but I didn't know about this before. Class A, I'm reading the article you linked to now. I'll read more later.

05-29-2010, 09:42 AM	#38
photolady95 Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: May 2009 Location: Cruising the forum watching his back Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,712 Original Poster	Btw, what I'm seeing now isn't dust. It's streaks from the solvent and pec pad cleaning. I still have this problem. It does not show up unless I'm shooting at F11 or higher and at sky. So..now what? I tried the q-tip and pec pad but that didn't work either. I hate to think I need to take this to a pro to do, without the money, that's going to be hard to do.

05-29-2010, 11:14 AM	#40
Peter Zack Pentaxian Moderator Emeritus Join Date: May 2007 Location: Edmonton Alberta, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 10,643	Originally posted by rhodopsin Sounds like not many wedding photos get taken @f/8-f/22 Also, having looked at my sensor through 40x microscope I can guarantee no matter how clean a dust test image looks, microscopic dust gets on the sensor beginning almost immediately after the most thorough cleaning. That cleaning method is all I've needed after getting mine clean the first time, except I use an anti-static brush, very rarely. If not cleaned for a long time, the dust sticks harder than a brush is able to remove it, requiring solvent with a tiny amount of water in it, such as Eclipse. Actually I'd say about half my images are taken stopped down. But you'll notice I said I clean the sensor before each shoot. So it gets done regularly. I've never had a situation where dust was there too long to get lodged on the sensor. Of course there's going to be microscopic dust there even fresh from the factory. Dust like that is of no consequence to the finished image. I've enlarged images to 60 inches on the long side and not seen any issues with my method. As for the smudges, I can't offer much from what the others have said. I think doing the cleaning again with as little fluid as possible would get rid of the residue. You might have to do it a couple of times.

05-29-2010, 12:08 PM	#41
photolady95 Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: May 2009 Location: Cruising the forum watching his back Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,712 Original Poster	Steve, I think I used too much solution and it was transferring to the dry side of the swab. Next week when I get my monthly check, I'll buy that kit and give it a try. These swabs I have now are like paddles and very flimsy at that. They bend real easy and that to me says they aren't stable enough for this type of cleaning. Peter, thanks. I think my other problem started when I tried to clean the dust spots I found after I had it cleaned completely. I should have just blew it out with the Rocket Blower. I'll try another clean later. Right now my hands are shaking too bad to hold anything steady.

06-01-2010, 01:39 PM	#42
photolady95 Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: May 2009 Location: Cruising the forum watching his back Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,712 Original Poster	Just an update for now. I ordered the kit Steve suggested. Probably won't get it until next week since it's being shipped free. (Adorama says 7-10 days for items shipped free) But I also ordered a Pentax Smcp-da 18-55 3.5/5.6 Al ll with it, so I might get both at the same time. Then I'll try the clean again and let you'll know the results.

06-04-2010, 07:09 PM	#43
photolady95 Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: May 2009 Location: Cruising the forum watching his back Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,712 Original Poster	Got the new cleaner in. Had lots of trouble cleaning the sensor, first out, got streaks. Next clean, got most streaks off, then more streaks on, then more streaks off. Finally tried the brush...big mistake. Brush left white powder on sensor (it's not supposed to do that, is it?), back to cleaning again. I think I got it all gone this time, including streaks. I'm going to let it (the sensor) dry until morning and take another look.

06-04-2010, 08:15 PM	#44
Ratmagiclady Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: GA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,563	I like Peter's idea, Photolady, having troublewith my hands myself, it's safest, and so far I have managed to avoid touching my sensor with anything. Usually, between the sensor shakey function and a rocket blower, I do OK with persistence at not touching the sensor with anything. You may need a friend or just a good hands day to undo any wipey worries you have already put there, but once that's done, I do think the blower is the best I can see. I look at that sensor and I sure don't want to touch it with anything. Goes against all my instincts as an analog photographer, anyway. (Incidentally, I'd much appreciate suggestions on cleaners: I'm sure that eventually, one will really be needed. )

06-04-2010, 08:30 PM	#45
photolady95 Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: May 2009 Location: Cruising the forum watching his back Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,712 Original Poster	Once I get it clean, I'm not touching it with anything other than the rocket blower I bought months ago. This swab cleaning is for the birds. My K100D doesn't have sensor shaky function, not that I know of anyway. I'll do as Peter suggested, clean it with the blower each time I go shooting.