Confused

lamented bovine · 11-16-2010, 05:46 PM

I have a number of questions.
1. Is there a difference between in camera stabilization and lens OS?
2. I have been looking at Sigma 10-20 3.5 and 12-24 which would be the better choice?
3. Other then highr iso and video would a jump from k20d to k5 be worth my while. I intend to keep k10d I like how it handles long exp. I hate the wait with the 20d and do not like the result after turning off dfs in debug.
I am still learning this digital stuff and really like the old style wet lab and film. I miss it. Maybe I should stop being lazy and set up my darkroom once again.
Anywho would appreciate any thoughts on abe questions.

Ron Kruger · 11-16-2010, 06:12 PM

By the way, I'm old school too, and held out going digital far too long. No way I would want to go back, even though I still miss Kodachrome 25.
1. The results are the same between SR (Pentax) and IS (Canon). The difference is with SR, you have it for any lens attached, including older lenses. IS means every lens that carries it is bigger, heavier and more costly.
2. If you are talking about the Pentax 12-24, I think it is the best wide-angle zoom on the market.
3. I don't care at all about video and don't care much about high ISO, but I've got to have a K5 for many reasons beyond those. This camera has the WOW factor from many angles.

SpecialK · 11-16-2010, 06:13 PM

1. Yes. A main one is the image "looks" stabilized with in-lens versions.
2. Galleries exist for each lens. You choose. 12-24 is an excellent range, however.
3. Very likely.

lamented bovine · 11-16-2010, 06:30 PM

Thanks for reply, However i am still somewhat confused with this IS\OS thing would it not be better if stabilization is in the lens rather then camera i:e why would there be a need for the new 70-200 OS sigma for pentax, if stab is built in camera. Does this mean IS pentax is not so great? Mind you I do use IS with band shots. SpecialK, So can I asume that with an OS lens you can visually see shot stabilized in real time?
Ron, I too am not concerned with video, with K5 have you tried higher iso low light, if so what would your fankful opinion be?

hcc · 11-16-2010, 06:36 PM

On camera IS versus lens OS, there was an excellent article on a quantitative comparison between the two approaches:
Image Stabilization Test: Olympus E-520 SLR Body - SLRgear.com!

The basic outcome was: "The Olympus E-520's IS system turned in a superb performance, very much on par with the best lens-based IS systems we've looked at." In other words, the camera-IS was as good as the lens OS.

Practically, a major, major advantage of the camera IS is the greater, wider range of lenses that you can use. Lens with OS are rarer and dearer.

Lastly, if you choose an OS lens, beware that lens OS and camera IS do nto work well together. You will need to switch off one or the other.

Hope that the comment will help....

lamented bovine · 11-16-2010, 06:43 PM

Thanks Hcc, I was wondering if one would negate the other. Also I am aware that in camera IS one can use any lens, i love my tammy sp 500 mirror and acheive good results with IS.

hcarvalhoalves · 11-16-2010, 07:49 PM

Also, I know that at least on the K-5 the SR system can correct both panning and rotational movements, while lens stabilization only corrects panning.

AOShep · 11-16-2010, 08:01 PM

Lens stabilization continues to improve. So if you bought a relatively new Sigma with OS and put it on your K10D, the the Sigma lens OS will be a little better than the in camera SR. On a new body it may be the other way around. Just don't use both at the same time.

sterretje · 11-16-2010, 10:13 PM

Originally posted by lamented bovine

...
why would there be a need for the new 70-200 OS sigma for pentax, if stab is built in camera
....

It will be more expensive to make a stripped down version for Pentax as the volumes are smaller.
Alternative is to disable the OS in the lens for the K-mount models, but you will still pay for the hardware.

abacus07 · 11-17-2010, 05:33 AM

I read on a forum somewhere (m4/3's related) that one advantage of lens OS is that body IS would overheat when taking long videos. So the Panasonic (one example) had an advantage with regards to videos.

But I wouldn't think of trading IS for OS because I'm loving all of the old legacy lenses.

OT - but it's surprising to see someone else living in Taiwan in this thread. And I'm always surprised how international this forum is.

sterretje · 11-17-2010, 06:02 AM

@abacus07
Can you provide a link to that post or thread please?

Wheatfield · 11-17-2010, 07:00 AM

Originally posted by abacus07

I read on a forum somewhere (m4/3's related) that one advantage of lens OS is that body IS would overheat when taking long videos. So the Panasonic (one example) had an advantage with regards to videos.

Internet legend and complete and total bunk.
In body IS is invoked the moment the camera is turned on and stays on the entire time the camera is powered up.
IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO TURN OFF IN CAMERA SHAKE REDUCTION.

SpecialK · 11-17-2010, 11:46 AM

Originally posted by lamented bovine:

SpecialK, So can I assume that with an OS lens you can visually see shot stabilized in real time?

Yep, the image will look stationary with in-lens OS. I think there is some benefit to seeing how steady I can get my technique, however, so the advantage there is in-body.

You only use one stabilization system, not both. With many or most of the in-lens versions, you can choose a mode which will allow panning but still control the up/down movement.

Ira · 11-17-2010, 12:11 PM

As an old SLR timer, I'm always intrigued with SR discussions, since it didn't exist with 35mm, and digital offers you the cost advantages (zero) of shooting hundreds of shots.

I've had my SR on forever, but if I turn it off and based on how I shoot, I doubt I'll notice the difference.

Maybe some tests are in order, but I'm too lazy.

abacus07 · 11-17-2010, 10:15 PM

Originally posted by sterretje

@abacus07
Can you provide a link to that post or thread please?

Pretty much every thread (regarding video) at the panasonic m4/3's forum at dpreview mentioned it. But it's good to know that this isn't true although they did say that it would take 8-10mins IIRC.

Does the camera (K-x) default to IS off because they think you will be mounting it on a tripod? Or is there another reason that the default is off?

11-16-2010, 05:46 PM	#1
lamented bovine Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Brisbane Photos: Albums Posts: 480	Confused I have a number of questions. 1. Is there a difference between in camera stabilization and lens OS? 2. I have been looking at Sigma 10-20 3.5 and 12-24 which would be the better choice? 3. Other then highr iso and video would a jump from k20d to k5 be worth my while. I intend to keep k10d I like how it handles long exp. I hate the wait with the 20d and do not like the result after turning off dfs in debug. I am still learning this digital stuff and really like the old style wet lab and film. I miss it. Maybe I should stop being lazy and set up my darkroom once again. Anywho would appreciate any thoughts on abe questions.

11-17-2010, 07:00 AM	#12
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,981	Originally posted by abacus07 I read on a forum somewhere (m4/3's related) that one advantage of lens OS is that body IS would overheat when taking long videos. So the Panasonic (one example) had an advantage with regards to videos. Internet legend and complete and total bunk. In body IS is invoked the moment the camera is turned on and stays on the entire time the camera is powered up. IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO TURN OFF IN CAMERA SHAKE REDUCTION. Last edited by Wheatfield; 11-17-2010 at 11:56 AM.

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11-16-2010, 06:12 PM	#2
Ron Kruger Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Missouri Posts: 534	By the way, I'm old school too, and held out going digital far too long. No way I would want to go back, even though I still miss Kodachrome 25. 1. The results are the same between SR (Pentax) and IS (Canon). The difference is with SR, you have it for any lens attached, including older lenses. IS means every lens that carries it is bigger, heavier and more costly. 2. If you are talking about the Pentax 12-24, I think it is the best wide-angle zoom on the market. 3. I don't care at all about video and don't care much about high ISO, but I've got to have a K5 for many reasons beyond those. This camera has the WOW factor from many angles.

11-16-2010, 06:13 PM	#3
SpecialK Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: So California Photos: Gallery Posts: 16,480	1. Yes. A main one is the image "looks" stabilized with in-lens versions. 2. Galleries exist for each lens. You choose. 12-24 is an excellent range, however. 3. Very likely.

11-16-2010, 06:30 PM	#4
lamented bovine Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Brisbane Photos: Albums Posts: 480 Original Poster	Thanks for reply, However i am still somewhat confused with this IS\OS thing would it not be better if stabilization is in the lens rather then camera i:e why would there be a need for the new 70-200 OS sigma for pentax, if stab is built in camera. Does this mean IS pentax is not so great? Mind you I do use IS with band shots. SpecialK, So can I asume that with an OS lens you can visually see shot stabilized in real time? Ron, I too am not concerned with video, with K5 have you tried higher iso low light, if so what would your fankful opinion be?

11-16-2010, 06:36 PM	#5
hcc Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Brisbane, Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,002	On camera IS versus lens OS, there was an excellent article on a quantitative comparison between the two approaches: Image Stabilization Test: Olympus E-520 SLR Body - SLRgear.com! The basic outcome was: "The Olympus E-520's IS system turned in a superb performance, very much on par with the best lens-based IS systems we've looked at." In other words, the camera-IS was as good as the lens OS. Practically, a major, major advantage of the camera IS is the greater, wider range of lenses that you can use. Lens with OS are rarer and dearer. Lastly, if you choose an OS lens, beware that lens OS and camera IS do nto work well together. You will need to switch off one or the other. Hope that the comment will help....

11-16-2010, 06:43 PM	#6
lamented bovine Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Brisbane Photos: Albums Posts: 480 Original Poster	Thanks Hcc, I was wondering if one would negate the other. Also I am aware that in camera IS one can use any lens, i love my tammy sp 500 mirror and acheive good results with IS.

11-16-2010, 07:49 PM	#7
hcarvalhoalves Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: São Paulo, Brazil Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,019	Also, I know that at least on the K-5 the SR system can correct both panning and rotational movements, while lens stabilization only corrects panning.

11-16-2010, 08:01 PM	#8
AOShep Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Eastern PA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 293	Lens stabilization continues to improve. So if you bought a relatively new Sigma with OS and put it on your K10D, the the Sigma lens OS will be a little better than the in camera SR. On a new body it may be the other way around. Just don't use both at the same time.

11-16-2010, 10:13 PM	#9
sterretje Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Roodepoort, South Africa Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,561	Originally posted by lamented bovine ... why would there be a need for the new 70-200 OS sigma for pentax, if stab is built in camera .... It will be more expensive to make a stripped down version for Pentax as the volumes are smaller. Alternative is to disable the OS in the lens for the K-mount models, but you will still pay for the hardware.

11-17-2010, 05:33 AM	#10
abacus07 Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Taiwan Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,075	I read on a forum somewhere (m4/3's related) that one advantage of lens OS is that body IS would overheat when taking long videos. So the Panasonic (one example) had an advantage with regards to videos. But I wouldn't think of trading IS for OS because I'm loving all of the old legacy lenses. OT - but it's surprising to see someone else living in Taiwan in this thread. And I'm always surprised how international this forum is.

11-17-2010, 06:02 AM	#11
sterretje Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Roodepoort, South Africa Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,561	@abacus07 Can you provide a link to that post or thread please?

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11-17-2010, 11:46 AM	#13
SpecialK Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: So California Photos: Gallery Posts: 16,480	Originally posted by lamented bovine: SpecialK, So can I assume that with an OS lens you can visually see shot stabilized in real time? Yep, the image will look stationary with in-lens OS. I think there is some benefit to seeing how steady I can get my technique, however, so the advantage there is in-body. You only use one stabilization system, not both. With many or most of the in-lens versions, you can choose a mode which will allow panning but still control the up/down movement.

11-17-2010, 12:11 PM	#14
Ira Inactive Account Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Coral Springs, FL Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,216	As an old SLR timer, I'm always intrigued with SR discussions, since it didn't exist with 35mm, and digital offers you the cost advantages (zero) of shooting hundreds of shots. I've had my SR on forever, but if I turn it off and based on how I shoot, I doubt I'll notice the difference. Maybe some tests are in order, but I'm too lazy.

11-17-2010, 10:15 PM	#15
abacus07 Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Taiwan Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,075	Originally posted by sterretje @abacus07 Can you provide a link to that post or thread please? Pretty much every thread (regarding video) at the panasonic m4/3's forum at dpreview mentioned it. But it's good to know that this isn't true although they did say that it would take 8-10mins IIRC. Does the camera (K-x) default to IS off because they think you will be mounting it on a tripod? Or is there another reason that the default is off?