[Pixley]

Hi all I am a newbie in the Dslr world and am very happy to own a new Kx that has already given me some great results. I happened to suggest to another newbie on another non photography site who was asking about entry level Dslrs in the sub $800 range that they might consider a Kx and got this response from a "professional" in response to my suggestion. Is this fair - I just told the original poster to go read the reviews but I can't respond in any detail (not that I am planning to)?

It has nothing to do with whether she will want a FF camera or not.

It is to do with the quality of the image produced. Canon puts their effort into quality rather than features. Also Canon has far better noise handling, so the extra ISO range is counteracted by the fact that the noise makes it less usable. She would be better off just shooting wide open with the 50mm f1.8 so she can use a lower ISO.

If she wants a camera with HD recording and all the other bells and whistles, then she is better off getting a coolpix, or a G10 or whatever the upper end P&S's are at the moment.

There is also the quality of the lenses - you get much better image quality for your money with a Canon lens than you do with any other brand.

There is a reason that Canon and Nikon own nearly the entire market. They are better cameras. Pentax and similar only sell to people who want cheap features at the expense of quality of camera.

Just wondering what other Pentaxians with a lot more experience and knowledge would have said?

[Adam]

Obviously a Canon full-frame would have far superior noise handling to the K-x, but AFAIK, the K-x holds its ground very well as far as that goes.

As far as glass goes, Pentax has quite a lineup of superior lenses, but most of them have to be acquired used.

[amoringello]

Don't even bother replying.
You know better.
Everyone here knows better.
There is little point in arguing with a zealot.

First off, "Professionals" are making money off the iPhone camera.
As the saying goes; Its not the camera that makes the photo, its the photographer.

The camera does not make you a "PRO". Unless you realize the needs and justify the costs, it likely makes you little more than a money wasting hack...
Show me the quality of photos before you brag about your equipment.


I would not put Pentax with the very top end of Canon or Nikon, but I would also not lump them with something like the Canon Rebels either! (which still take some fantastic photos, by the way!)

As far as Lens quality? Much of what Pentax has to offer simply cannot be beat.
Lens *quantity*? Well, here Nikon and Canon have the market locked. You cannot beat the number of lenses these guys are pumping out every month and their various types, sizes, etc...

[kytra]

Hi all I am a newbie in the Dslr world and am very happy to own a new Kx that has already given me some great results. I happened to suggest to another newbie on another non photography site who was asking about entry level Dslrs in the sub $800 range that they might consider a Kx and got this response from a "professional" in response to my suggestion. Is this fair - I just told the original poster to go read the reviews but I can't respond in any detail (not that I am planning to)?



Just wondering what other Pentaxians with a lot more experience and knowledge would have said?

LOL, another case of Pentax bashing.

If one really wants a good camera, they will search reviews and side by side comparisons and handle the camera in a shop before making up their mind.

I was put in the same situation as you were and, because I replied with facts and figures I was categorized as "another Pentax freak" in a Canikon forum. So let them say what they want, you'll be unlikely able to defeat them.

For someone who does not want to go past the standard consumer/tele kit, the Rebels offer a nice package for the money (so does the Kx, that's true) and the power of their marketing will do the rest.

Leave them be and shoot away your Kx.

[Digitalis]

this is a loaded question isn't it?

no, it isn't fair. This "professional" photographer doesn't know what he is talking about. The primary cameras I use made from Leica,Canon and Nikon, alongside my pentax K10 and k7 I find that each camera has something unique to bring to my work.

However, I do see a difference in the rendering from different cameras and let me tell you when looking at the output from current Canon cameras something just doesn't look right. especially now that they are producing 21MPFF and overstuffed 18MP APS-C sensors I can see this overall plastic look that I personally do not like*. Hence, why I am sticking to my 1DsMK II series cameras and not buying new ones.

Incidentally Leica make the best lenses on the planet, not Canon.

*this is my opinion, not to be taken as gospel, however if one has eyes willing to see, they will notice the same thing that in print form the differences become apparent.

[rawr]

That 'professional' is anything but a professional. Most of what this 'pro' says is just laughably stupid and ignorant.

He is just another lazy guy who doesn't stay up to date with what is going on in his own industry, and relies on habits and prejudices to form his views.

Case in point: the lowly Pentax K-x outperforms almost all of the recent Canon camera bodies - including the 7D and 550D - in image quality according to rigorous testing by DXO Labs and others. And Nikon's crap all over Canon in almost every important metric on the DXO Labs tests as well. I'd take their word over a guy who has probably never used a non-Canon camera for the last 5 years.

So a true pro would be objective and say something informed like: 'if you are asking about camera sensor quality, look up the camera you are interested in the DXO Labs database at dxomark.com and see how it performs technically against other brands'. Or look at the testing done on a reputable review site like dpreview or imaging resource and form your views based on their comparisons with similar bodies and their image tests.

He would also say something like 'if you are interested in which brand makes good quality lenses, look at the lens tests on a reputable site like photozone.de or slrgear.com or lenstip.dom to see which perform well optically'. Canon lenses perform well, but independent tests reveal some Canon lenses are lemons. Same deal with Nikon and Pentax. Both produce some great lenses that can match or outperform Canon's best, but both also produce some lemons.

It's stupid and lazy to just say everything is great just because it has a Canon sticker on it, whether it be lenses or cameras.

[Lowell Goudge]

in reply how about a couple of quotes from our own lens forum

clearly some canon owners are not impressed with canon lenses

Hi:
I have the opportunity to purchase a super tak 300mm f4. As I am new to mf lens on my 5d2, I would appreciate some advice, comments or key points I should be aware of in evaluating the lens.
Thanks
David

Ira;
I do understand about the tripod and the size of the beast. But I have a Canon tele that produces blah photos, so I'm hoping the Tak will produce a better, contrasty image, so, that I can avoid an L lens, at least for the moment. Do you know what adaptor I will need for a 5d2 and what is the "screen".
Thanks for you time and words
David

[Ira]

Tell that "professional" that at least Pentax doesn't use Ashton Kutcher to sell its cameras, like Nikon does.

That alone should tell you something.

[Lowell Goudge]

for the OP, regardless of what system you purchase, it is not to please arrogant overbearing idiots who are willing to spend thousands for cameras when they know nothing about cameras or photography

ANY DSLR today are capable of producing satisfying images that can be considered works of art, let me repeat this ANY camera will do.

Unfortunately the same cannot be said about the person behind the camera

the limiting factor in quality of the photograph today is the photographer. It always has been and always will be.

try all the cameras inthe range, look at what you can purchase, and what you want to do, and make up your own mind.

[blotzphoto]

Simply put... no, no it's not.

[vizjerei]

Also Canon has far better noise handling, so the extra ISO range is counteracted by the fact that the noise makes it less usable.

by making the whole picture looks like a watercolor painting? Their "noise handling" just make all the detail go away.

[RioRico]

I shot film for a long, long time. It was my job for a while. I owned and used Canon, Graflex, Kodak, Nikon, Olympus, Yashica, but never a Pentax. Post-film, I owned and used Minolta, Olympus, Sony. Just over two years ago I decided to buy a dSLR. I've trained in systems analysis, so I did extensive research, crunched numbers, drew charts etc.

First I looked for the lenses I wanted, that I could afford -- and my best options were Olympus and Pentax, even though I was given some nice Minolta lenses that were usable on a Sony dSLR. Then I closely read user ratings at dpreview.com and especially noted the bitches and gripes, the comments about wanting to upgrade ASAP, etc. That's what drove me to Pentax. Users of cameras comparable to the Pentax K20D were *not* happy campers.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

There is a demarcation line between advanced and professional photo systems, that has less to do with cameras than support. Canon and Nikon (and Mamiya and Leica and Hasselblad?) maintain extensive and expensive support networks for pros whose livelihoods depend on functioning gear. Pentax is building such a network for their 645D MF camera, starting only in Japan. These larger format (FF and MF) cameras are NOT like anything sold at BestBuy or CostCo or WalMart.

Yet much of Canon/Nikon's mystique is that their cheap plastic consumer crap is somehow associated with high-end cams that cost more than autos or even houses. Yes, Canon/Nikon make superb gear. No, it doesn't always work right.** No, you can't afford it. No, what you CAN afford isn't much like that expensive stuff, it just has the same logos. Hey, it's a marketing scam! Bait and switch! Look at this 5D Mk II! Hey, take this Rebel instead! Feel the magic! Right.

** A pro complained to me that his new FF Canon, at maximum FPS, sprayed oil on the sensor. It took five trips to the Canon shop to get it repaired, with some redesign, he said. It's hard to make a living when your main tool is in the shop.

Previous comments apply. Someone pushing a particular system is selling and/or lying and/or ignorant. Modern dSLRs are wondrous devices; nearly all can deliver superb images, IF USED KNOWINGLY. And nearly all will be junk in just a few years. The longevity of modern plastics (and optical resins) and electronics is questionable. Some of us use photo gear that's a century old. Will that 5D Mk II still be functioning in ten years? Will it be laughably obsolete then?

Whatever. It's only money. NOTE: Many of those high-end Canikon FF's are used for sports or celeb shooting, and their output is printed in slick mags and pulp tabloids of lesser (not to say crappy) image quality. A 5mpx P&S would provide images that are just as suitable. Dig out that old bridge superzoom and you can be in National Geographic and Sports Illustrated (and Hustler) too, eh?

[SpecialK]

Dang, I can't post "w a n k e r".

[wlachan]

Just wondering what other Pentaxians with a lot more experience and knowledge would have said?

Pro make a living out of photography, they may be good within their own realm, but doesn't mean they know everything. The reason Canon & Nikon are so popular because they are the choice of working pros (and for good reasons), and C/N have the most aggressive ads over a long period of time which tattoo into people's mind. The general public just go for the famous and obvious. There was a time Canon had the edge when they took everyone by surprise with their DSLRs, but those days are gone. Against Pentax now, Canon has superior AF, better implementation of video and LV, a bigger array of zoom lenses, ultra-fast primes, pro super-teles and FF etc. Pentax is weak on AF tracking, flash, and unreliable SDM. In terms of image quality, there are variations between models but generally, all existing APS-C are pretty much on par. The truth is, if Pentax failed to penetrate the market, they only have themselves to blame because they were once very popular. Business comes and goes. You cannot change everyone's mind, your life is too short for that.

[TaoMaas]

Pro make a living out of photography, they may be good within their own realm, but doesn't mean they know everything.

This is very true. "Pros" come in a wide assortment of skill levels and experience. I have a friend who has to be considered a pro because he earns 100% of his living through photography. But what he does is take pics of kids' sports teams. I'm not talking about action pics. I mean the team and individual pics. Truth be known, he's really much more of a salesman than a photographer...and he even admits this. He shoots with an 18-200mm lens and it works just dandy for his purposes. Just because someone is a pro doesn't mean they automatically have all the answers. It's also been my experience that those pros who have the type of photography careers that we all dream about don't get all that hung up about gear. Sure, they have their favorites and usually have pretty good reasons for choosing it...but they also recognize that there are other good brands out there, too. I can't say I ever remember any of them slamming other cameras, now that I think about it. In fact, one guy uses a Fuji bridge camera for his personal work...and another shoots pics with his I-phone for his personal stuff.