Using Manual Lenses (M42 Screwmount, M , K) on Pentax DSLRs F--

Racer X 69 · 09-11-2013, 10:54 AM

Originally posted by Pudentaine

. . . . . . I kind of wish I could be here all day!!

You can be. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Just don't tell your wife!

Last edited by Racer X 69; 09-11-2013 at 11:03 AM.

shamgardean · 10-15-2013, 03:46 AM

hi,

new with digital bodies..may I kindly know anybody have experience with this lens and how do I be able to click the shutter to take a pic because the display is F---? thank you much really for any help

g026r · 10-15-2013, 08:09 AM

Originally posted by Adam

Important! The hard part is to get the camera to [/SIZE]actually fire when a manual lens is mounted. In order to accomplish this, enter your camera's custom function menu, select the "Using Aperture Ring" setting (#21 on the K-7, #27 on the K-5), and set it to 2 (allowed). Once you do this, the shutter will at least fire, as it wouldn't have with this setting disabled (you would simply have seen an F-- indication on the top LCD/info screen). The setting description should read: 'Shutter will release when aperture ring is not set to the "A" position' when "allowed" is selected.

The rest of that post contains further useful information.

Fluke · 01-24-2014, 08:31 AM

It needs to be stated in this thread that, at the time or writing, K30 and K50 will not meter correctly with an M42 lens in M mode unless in Live view.

Again, at the time of writing, Pentax/Ricoh don't seem to understand this.

**monochrome** · 01-24-2014, 09:52 AM

Originally posted by Fluke

It needs to be stated in this thread that, at the time or writing, K30 and K50 will not meter correctly with an M42 lens in M mode unless in Live view.

Again, at the time of writing, Pentax/Ricoh don't seem to understand this.

[EDIT: See my post below for further discussion. Metering manual lenses and specifically M42 lenses requires a quite specific set of settings in combination to achieve proper Green Button metering in the manner that I want to use it - fixed ISO, aperture on lens, shutter speed on camera.]

We do not know that Pentax/Ricoh do not understand this. We only know that metering an m42 lens does not work on a K-01 / K30 / K50.

At the time of the release of the K-01 there was a discussion of its challenges metering m42's. A group of users sent extensive technical information RE: same directly to Japan engineers (at their invitation). TTBOMK nothing has been heard since on the subject and two camera bodies using mcuh of the same Firmware have been subsequently released (K30 / K50 are fundamentally a K-01 with PDAF and an optical viewfinder).

My personal opinion - it is opinion only and based on nothing substantive whatsoever - is that Pentax now limits backward compatibility to K-mount lenses.

vonBaloney · 01-24-2014, 10:56 AM

Originally posted by monochrome

We do not know that Pentax/Ricoh do not understand this. We only know that metering an m42 lens does not work on a K-01 / K30 / K50.

At the time of the release of the K-01 there was a discussion of its challenges metering m42's. A group of users sent extensive technical information RE: same directly to Japan engineers (at their invitation). TTBOMK nothing has been heard since on the subject and two camera bodies using mcuh of the same Firmware have been subsequently released (K30 / K50 are fundamentally a K-01 with PDAF and an optical viewfinder).

My personal opinion - it is opinion only and based on nothing substantive whatsoever - is that Pentax now limits backward compatibility to K-mount lenses.

Can't comment on the K30 and K50, but as I posted in the other thread that mentioned this, my K-01 meters absolutely fine with m42 lenses (or even with no lens). Works as expected. Of course the K-01 is ONLY live view, so if the K30 & K50 aren't working properly when not in live view, that sounds like a different issue...

Fluke · 01-24-2014, 11:20 AM

Originally posted by monochrome

We do not know that Pentax/Ricoh do not understand this. We only know that metering an m42 lens does not work on a K-01 / K30 / K50.

At the time of the release of the K-01 there was a discussion of its challenges metering m42's. A group of users sent extensive technical information RE: same directly to Japan engineers (at their invitation). TTBOMK nothing has been heard since on the subject and two camera bodies using mcuh of the same Firmware have been subsequently released (K30 / K50 are fundamentally a K-01 with PDAF and an optical viewfinder).

My personal opinion - it is opinion only and based on nothing substantive whatsoever - is that Pentax now limits backward compatibility to K-mount lenses.

Thanks for correcting me.

I am only speaking based on recent communication with Pentax/Ricoh customer service. I keep explaining to them what the problem is and they keep telling me to set Aperture Ring to Permitted, set Green Button to Tv Shift or Program Shift in Manual mode, and they keep referring me to:
Using Older Lenses on the PENTAX K-50 | Ricoh Imaging Support
which is clearly not correct.

If the are deliberately downgrading backward compatibility with M42 lenses, then their customer service dept don't know about it and neither does their website.

vonBaloney · 01-24-2014, 01:33 PM

Originally posted by Fluke

Thanks for correcting me.

I am only speaking based on recent communication with Pentax/Ricoh customer service. I keep explaining to them what the problem is and they keep telling me to set Aperture Ring to Permitted, set Green Button to Tv Shift or Program Shift in Manual mode, and they keep referring me to:
Using Older Lenses on the PENTAX K-50 | Ricoh Imaging Support
which is clearly not correct.

If the are deliberately downgrading backward compatibility with M42 lenses, then their customer service dept don't know about it and neither does their website.

How about Av mode? That's what I always use for m42s anyway (if M mode didn't work, I'd never know it)...

aleonx3 · 01-24-2014, 01:46 PM

Originally posted by vonBaloney

How about Av mode? That's what I always use for m42s anyway (if M mode didn't work, I'd never know it)...

I always use Av mode (on camera) for m42 lens and M mode on K/M lenses. I don't think it would work on M mode; just my thoughts...

vonBaloney · 01-24-2014, 02:22 PM

Originally posted by aleonx3

I always use Av mode (on camera) for m42 lens and M mode on K/M lenses. I don't think it would work on M mode; just my thoughts...

Well, it should work on M mode if the lens is stopped down manually -- hit green button to set shutter. But apparently that is not happening on K30/K50. But Av mode is much easier I think, and some have said it is less accurate, I haven't seen that happen either. (Seems to be somewhat lens dependent.)

aleonx3 · 01-24-2014, 03:28 PM

Originally posted by vonBaloney

Well, it should work on M mode if the lens is stopped down manually -- hit green button to set shutter. But apparently that is not happening on K30/K50. But Av mode is much easier I think, and some have said it is less accurate, I haven't seen that happen either. (Seems to be somewhat lens dependent.)

Well, I guess I didn't really understand the original question. Let me see if I am getting to the point. There are 2 kinds of m42 lens, one with A/M switch and one without. So, the m42 lens without A/M switch operates like only in Auto mode; which relies on the operation of the PIN to stop down. Alternatively, people, myself included, alter the lens mechanism to make it like full time M switch mode (no need to press the PIN to stop down). Therefore, with m42 lens, one can set the aperture by turning the aperture ring for the camera to meter, hence we can use Av mode instead of Manual mode.

Although with m42 lens (assuming you have M switch on) you could still use M mode on the camera, but why would you? With Av mode, one can set the front dial to ISO and the green button for auto-ISO, then essentially you are shooting a m42 lens in TAv mode. Why use M mode for m42 lens for k-01, k-30/k-50. I have the k-01 and use Av mode with no problem at all.

**monochrome** · 01-24-2014, 03:38 PM

I suppose if one wants to act like a Luddite and shoot 100% fixed ISO (ASA) and vary the Sv on camera and the Av on lens, while the camera meters the scene. That's what I like to do, without having to wait for developing and scanning to a CD. Unless what I want to do on any given day is actually use a film camera.

vonBaloney · 01-24-2014, 05:42 PM

Originally posted by aleonx3

Although with m42 lens (assuming you have M switch on) you could still use M mode on the camera, but why would you? With Av mode, one can set the front dial to ISO and the green button for auto-ISO, then essentially you are shooting a m42 lens in TAv mode. Why use M mode for m42 lens for k-01, k-30/k-50. I have the k-01 and use Av mode with no problem at all.

Yes, I'm assuming anyone using an m42 can actually stop the lens down, therefore Auto-Man question always assumes Man or altered lens. As for why anyone would shoot in M and use green-button when they could be using Av? I'm with you -- I never would. The answer is simply that they want to, or possibly they are finding that the metering (if it is working) is more accurate that way than with Av. (That claim is common, although I have never had any trouble with metering on Av, putting aside the fact that you can only use center or spot metering with these lenses either way.)

aleonx3 · 01-24-2014, 07:06 PM

Originally posted by vonBaloney

Yes, I'm assuming anyone using an m42 can actually stop the lens down, therefore Auto-Man question always assumes Man or altered lens. As for why anyone would shoot in M and use green-button when they could be using Av? I'm with you -- I never would. The answer is simply that they want to, or possibly they are finding that the metering (if it is working) is more accurate that way than with Av. (That claim is common, although I have never had any trouble with metering on Av, putting aside the fact that you can only use center or spot metering with these lenses either way.)

Well, I just tried to use a Topcon m42 lens on my k-01 camera, I couldn't even use M mode to shoot on the camera, it defaults back to Av mode. And of course, the metering option on the k-01 with m42 MF lens supports only Center-weight and spot anyway. So, I guess I really don't get it.

vonBaloney · 01-24-2014, 08:30 PM

Originally posted by aleonx3

Well, I just tried to use a Topcon m42 lens on my k-01 camera, I couldn't even use M mode to shoot on the camera, it defaults back to Av mode. And of course, the metering option on the k-01 with m42 MF lens supports only Center-weight and spot anyway. So, I guess I really don't get it.

With the K-01, you must remember to also set it to a fixed ISO or it will be in TAv Mode really when you set it on M. (Which with an m42 on it, is just Av mode.)

10-15-2013, 03:46 AM	#182
shamgardean New Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 5	Tou Five Star 75-200mm lens hi, new with digital bodies..may I kindly know anybody have experience with this lens and how do I be able to click the shutter to take a pic because the display is F---? thank you much really for any help

01-24-2014, 09:52 AM	#185
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by Fluke It needs to be stated in this thread that, at the time or writing, K30 and K50 will not meter correctly with an M42 lens in M mode unless in Live view. Again, at the time of writing, Pentax/Ricoh don't seem to understand this. [EDIT: See my post below for further discussion. Metering manual lenses and specifically M42 lenses requires a quite specific set of settings in combination to achieve proper Green Button metering in the manner that I want to use it - fixed ISO, aperture on lens, shutter speed on camera.] We do not know that Pentax/Ricoh do not understand this. We only know that metering an m42 lens does not work on a K-01 / K30 / K50. At the time of the release of the K-01 there was a discussion of its challenges metering m42's. A group of users sent extensive technical information RE: same directly to Japan engineers (at their invitation). TTBOMK nothing has been heard since on the subject and two camera bodies using mcuh of the same Firmware have been subsequently released (K30 / K50 are fundamentally a K-01 with PDAF and an optical viewfinder). My personal opinion - it is opinion only and based on nothing substantive whatsoever - is that Pentax now limits backward compatibility to K-mount lenses. Last edited by monochrome; 01-26-2014 at 12:21 PM.

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09-11-2013, 10:54 AM	#181
Racer X 69 Moderator Man With A Camera Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: The Great Pacific Northwet, in the Land Between Canada and Mexico Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,073	Originally posted by Pudentaine . . . . . . I kind of wish I could be here all day!! You can be. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Just don't tell your wife! Last edited by Racer X 69; 09-11-2013 at 11:03 AM.

10-15-2013, 08:09 AM	#183
g026r Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,074	Originally posted by Adam Important! The hard part is to get the camera to [/SIZE]actually fire when a manual lens is mounted. In order to accomplish this, enter your camera's custom function menu, select the "Using Aperture Ring" setting (#21 on the K-7, #27 on the K-5), and set it to 2 (allowed). Once you do this, the shutter will at least fire, as it wouldn't have with this setting disabled (you would simply have seen an F-- indication on the top LCD/info screen). The setting description should read: 'Shutter will release when aperture ring is not set to the "A" position' when "allowed" is selected. The rest of that post contains further useful information.

01-24-2014, 08:31 AM	#184
Fluke New Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 16	It needs to be stated in this thread that, at the time or writing, K30 and K50 will not meter correctly with an M42 lens in M mode unless in Live view. Again, at the time of writing, Pentax/Ricoh don't seem to understand this.

01-24-2014, 10:56 AM	#186
vonBaloney Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 6,029	Originally posted by monochrome We do not know that Pentax/Ricoh do not understand this. We only know that metering an m42 lens does not work on a K-01 / K30 / K50. At the time of the release of the K-01 there was a discussion of its challenges metering m42's. A group of users sent extensive technical information RE: same directly to Japan engineers (at their invitation). TTBOMK nothing has been heard since on the subject and two camera bodies using mcuh of the same Firmware have been subsequently released (K30 / K50 are fundamentally a K-01 with PDAF and an optical viewfinder). My personal opinion - it is opinion only and based on nothing substantive whatsoever - is that Pentax now limits backward compatibility to K-mount lenses. Can't comment on the K30 and K50, but as I posted in the other thread that mentioned this, my K-01 meters absolutely fine with m42 lenses (or even with no lens). Works as expected. Of course the K-01 is ONLY live view, so if the K30 & K50 aren't working properly when not in live view, that sounds like a different issue...

01-24-2014, 11:20 AM	#187
Fluke New Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 16	Originally posted by monochrome We do not know that Pentax/Ricoh do not understand this. We only know that metering an m42 lens does not work on a K-01 / K30 / K50. At the time of the release of the K-01 there was a discussion of its challenges metering m42's. A group of users sent extensive technical information RE: same directly to Japan engineers (at their invitation). TTBOMK nothing has been heard since on the subject and two camera bodies using mcuh of the same Firmware have been subsequently released (K30 / K50 are fundamentally a K-01 with PDAF and an optical viewfinder). My personal opinion - it is opinion only and based on nothing substantive whatsoever - is that Pentax now limits backward compatibility to K-mount lenses. Thanks for correcting me. I am only speaking based on recent communication with Pentax/Ricoh customer service. I keep explaining to them what the problem is and they keep telling me to set Aperture Ring to Permitted, set Green Button to Tv Shift or Program Shift in Manual mode, and they keep referring me to: Using Older Lenses on the PENTAX K-50 \| Ricoh Imaging Support which is clearly not correct. If the are deliberately downgrading backward compatibility with M42 lenses, then their customer service dept don't know about it and neither does their website.

01-24-2014, 01:33 PM	#188
vonBaloney Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 6,029	Originally posted by Fluke Thanks for correcting me. I am only speaking based on recent communication with Pentax/Ricoh customer service. I keep explaining to them what the problem is and they keep telling me to set Aperture Ring to Permitted, set Green Button to Tv Shift or Program Shift in Manual mode, and they keep referring me to: Using Older Lenses on the PENTAX K-50 \| Ricoh Imaging Support which is clearly not correct. If the are deliberately downgrading backward compatibility with M42 lenses, then their customer service dept don't know about it and neither does their website. How about Av mode? That's what I always use for m42s anyway (if M mode didn't work, I'd never know it)...

01-24-2014, 01:46 PM	#189
aleonx3 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Brampton, Ontario Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,996	Originally posted by vonBaloney How about Av mode? That's what I always use for m42s anyway (if M mode didn't work, I'd never know it)... I always use Av mode (on camera) for m42 lens and M mode on K/M lenses. I don't think it would work on M mode; just my thoughts...

01-24-2014, 02:22 PM	#190
vonBaloney Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 6,029	Originally posted by aleonx3 I always use Av mode (on camera) for m42 lens and M mode on K/M lenses. I don't think it would work on M mode; just my thoughts... Well, it should work on M mode if the lens is stopped down manually -- hit green button to set shutter. But apparently that is not happening on K30/K50. But Av mode is much easier I think, and some have said it is less accurate, I haven't seen that happen either. (Seems to be somewhat lens dependent.)

01-24-2014, 03:28 PM	#191
aleonx3 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Brampton, Ontario Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,996	Originally posted by vonBaloney Well, it should work on M mode if the lens is stopped down manually -- hit green button to set shutter. But apparently that is not happening on K30/K50. But Av mode is much easier I think, and some have said it is less accurate, I haven't seen that happen either. (Seems to be somewhat lens dependent.) Well, I guess I didn't really understand the original question. Let me see if I am getting to the point. There are 2 kinds of m42 lens, one with A/M switch and one without. So, the m42 lens without A/M switch operates like only in Auto mode; which relies on the operation of the PIN to stop down. Alternatively, people, myself included, alter the lens mechanism to make it like full time M switch mode (no need to press the PIN to stop down). Therefore, with m42 lens, one can set the aperture by turning the aperture ring for the camera to meter, hence we can use Av mode instead of Manual mode. Although with m42 lens (assuming you have M switch on) you could still use M mode on the camera, but why would you? With Av mode, one can set the front dial to ISO and the green button for auto-ISO, then essentially you are shooting a m42 lens in TAv mode. Why use M mode for m42 lens for k-01, k-30/k-50. I have the k-01 and use Av mode with no problem at all.

01-24-2014, 03:38 PM	#192
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	I suppose if one wants to act like a Luddite and shoot 100% fixed ISO (ASA) and vary the Sv on camera and the Av on lens, while the camera meters the scene. That's what I like to do, without having to wait for developing and scanning to a CD. Unless what I want to do on any given day is actually use a film camera.

01-24-2014, 05:42 PM	#193
vonBaloney Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 6,029	Originally posted by aleonx3 Although with m42 lens (assuming you have M switch on) you could still use M mode on the camera, but why would you? With Av mode, one can set the front dial to ISO and the green button for auto-ISO, then essentially you are shooting a m42 lens in TAv mode. Why use M mode for m42 lens for k-01, k-30/k-50. I have the k-01 and use Av mode with no problem at all. Yes, I'm assuming anyone using an m42 can actually stop the lens down, therefore Auto-Man question always assumes Man or altered lens. As for why anyone would shoot in M and use green-button when they could be using Av? I'm with you -- I never would. The answer is simply that they want to, or possibly they are finding that the metering (if it is working) is more accurate that way than with Av. (That claim is common, although I have never had any trouble with metering on Av, putting aside the fact that you can only use center or spot metering with these lenses either way.)

01-24-2014, 07:06 PM	#194
aleonx3 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Brampton, Ontario Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,996	Originally posted by vonBaloney Yes, I'm assuming anyone using an m42 can actually stop the lens down, therefore Auto-Man question always assumes Man or altered lens. As for why anyone would shoot in M and use green-button when they could be using Av? I'm with you -- I never would. The answer is simply that they want to, or possibly they are finding that the metering (if it is working) is more accurate that way than with Av. (That claim is common, although I have never had any trouble with metering on Av, putting aside the fact that you can only use center or spot metering with these lenses either way.) Well, I just tried to use a Topcon m42 lens on my k-01 camera, I couldn't even use M mode to shoot on the camera, it defaults back to Av mode. And of course, the metering option on the k-01 with m42 MF lens supports only Center-weight and spot anyway. So, I guess I really don't get it.

01-24-2014, 08:30 PM	#195
vonBaloney Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 6,029	Originally posted by aleonx3 Well, I just tried to use a Topcon m42 lens on my k-01 camera, I couldn't even use M mode to shoot on the camera, it defaults back to Av mode. And of course, the metering option on the k-01 with m42 MF lens supports only Center-weight and spot anyway. So, I guess I really don't get it. With the K-01, you must remember to also set it to a fixed ISO or it will be in TAv Mode really when you set it on M. (Which with an m42 on it, is just Av mode.)