ND filter question?

ProgMtl · 11-07-2010, 11:02 AM

I've been reading up on the use of ND filters...I'm going to Yosemite over the Thanksgiving holiday and am wanting to get some good waterfall pictures (cotton candy type effect)...I understand the use of the ND filters but don't see much on which X to use (2X, 4X, etc.). The cost of buying all of them is a little steep for me right now (and I'm sure getting all of them may not be necessary). Can someone point me in the right direction as to which one is the best starting point?

Thanks

ProgMtl · 11-07-2010, 12:43 PM

I understand all that...just curious if I should start with a .06, .09, etc.

Andrew Lang · 11-07-2010, 12:48 PM

i started with the nd8, if you have a tripod then you will be able to nail the exposure, and really exaggerate the effect. here's one from the other day

ProgMtl · 11-07-2010, 01:01 PM

Yes I will most certainly be using a tripod...thanks for the input...nice photo BTW

ProgMtl · 11-07-2010, 01:24 PM

One last question on this...is the difference between the HOYA regular multi coated glass NDF ($23.85) and the HOYA DMC Pro1 digital multi coated glass NDF ($51.13) worth the price difference?

Don't want to sell myself short but also don't have unlimited funds to spend if it's not needed.

Thanks

Ira · 11-07-2010, 01:39 PM

Originally posted by ProgMtl

One last question on this...is the difference between the HOYA regular multi coated glass NDF ($23.85) and the HOYA DMC Pro1 digital multi coated glass NDF ($51.13) worth the price difference?

Don't want to sell myself short but also don't have unlimited funds to spend if it's not needed.

Thanks

Thanks for asking these questions:

I've been shooting for a long time, but I've never shot in situations with ND, so I'm curious to know the answers.

The whole idea of ND is to neutralize the amount of light entering the lens but to minimal detrimental effect. However:

If a polarizer slows you down 2 stops, do two polarizers slow you down 4 or 8 stops, since the effect is exponential? And has anyone tried this instead of NDs?

Ira · 11-07-2010, 01:43 PM

Another thing, Prog:

A lot of people want to go for that canned "dreamy water effect," but why not go the other way and shoot as fast as you can to freeze the water's movement so you see the sharp water droplets?

Never quite understood people's fascination with that look, but to each his own.

Me, I prefer to see the water as people would view it--sharp and clear, and not blurred and dreamy looking.

ProgMtl · 11-07-2010, 01:49 PM

I will be shooting the water as many different ways as possible...just wanted to option of doing it this way also...had 16" of snow overnight on my laster trip to Yosemite (Easter) and didn't get very many shots of anything...hoping to make up for that this Thanksgiving.

Ron Kruger · 11-07-2010, 01:53 PM

Originally posted by ProgMtl

One last question on this...is the difference between the HOYA regular multi coated glass NDF ($23.85) and the HOYA DMC Pro1 digital multi coated glass NDF ($51.13) worth the price difference?

Don't want to sell myself short but also don't have unlimited funds to spend if it's not needed.

Thanks

Very generally, but also very accurately: the cheaper the filter the more degregation of IQ. I have a few low cost and mid-range rilters I never use, because I eventually bought good ones. Buy good ones up front.
Even good filters will degrade IQ slightly, although you need to pixel peep to see it.
Whatever filters you use, when you stack them, you double the degregation.

ProgMtl · 11-07-2010, 01:55 PM

Thanks for the advice Ron...

Pauld · 11-07-2010, 06:23 PM

Originally posted by ProgMtl

The cost of buying all of them is a little steep for me right now (and I'm sure getting all of them may not be necessary).

Thanks

Check Ebay for filters. There are all kinds for all different prices. You can get sets of them for fairly decent prices.

Stratman · 11-07-2010, 08:02 PM

One thing is for sure, in my opinion, you're better to get a higher stop filter, than a lower stop one. as long as you use a tripod, you should be fine. I made the mistake of just buying a 2 stop ND, and wish I would have went 4 or higher..

photolady95 · 11-07-2010, 08:51 PM

Thanks for asking this question. I have wondered myself which one to get. And to Steve, thank you too. I now know not to buy the 2 I was looking at on KEH.

noblepa · 11-07-2010, 09:22 PM

If the cotton-candy effect on waterfalls is your primary goal, there is another way to accomplish it, other than with ND filters.

Simply use multiple exposures. As long as you're using a tripod, you should be okay. You didn't mention which camera you are using, but my K10D has multi-exposure capability, and I'm pretty sure that most Pentax cameras after it also had the capability.

You can either use the camera's builtin multi-exposure blending, or simply shoot three or five identical shots and then combine them in post-processing. Since you're shooting on a tripod and nothing in the scene changes, except the "position" of the water, you get the same smooth effect.

Andrew Lang · 11-08-2010, 03:15 PM

my filter that i shot through on the picture i posted was a 2$ nd 8 filter from e-bay, and a 40$ nd grad from cokin.... if you are just getting into it, i'd get the whole range from e-bay, and then find the ones you like and buy it in the conkin version... that's a cheap way to find out what you use... although... if you are going to yosemite, i might opt for the better more expensive one because you may not get there too often.
how's that for being non-decisive!

11-07-2010, 11:02 AM	#1
ProgMtl Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Trabuco Canyon, CA Posts: 49	ND filter question? I've been reading up on the use of ND filters...I'm going to Yosemite over the Thanksgiving holiday and am wanting to get some good waterfall pictures (cotton candy type effect)...I understand the use of the ND filters but don't see much on which X to use (2X, 4X, etc.). The cost of buying all of them is a little steep for me right now (and I'm sure getting all of them may not be necessary). Can someone point me in the right direction as to which one is the best starting point? Thanks

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11-07-2010, 12:43 PM	#2
ProgMtl Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Trabuco Canyon, CA Posts: 49 Original Poster	I understand all that...just curious if I should start with a .06, .09, etc.

11-07-2010, 12:48 PM	#3
Andrew Lang Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Thunder Bay Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 184	i started with the nd8, if you have a tripod then you will be able to nail the exposure, and really exaggerate the effect. here's one from the other day

11-07-2010, 01:01 PM	#4
ProgMtl Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Trabuco Canyon, CA Posts: 49 Original Poster	Yes I will most certainly be using a tripod...thanks for the input...nice photo BTW

11-07-2010, 01:24 PM	#5
ProgMtl Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Trabuco Canyon, CA Posts: 49 Original Poster	One last question on this...is the difference between the HOYA regular multi coated glass NDF ($23.85) and the HOYA DMC Pro1 digital multi coated glass NDF ($51.13) worth the price difference? Don't want to sell myself short but also don't have unlimited funds to spend if it's not needed. Thanks

11-07-2010, 01:39 PM	#6
Ira Inactive Account Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Coral Springs, FL Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,216	Originally posted by ProgMtl One last question on this...is the difference between the HOYA regular multi coated glass NDF ($23.85) and the HOYA DMC Pro1 digital multi coated glass NDF ($51.13) worth the price difference? Don't want to sell myself short but also don't have unlimited funds to spend if it's not needed. Thanks Thanks for asking these questions: I've been shooting for a long time, but I've never shot in situations with ND, so I'm curious to know the answers. The whole idea of ND is to neutralize the amount of light entering the lens but to minimal detrimental effect. However: If a polarizer slows you down 2 stops, do two polarizers slow you down 4 or 8 stops, since the effect is exponential? And has anyone tried this instead of NDs?

11-07-2010, 01:43 PM	#7
Ira Inactive Account Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Coral Springs, FL Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,216	Another thing, Prog: A lot of people want to go for that canned "dreamy water effect," but why not go the other way and shoot as fast as you can to freeze the water's movement so you see the sharp water droplets? Never quite understood people's fascination with that look, but to each his own. Me, I prefer to see the water as people would view it--sharp and clear, and not blurred and dreamy looking.

11-07-2010, 01:49 PM	#8
ProgMtl Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Trabuco Canyon, CA Posts: 49 Original Poster	I will be shooting the water as many different ways as possible...just wanted to option of doing it this way also...had 16" of snow overnight on my laster trip to Yosemite (Easter) and didn't get very many shots of anything...hoping to make up for that this Thanksgiving.

11-07-2010, 01:53 PM	#9
Ron Kruger Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Missouri Posts: 534	Originally posted by ProgMtl One last question on this...is the difference between the HOYA regular multi coated glass NDF ($23.85) and the HOYA DMC Pro1 digital multi coated glass NDF ($51.13) worth the price difference? Don't want to sell myself short but also don't have unlimited funds to spend if it's not needed. Thanks Very generally, but also very accurately: the cheaper the filter the more degregation of IQ. I have a few low cost and mid-range rilters I never use, because I eventually bought good ones. Buy good ones up front. Even good filters will degrade IQ slightly, although you need to pixel peep to see it. Whatever filters you use, when you stack them, you double the degregation.

11-07-2010, 01:55 PM	#10
ProgMtl Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Trabuco Canyon, CA Posts: 49 Original Poster	Thanks for the advice Ron...

11-07-2010, 06:23 PM	#11
Pauld Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Calgary, Alberta Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 507	Originally posted by ProgMtl The cost of buying all of them is a little steep for me right now (and I'm sure getting all of them may not be necessary). Thanks Check Ebay for filters. There are all kinds for all different prices. You can get sets of them for fairly decent prices.

11-07-2010, 08:02 PM	#12
Stratman Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: St Louis, Missouri U S A Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,464	One thing is for sure, in my opinion, you're better to get a higher stop filter, than a lower stop one. as long as you use a tripod, you should be fine. I made the mistake of just buying a 2 stop ND, and wish I would have went 4 or higher..

11-07-2010, 08:51 PM	#13
photolady95 Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: May 2009 Location: Cruising the forum watching his back Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,712	Thanks for asking this question. I have wondered myself which one to get. And to Steve, thank you too. I now know not to buy the 2 I was looking at on KEH.

11-07-2010, 09:22 PM	#14
noblepa Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bay Village, Ohio USA Posts: 1,142	If the cotton-candy effect on waterfalls is your primary goal, there is another way to accomplish it, other than with ND filters. Simply use multiple exposures. As long as you're using a tripod, you should be okay. You didn't mention which camera you are using, but my K10D has multi-exposure capability, and I'm pretty sure that most Pentax cameras after it also had the capability. You can either use the camera's builtin multi-exposure blending, or simply shoot three or five identical shots and then combine them in post-processing. Since you're shooting on a tripod and nothing in the scene changes, except the "position" of the water, you get the same smooth effect.

11-08-2010, 03:15 PM	#15
Andrew Lang Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Thunder Bay Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 184	my filter that i shot through on the picture i posted was a 2$ nd 8 filter from e-bay, and a 40$ nd grad from cokin.... if you are just getting into it, i'd get the whole range from e-bay, and then find the ones you like and buy it in the conkin version... that's a cheap way to find out what you use... although... if you are going to yosemite, i might opt for the better more expensive one because you may not get there too often. how's that for being non-decisive!