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10-06-2010, 10:19 AM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by einstrigger Quote
Owning both a K-x and K-7, I find myself reaching for the K-7 a lot more. My photos often are outside, but for the things that the OP mentioned (indoors, kids, family gatherings), I find the K-7 to still do quite well. I'm not sure about your indoor gatherings, but most of mine have plenty of ambient light. And if that's still not enough, a flash takes the rest of the slack. Most of my family/friends don't care about a flash going off, it's not like we're at a museum or show.

I just wanted to add that the K-x was my very first DSLR, but I've since grown to like the K-7 a whole lot more. The external controls, especially with the battery grip are one of the biggest factors for me. I find myself cursing sometimes when I go back to use the K-x and my index finger reaches for the front dial only to find it not there. Same thing when I flip the camera to shoot portraits, everything just feels better having the grip of the K-7. Well, at least that's the best way I can describe it.

You know, if I were to shoot dimly lit shows or concerts, I'd reach for the K-x, but for everyday shooting, I much prefer the K-7.
Thanks!!! (I also want to develop my skills, so leaning towards K-7, for now without additional grip...)
- How many stops is the difference between K-x and K-7 (your maximum acceptable noise level)?

Isn't there a site that shows 100% crops of same subjects from close to all camera's at all applicable ISO levels?
- Yeah, I am sure such site exists, but can't find it and no really go to sleep, maybe tomorow I find it posted here in this thread

10-06-2010, 10:35 AM   #47
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If you go to dpreview.com and look at the reviews for the K-7 and K-x, you should be able to find the 100% crops at different ISO levels.

As for the the K-7, anything above ISO800 is my limit. If I need to shoot above 800, then I reach for the K-x or a flash gun.
10-06-2010, 10:49 AM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by JoepLX3 Quote
How can I ever go to bed like this?!?!?
- It is almost 2 AM and my two daughters are already sleeping from 8 PM, so will for sure wake up by 7 AM...
- Oh, checked on them and they were cute, but making a picture of them in such dark setting wouldn't be won't be worth printing out enlarged either way... (and with a tripod to support long shutter speeds, it would be possible to enable lower ISO)

Gosh, I really appreciate your effort and looked and compared all the photo's, but don't know really what conclussion(s) to draw from them.
- Noise level on all of them seem to be not acceptable
- How would K-x perform?


You Don't go to bed.. This decision will bug you until you actually make the choice and make the purchase. Then you won't be able to sleep because you want to play with your new toys. Get use to it

The conclusion you should draw from my photos is this. On the K7, very high ISO is pretty useless in that situation. As I've stated before, you're pretty safe up to about 1600. Second, the in camera ISO noise reduction really doesn't help matters much and with that type of photo, nothing does. By the time you removed all the noise from those photos, there would be nothing left of any detail. But, that is the worse case scenario with the K7. It only improves from there. Like I said, manage your expectations and you won't be disappointed.

I've added another photo to the set only this time, using the built in flash (withflash is part of the filename). That is straight out of the camera, High noise reduction employed (because I forgot to reset it). As you can see, If there is enough light, a Usable photo is possible with the K7. This of course is true with ANY camera, including the Kx. Photos require light and without it, you take what you can get. Again, this is a situation I would never use in actual practice but in a pinch, it'll work. My rule of thumb is start at ISO 100 and go from there depending on need.

Enjoy your new camera, whichever one you choose.

10-06-2010, 03:59 PM   #49
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My first post. I'm starting here because I'm in the same place as the OP with the exception of the Kr. I was set to purchase the K7, but after much thought I'm likely to purchase the Kx. I didn't consider the Kr, because the price is really close to the K7.

It is interesting to read the comments from both Kx and K7 supporters. My appetite for tech toys desires the K7, but after viewing many of the photos taken with the Kx, I'm pretty sure it can reignite a passion that I enjoyed many years ago with my Pentax 35 mm cameras.

Right now, my thought is to purchase the Kx with the 18 - 55 & the 55 -300 lens to get my feet wet and hone my skills. If the Kx rekindles the passion, I can pickup better quality lenses as I advance. Then I can move on to the K5.

10-06-2010, 04:10 PM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by Herr Trigger Quote
My first post. I'm starting here because I'm in the same place as the OP with the exception of the Kr. I was set to purchase the K7, but after much thought I'm likely to purchase the Kx. I didn't consider the Kr, because the price is really close to the K7.

It is interesting to read the comments from both Kx and K7 supporters. My appetite for tech toys desires the K7, but after viewing many of the photos taken with the Kx, I'm pretty sure it can reignite a passion that I enjoyed many years ago with my Pentax 35 mm cameras.

Right now, my thought is to purchase the Kx with the 18 - 55 & the 55 -300 lens to get my feet wet and hone my skills. If the Kx rekindles the passion, I can pickup better quality lenses as I advance. Then I can move on to the K5.
I was in your position a month ago. I chose the same setup you have proposed. I know that Primes are more precise and all that, and that "kit lenses" get a bad reputation but I have to say that the 55-300 in the K-x kit really has surprised me in a positive way. Is my old A50/2 sharper than the 18-55 set at 50mm - yes. Is the A28/2.8 sharper at 28 than the same lens? Sure. But its not a bad lens at all. Not sure that I will go to a K7 or K5 any time soon but I might try an autofocus prime next, once I have a more solid functional grasp of using my K-x with those lenses that is.

Good luck with your choice and welcome aboard!
10-06-2010, 04:40 PM   #51
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BH Photo has a good deal on the 18-55 & 55-300 kit ($628 free shipping) still in stock. Usually it gets sold out pretty quick. Thought I'd mention.
10-06-2010, 08:01 PM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by JeffJS Quote


You Don't go to bed.. This decision will bug you until you actually make the choice and make the purchase. Then you won't be able to sleep because you want to play with your new toys. Get use to it

The conclusion you should draw from my photos is this. On the K7, very high ISO is pretty useless in that situation. As I've stated before, you're pretty safe up to about 1600. Second, the in camera ISO noise reduction really doesn't help matters much and with that type of photo, nothing does. By the time you removed all the noise from those photos, there would be nothing left of any detail. But, that is the worse case scenario with the K7. It only improves from there. Like I said, manage your expectations and you won't be disappointed.

I've added another photo to the set only this time, using the built in flash (withflash is part of the filename). That is straight out of the camera, High noise reduction employed (because I forgot to reset it). As you can see, If there is enough light, a Usable photo is possible with the K7. This of course is true with ANY camera, including the Kx. Photos require light and without it, you take what you can get. Again, this is a situation I would never use in actual practice but in a pinch, it'll work. My rule of thumb is start at ISO 100 and go from there depending on need.

Enjoy your new camera, whichever one you choose.

Sorry, sorry, sorry, but I went to bed and in bed I indeed continued thinking about it, but because I was pretty tired not too long!!!

In my dreams I told myself that a good digital camera should actually not have two wheels for shutter time and aperture, but also one for ISO. Not having film does not only allow users to take many pictures and only select the best one (on LCD), but also to change film sensitive for every photo.
- So the K-7 is a good dSLR for a heavy SLR user, but missing out on good High ISO performance is a big weakness.
- There are real "work-arrounds" for the weakness of the K-x, but not for the
bad high ISO performance of the K-7. No focus assist beam = use pop up flash, No 2 wheels, use additional button, No big LCD = just take another photo to be sure and analyse offline...

About my expectations, I see five scenarios:
  1. I buy the K-x and am happy with that "for ever" = 400 Euro
  2. I buy the K-x and 1-2 years later I upgrade to e.g. K-5 = 400 + 800 = 1200 Euro
  3. I buy the K-7 and am happy with that "for ever" but will never utilize the real benefits of Dslr's = 800 Euro
  4. I buy the K-7 and 1-2 years late I upgrade to e.g. K-5 = 800 + 800 = 1600 Euro
  5. I buy the K-5 and am happy with that "for ever" = 1200 Euro
1. is nice and cheap scenario
2. isn't bad, because that K-x will then be a very capable and nice compact 2nd camera that I also can give away to my father (so keeps it's value) and I buy a new camera twice
3. isn't the best scenario and the more I think about it also not very likely to happen, maybe the K-5/7 are too complicated or in the end I also want the good High ISO performance
4. is IMO the worst scenario, in 2 years the K-7 is worthless
5. nice scenario as well...
10-06-2010, 08:07 PM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by Herr Trigger Quote
My first post. I'm starting here because I'm in the same place as the OP with the exception of the Kr. I was set to purchase the K7, but after much thought I'm likely to purchase the Kx. I didn't consider the Kr, because the price is really close to the K7.

It is interesting to read the comments from both Kx and K7 supporters. My appetite for tech toys desires the K7, but after viewing many of the photos taken with the Kx, I'm pretty sure it can reignite a passion that I enjoyed many years ago with my Pentax 35 mm cameras.

Right now, my thought is to purchase the Kx with the 18 - 55 & the 55 -300 lens to get my feet wet and hone my skills. If the Kx rekindles the passion, I can pickup better quality lenses as I advance. Then I can move on to the K5.
Sounds like a plan!!!

QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
I was in your position a month ago. I chose the same setup you have proposed. I know that Primes are more precise and all that, and that "kit lenses" get a bad reputation but I have to say that the 55-300 in the K-x kit really has surprised me in a positive way. Is my old A50/2 sharper than the 18-55 set at 50mm - yes. Is the A28/2.8 sharper at 28 than the same lens? Sure. But its not a bad lens at all. Not sure that I will go to a K7 or K5 any time soon but I might try an autofocus prime next, once I have a more solid functional grasp of using my K-x with those lenses that is.

Good luck with your choice and welcome aboard!
Sounds like the plan in action!!!

I am planning to finish work early today and pick up a camera on my way home:
- If the K-5 is there then I might go for that one directly (my wife sometimes buying a 500 Euro bag supported me in that direction)
- But most likely it will be the K-x (only if the grip comparison disappoints me too much then I might come home without a camera)

10-06-2010, 08:08 PM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by agsy Quote
BH Photo has a good deal on the 18-55 & 55-300 kit ($628 free shipping) still in stock. Usually it gets sold out pretty quick. Thought I'd mention.
Thanks, helpfull for readers (and BH).
- I live in Japan and already bought an used DA 50-200 mm to start playing with
10-06-2010, 08:16 PM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by LeeRunge Quote
I have a K-7 with DA* 16-50 and 60-250

It shoots great shots at low ISO (below 1600) as far as image quality.

The controls are very good and offer customization in spades.

Weather sealing is very good. I have used mine in a thunderstorm with no issues.

AF is ok if you are going after slow or non moving targets. I picked up a 7d because of AF letdowns. It hunts a lot and is slow (even with sdm) compared to 7d.

Movie mode and live view have given me problems. Mine overheats very quick (less than 2min) regardless of temps between 60-110f. I can't use live view over 90 degrees as it overheats. Movie mode is almost useless in mine because you can't rely on it.

SR is hard to judge but it seems to work.
Two more reasons to go for K-5 over K-7, but the K-3 will be even better, but that still less good as the K-1!!!

I get the impression Pentax resolved Live View with K-r and K-5, Auto focus imho still to be confirmed...
10-06-2010, 08:22 PM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by JoepLX3 Quote
Sorry, sorry, sorry, but I went to bed and in bed I indeed continued thinking about it, but because I was pretty tired not too long!!!

In my dreams I told myself that a good digital camera should actually not have two wheels for shutter time and aperture, but also one for ISO. Not having film does not only allow users to take many pictures and only select the best one (on LCD), but also to change film sensitive for every photo.
- So the K-7 is a good dSLR for a heavy SLR user, but missing out on good High ISO performance is a big weakness.
- There are real "work-arrounds" for the weakness of the K-x, but not for the
bad high ISO performance of the K-7. No focus assist beam = use pop up flash, No 2 wheels, use additional button, No big LCD = just take another photo to be sure and analyse offline...

About my expectations, I see five scenarios:
  1. I buy the K-x and am happy with that "for ever" = 400 Euro
  2. I buy the K-x and 1-2 years later I upgrade to e.g. K-5 = 400 + 800 = 1200 Euro
  3. I buy the K-7 and am happy with that "for ever" but will never utilize the real benefits of Dslr's = 800 Euro
  4. I buy the K-7 and 1-2 years late I upgrade to e.g. K-5 = 800 + 800 = 1600 Euro
  5. I buy the K-5 and am happy with that "for ever" = 1200 Euro
1. is nice and cheap scenario
2. isn't bad, because that K-x will then be a very capable and nice compact 2nd camera that I also can give away to my father (so keeps it's value) and I buy a new camera twice
3. isn't the best scenario and the more I think about it also not very likely to happen, maybe the K-5/7 are too complicated or in the end I also want the good High ISO performance
4. is IMO the worst scenario, in 2 years the K-7 is worthless
5. nice scenario as well...
You're totally right man. I bought the K-x a few months ago and I'll probably get the K-5 eventually, and I couldn't be happier with my purchase. I don't foresee it being my "forever" DSLR, but I don't think I would with any DSLR, and it was only 500 dollars for a great camera that will last me a good while. You really couldn't go wrong with it.
10-06-2010, 10:48 PM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by JoshRead Quote
You're totally right man. I bought the K-x a few months ago and I'll probably get the K-5 eventually, and I couldn't be happier with my purchase. I don't foresee it being my "forever" DSLR, but I don't think I would with any DSLR, and it was only 500 dollars for a great camera that will last me a good while. You really couldn't go wrong with it.
Maybe I should tell me wife (and myself) that by going for K-x instead of K-r/K-7 I actually saved ~400 Euro's. If I keep that money seperated then buying the K-5 1-2 years from now will only cost me 400 Euro's more.
10-06-2010, 11:43 PM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by JoepLX3 Quote
Maybe I should tell me wife (and myself) that by going for K-x instead of K-r/K-7 I actually saved ~400 Euro's. If I keep that money seperated then buying the K-5 1-2 years from now will only cost me 400 Euro's more.
You made your decision and I think it is the right one!

One thing that was not mentioned is that when you use your manual M lenses is that you cannot use a second control wheel to control the aperture. The aperture ring on your lenses will act as your second control wheel. Shooting the kx with manual glass is a good combo.
10-07-2010, 12:12 AM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by tomtor Quote
You made your decision and I think it is the right one!

One thing that was not mentioned is that when you use your manual M lenses is that you cannot use a second control wheel to control the aperture. The aperture ring on your lenses will act as your second control wheel. Shooting the kx with manual glass is a good combo.
That may be a little misleading. While it is true that there is no combo setting for the e-dials that allows two unique functions with an M type lens (or an A lens switched off of A to manual aperture control), you Can shoot in Av mode with an M lens. In my previous example of setting ISO or EV to one of the dials, that one remains active and completely usable.

10-07-2010, 12:23 AM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by tomtor Quote
You made your decision and I think it is the right one!

One thing that was not mentioned is that when you use your manual M lenses is that you cannot use a second control wheel to control the aperture. The aperture ring on your lenses will act as your second control wheel. Shooting the kx with manual glass is a good combo.
QuoteOriginally posted by JeffJS Quote
That may be a little misleading. While it is true that there is no combo setting for the e-dials that allows two unique functions with an M type lens (or an A lens switched off of A to manual aperture control), you Can shoot in Av mode with an M lens. In my previous example of setting ISO or EV to one of the dials, that one remains active and completely usable.

No problem, I am still doubting between K-x and K-5, but very likely I first go for the K-x...
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