SR and fast shutter speeds

future_retro · 07-06-2010, 08:17 PM

What is the story with using SR and fast shutter speeds? I haven't found any definite answers.

I'm planning on using shutter speeds of 1/500, 1/640, 1/1000, sometimes on a tripod and sometimes handheld, panning will only be used to follow the subject and not to add a sense of motion. Will SR improve, degrade, or have no affect at those speeds? (K7 and Kx with latest firmware if that matters)

I'd love some help, even if it's just people who have been around longer pointing me at some links that google couldn't find

For the past 6 months I've taken %99 of my shots on a tripod and have generally avoided handholding and fast shutter speed, but this winter I'm planning on getting a lot of action shots at the mountain and am a total beginner in this area,

Eruditass · 07-06-2010, 08:27 PM

With a tripod, you shouldn't. The camera will have a long lever arm and it doesn't expect it.

Panning and with a monopod I've heard mixed stories, I always just leave it on.

I don't believe I've heard of SR degrading with only a fast shutter speed.

SR is said to work best not only after the icon lights up at around 1second, but improves after 1.3s. At least someone said so on here or DPR, perhaps with tests.

As a result of that and the desire to add pseudo quick-shift to every AF lens I own (hold lens release), I set my camera to only AF with the AF button, and half-press long before I shoot.

**imtheguy** · 07-06-2010, 09:34 PM

I have experimented with SR/fast shutter/panning with my K20D mostly with a da*300/4 and with the addition of the Pentax AF 1.7x TC. Although I did not do a rigid, scientific study, it appears that panning with SR on sometimes add a little "jitter" to the edges so I keep it off when going for BIFs. I also noted no difference to my eyes with SR on or off at shutter speeds of 1/500 and higher. However, I DID notice an improvement at times when tripod mounted and SR on at shutter speeds of around 1/120 and below with my A*400/2.8 and TCs. Your mileage may vary.

kkoether · 07-06-2010, 09:38 PM

I do a lot of Motorsports and find I get much better results with SR off. It seems like SR and panning don't mix well.

future_retro · 07-06-2010, 11:19 PM

I believe it was your motorsport photos and commentary that make me want to dive into this further

kkoether · 07-06-2010, 11:36 PM

I don't have any real scientific evidence. It just seems to me if I leave SR on my pictures are not quite as crisp and clear. I'm also shooting with a 75-300mm manual zoom so this enables me to change focal lengths without having to reset the focal length in the camera to adjust the SR compensation. This may be where I'm seeing an improvement. I also remember reading on one of these forums something about SR and panning not playing well together. I know I've been happier with my action shots since I've started turning SR off while panning.

hcc · 07-07-2010, 12:12 AM

Originally posted by future_retro

What is the story with using SR and fast shutter speeds? I haven't found any definite answers.

The title of the thread and its content could be misleading. The post of kkoether and another recent threads indicated clearly that SR should be off for "panning and high-shutter speed".

In my experience, SR and high-shutter speed are not linked directly. I shoot often at high shutter speed (rivers, fountains) using MF and AF. I handhold the camera and do not pan. I use shutter speeds between 1/100 to 1/2000s. SR has no effect on the outcome.

Lev · 08-10-2016, 05:35 AM

omg this thread was active 6 years ago.. anyway, if someone will read this... I can agree that the SR degrades sharpness. I see real difference between pictures taken with SR and without, I mean on higher shutter speeds. And if someone says that the SR must be turned off only on tripod, he is probably lying. It is better to turn off SR unless truly necessary.

**stevebrot** · 08-11-2016, 01:13 PM

Originally posted by Lev

And if someone says that the SR must be turned off only on tripod, he is probably lying.

...or perhaps speaking from experience or being overly broad? My experience has been that handheld at any shutter speed it is difficult to assess image sharpness due to multiple variables, the most prominent being focus accuracy. As for being overly broad, limitations while panning are well known and well-documented (see other comments on this thread). The SR system is driven by inertia. Ricoh/Pentax is on record with its recent model bodies that the SR is able to detect panning motion and react appropriately. (http://www.ricoh-imaging.co.jp/english/products/k-3-2/feature/03.html)

Steve

Gimbal · 08-12-2016, 12:12 PM

Originally posted by stevebrot

The SR system is driven by inertia.
Steve

Unless I misunderstand you, no it's not. Every movement of the image sensor is driven by the SR system, the sensor is moved by force to counteract any shake detected by the accelerometers and gyros.

**stevebrot** · 08-12-2016, 01:30 PM

Originally posted by Gimbal

Unless I misunderstand you, no it's not. Every movement of the image sensor is driven by the SR system, the sensor is moved by force to counteract any shake detected by the accelerometers and gyros.

Thanks for inclusion of the actual detectors in the discussion. Accelerometers are inertia (linear) driven. Gyros can detect changes in angular acceleration (rotational inertia). The main processor board includes arrays of both.

The usual confusion regarding SR is that many people think it is based on some form of optical tracking. The second is that it somehow freezes the relative position of the sensor when the shutter opens.

Steve

07-06-2010, 08:17 PM	#1
future_retro Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Western Washington Posts: 572	SR and fast shutter speeds What is the story with using SR and fast shutter speeds? I haven't found any definite answers. I'm planning on using shutter speeds of 1/500, 1/640, 1/1000, sometimes on a tripod and sometimes handheld, panning will only be used to follow the subject and not to add a sense of motion. Will SR improve, degrade, or have no affect at those speeds? (K7 and Kx with latest firmware if that matters) I'd love some help, even if it's just people who have been around longer pointing me at some links that google couldn't find For the past 6 months I've taken %99 of my shots on a tripod and have generally avoided handholding and fast shutter speed, but this winter I'm planning on getting a lot of action shots at the mountain and am a total beginner in this area,

08-11-2016, 01:13 PM	#9
stevebrot Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,880	Originally posted by Lev And if someone says that the SR must be turned off only on tripod, he is probably lying. ...or perhaps speaking from experience or being overly broad? My experience has been that handheld at any shutter speed it is difficult to assess image sharpness due to multiple variables, the most prominent being focus accuracy. As for being overly broad, limitations while panning are well known and well-documented (see other comments on this thread). The SR system is driven by inertia. Ricoh/Pentax is on record with its recent model bodies that the SR is able to detect panning motion and react appropriately. (http://www.ricoh-imaging.co.jp/english/products/k-3-2/feature/03.html) Steve Last edited by stevebrot; 08-11-2016 at 01:27 PM.

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07-06-2010, 08:27 PM	#2
Eruditass Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,206	With a tripod, you shouldn't. The camera will have a long lever arm and it doesn't expect it. Panning and with a monopod I've heard mixed stories, I always just leave it on. I don't believe I've heard of SR degrading with only a fast shutter speed. SR is said to work best not only after the icon lights up at around 1second, but improves after 1.3s. At least someone said so on here or DPR, perhaps with tests. As a result of that and the desire to add pseudo quick-shift to every AF lens I own (hold lens release), I set my camera to only AF with the AF button, and half-press long before I shoot.

07-06-2010, 09:34 PM	#3
imtheguy Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Virginia Beach Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,950	I have experimented with SR/fast shutter/panning with my K20D mostly with a da300/4 and with the addition of the Pentax AF 1.7x TC. Although I did not do a rigid, scientific study, it appears that panning with SR on sometimes add a little "jitter" to the edges so I keep it off when going for BIFs. I also noted no difference to my eyes with SR on or off at shutter speeds of 1/500 and higher. However, I DID notice an improvement at times when tripod mounted and SR on at shutter speeds of around 1/120 and below with my A400/2.8 and TCs. Your mileage may vary.

07-06-2010, 09:38 PM	#4
kkoether Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Huber Heights, OH, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 573	I do a lot of Motorsports and find I get much better results with SR off. It seems like SR and panning don't mix well.

07-06-2010, 11:19 PM	#5
future_retro Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Western Washington Posts: 572 Original Poster	I believe it was your motorsport photos and commentary that make me want to dive into this further

07-06-2010, 11:36 PM	#6
kkoether Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Huber Heights, OH, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 573	I don't have any real scientific evidence. It just seems to me if I leave SR on my pictures are not quite as crisp and clear. I'm also shooting with a 75-300mm manual zoom so this enables me to change focal lengths without having to reset the focal length in the camera to adjust the SR compensation. This may be where I'm seeing an improvement. I also remember reading on one of these forums something about SR and panning not playing well together. I know I've been happier with my action shots since I've started turning SR off while panning.

07-07-2010, 12:12 AM	#7
hcc Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Brisbane, Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,517	Originally posted by future_retro What is the story with using SR and fast shutter speeds? I haven't found any definite answers. The title of the thread and its content could be misleading. The post of kkoether and another recent threads indicated clearly that SR should be off for "panning and high-shutter speed". In my experience, SR and high-shutter speed are not linked directly. I shoot often at high shutter speed (rivers, fountains) using MF and AF. I handhold the camera and do not pan. I use shutter speeds between 1/100 to 1/2000s. SR has no effect on the outcome.

08-10-2016, 05:35 AM	#8
Lev Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Tbilisi, Georgia Posts: 137	omg this thread was active 6 years ago.. anyway, if someone will read this... I can agree that the SR degrades sharpness. I see real difference between pictures taken with SR and without, I mean on higher shutter speeds. And if someone says that the SR must be turned off only on tripod, he is probably lying. It is better to turn off SR unless truly necessary.

08-12-2016, 12:12 PM	#10
Gimbal Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,916	Originally posted by stevebrot The SR system is driven by inertia. Steve Unless I misunderstand you, no it's not. Every movement of the image sensor is driven by the SR system, the sensor is moved by force to counteract any shake detected by the accelerometers and gyros.

08-12-2016, 01:30 PM	#11
stevebrot Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,880	Originally posted by Gimbal Unless I misunderstand you, no it's not. Every movement of the image sensor is driven by the SR system, the sensor is moved by force to counteract any shake detected by the accelerometers and gyros. Thanks for inclusion of the actual detectors in the discussion. Accelerometers are inertia (linear) driven. Gyros can detect changes in angular acceleration (rotational inertia). The main processor board includes arrays of both. The usual confusion regarding SR is that many people think it is based on some form of optical tracking. The second is that it somehow freezes the relative position of the sensor when the shutter opens. Steve