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11-19-2010, 12:28 AM   #1
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K1000 - Novice Needs Help Please

Hello all, I am here looking for either a simple explanation or a reference point.

I know nothing about using a SLR camera. The one I have, I came across at Goodwill and decided for the price($24.00), I should give it a shot.

So far I have had mixed results, when I finally think I know what im doing, the pictures turn out horrible.

Here's what I'm working with:
  1. Asahi Pentax K1000(according to your speadsheet, its the 2nd production model)
  2. SMC Pentax-M 1:1.4 50mm Lens
  3. Tamron UV 49mm
  4. Focal MC Auto 1:2.8 f=135mm
  5. Hoya 52mm SKYLIGHT(1B)
  6. Focal MC 2x Converter
  7. Focal M500T-Zoom

Here are some of the pictures i have taken so far: Flickr: dkinkaid's stuff tagged with asahi
For the most part, those turned out ok...
Flickr: dkinkaid's stuff tagged with usingflash
Those I took using the flash...
Flickr: dkinkaid's stuff tagged with chess
These I took today...and I'm not happy with any of them...

Everything I have done so far has been in trial and error. I have the user manual for the camera, and I think using the light meter is the way to go. Or at least thats what I thought. All the chess pictures I took I made sure the meter was set in the middle, and I shot my pictures. The first link I have there I did the same thing, really the only difference was the lighting. And I do understand that is important, so I guess really where I'm getting hung up is on the changing the dial(22 16 11 8 5.6 4 2.8 2 1.4).

Also another thing I should point out is that for the first two links, I used 800 film, and the last set I used 400 film. I did set the ASA dial to match that as well.

As far as shutter speed is concerned, I simply kept adjusting it until the light meter was in the middle.

Here is what I am trying to accomplish:
I really just want to take pictures of still objects, and my not so still children. We have a decent digital camera but I like the learning process involved with using this camera, and I feel like the pictures just "feel" better, if that makes sense.
I would like a better understanding of the film, and the lenses that I have.
And the dial that lets in more or less light also seems to be hanging me up.
How much should I rely on the light meter?
Does the ASA always have to match the film number?

I know this is a lot for my first post here, and I apologize. I have been reading numerous sites and have burned through 5 rolls of film in 4 days. The film isnt the issue, my frustration is coming from not knowing why some pictures out perfect and some just fail.

Thank you in advance to anyone who braves the task of trying to help me. I am a quick learner and shouldnt bug you too much once I know what Im doing.

Any points of reference or guides you can point me to would also be great help. Thank you again, and thanks for this wonderful site.

11-19-2010, 05:15 AM   #2
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First off, you got a steal! If you should ever decide that this experiment isn't working out, you ought to be able to triple or quadruple your investment just by selling your 50mm f1.4 lens. What is it about your pictures that you're not liking? Too dark? Too fuzzy? Not enough of the picture in focus? Color balance? If you could be a bit more specific, it would help. Be aware that shooting indoors is one of the toughest challenges that you can throw at a film camera. The light is pretty low (even though it may not seem like it to the naked eye), which means wide apertures and/or slow shutter speeds. Oh...and yes, you should use your meter. But you need to understand what it's seeing. Meters try to make everything gray. So, if you're shooting something against a white wall, for example, the meter is going to tell you to cut down your exposure to a point where the white wall becomes gray. Then, you'll get your pictures back and wonder why they're so dark.
11-19-2010, 06:47 AM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by TaoMaas Quote
First off, you got a steal! If you should ever decide that this experiment isn't working out, you ought to be able to triple or quadruple your investment just by selling your 50mm f1.4 lens.
Interesting, I probably wont think about selling any of it for awhile, buts that good to know. I was actually thinking about buying another lens for it, are they all universal? Will any lens fit this camera?

QuoteOriginally posted by TaoMaas Quote
What is it about your pictures that you're not liking? Too dark? Too fuzzy? Not enough of the picture in focus? Color balance? If you could be a bit more specific, it would help.
The colors seem to be washed out, and the pictures look grainy in some shots. Am I too close? The pictures with the flash look really washed out, I'm pretty sure thats due to being too close in most of the shots. And when should I use a flash? When there is no light at all or even if there is minimal light? Is there a happy medium?

QuoteOriginally posted by TaoMaas Quote
Be aware that shooting indoors is one of the toughest challenges that you can throw at a film camera. The light is pretty low (even though it may not seem like it to the naked eye), which means wide apertures and/or slow shutter speeds.
This helps explain things a lot. I havent really taken any pictures outside yet. Would i use the flash outside?

QuoteOriginally posted by TaoMaas Quote
Oh...and yes, you should use your meter. But you need to understand what it's seeing. Meters try to make everything gray. So, if you're shooting something against a white wall, for example, the meter is going to tell you to cut down your exposure to a point where the white wall becomes gray. Then, you'll get your pictures back and wonder why they're so dark.
So as far indoors are concerned, should i be shooting for pictures with bright backgrounds? And what about the ASA settings and the film, do they need to match? Or can these settings be played with to get different results? Should I ever not trust the meter? For example: Picture looks fine in view finder, but meter says it is going to be over exposed....do I change settings or take the picture?

Also one more thing, when using the flash, it says to use 1/60 speed, which triggers the hotshoe....is that they only way to use this flash? I guess it is huh? I mean what other way would the flash trigger? There is no timer on it.


Thanks for your reply by the way. The level of help and understanding here is amazing.

Oh and one more thing The other lens's? I have experimented with the Converter and the 135mm one, and it seems no matter what I do or what i point at, the meter gives no reading. I havent taken any pictures with this lens because of that. Im assuming the converter just allows for closer shots, or more zoom, but i really dont know. And those little lens's - 49mm and the 52mm, what would i use those for?
11-19-2010, 06:52 AM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by altopiet Quote
If I may ask why do you use such high ASA? Have you tried ASA200? If I remember correctly, my K1000 had a red X at 1/60 shutter speed, indicating the shutter speed to be used with a flash, what shutter speed did you use?
I am no pro and it has been a long time since I used my K1000. I remember fixing the ASA at value indicated on the film, then setting shutter speed to 1/125, for normal situations, and adjusting f stop untill the light meter was in the middle. If the light was to low, I decreased shutter speed untill light meter was in the middle. If the light was to low to get the light meter in the middle, using the shutter speed and f stop, the only other option was flash. If the K1000's light meter is in order your shots should be all right
In the manual for the camera, it states to set the ASA to match the film, i assume the number on the film (Kodak 800 or 400) is the ASA number? As far as why i chose that film is concerned, the 800 film said "all purpose" and well the 400 i just bought was to experiment with. I will have to pick up some 200 then. Also is there somewhere you can get lower and higher ASA film? I see the dial goes down to 20 and all the way up to 3200. Is this merely for different film effects or is there actually film with these settings?

Thanks you for your reply.

11-19-2010, 06:57 AM - 2 Likes   #5
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The 50 1.4 is excellent for indoor shooting. As long as I have decent indoor lighting, like 2 bulbs on in a room, I am able to shoot well enough.

How are you getting your images onto the computer? do you go to a shop and have them scan the negatives onto the PC or do you simply scan them in?


QuoteQuote:
And the dial that lets in more or less light also seems to be hanging me up.
The aperture ring. The more light you let in (lower number), the more everything around your focused object becomes out of focused. At 1.4 you get a really pleasant blur at every level other than the focused object.

QuoteQuote:
How much should I rely on the light meter?
Well, if it were me, i'm not quite sure how I would be able to take a shot without relying on it when using manual mode or a manual camera. I would think of myself very highly if I knew my lenses so well as to know the proper aperture setting / shutter / iso combination for any given situation.

QuoteQuote:
Does the ASA always have to match the film number?
It will still work. The camera isn't smart enough to say 'hey, you set me to the wrong iso setting'. The resulting shots should be interesting however.

I'm not 100% on this but I think what happens is when you set the ISO on the camera, the exposure meter will re-calibrate for the iso setting you chose. The higher the iso, the less light required to take a shot (more noise though), thus anytime the iso is changed on the camera the exposure meter has to compensate for that change.

So, if I am right, a film that is iso 200 and a camera set to 400 will mean, at proper exposure according to the camera (dial in the middle) the resulting image will be an underexposed shot. This is because iso 200 film is slower than 400, and the camera is providing you an exposure reasing based on the faster film, which requires less light.


QuoteQuote:
i assume the number on the film (Kodak 800 or 400) is the ASA number?
Yes

QuoteQuote:
As far as why i chose that film is concerned, the 800 film said "all purpose" and well the 400 i just bought was to experiment with.
You're fine, especially shooting indoors. As a knee-jerk amature/beginner in the SLR world myself, there is no way I would choose an ISO 200 film when shooting indoors. I would go 400 or 800.
(atleast if i intend to shoot by hand and not on a tripod)
QuoteQuote:
Also is there somewhere you can get lower and higher ASA film?
Online shops. B&H depot to name an affiliate of this site. If you have a dedicated camera shop near you probably there too. My grocery store and local pharms only sell 800, 400 if I am lucky to find it and certainly no B&W film.

QuoteQuote:
I see the dial goes down to 20 and all the way up to 3200. Is this merely for different film effects or is there actually film with these settings?
I asked the same questions not too long ago when I started playing with our k1000 sitting in a closet. The answer, as well as a link to wikipedia, was very helpful:
ISO/ASA 20-3200 on k1000
Wikipedia: film speed

Allow me to provide you another link. This "12-week" course was very helpful for me in understanding the basics of slrs, shooting etc. It was the first thing I read before reading more in depth articles. Each 'week' is a different topic about the basics, what aperture is and how to use it, same for shutter speed, iso, composition etc. Found it on a google search:

Two peas in a bucket: 12 Weeks to Better Photos
week 1 - aperture basic training
week 2 - ISO and shutter speed
week 3 - the color of light
week 4 - flash
week 5 - composition
week 6 - shooting indoors
week 7 - shooting outdoors
week 8 - on the go
week 9 - portraits
week 10 - landscapes
week 11 - your daily environment
week 12 - camera accessories

As I said, just consider these links a crash course in the basics. It helped me to save these pdfs and also make a printed copy so I can read while I played.

If you want a very in-depth article on photography then try this:
Basic Photographic Techniques (U.S. Navy training manual)

I think I found that link by a reference in a thread at this site too; it's very long and very detailed and it doesn't go into math which I know a lot of people are intimidated by.

Last edited by Capslock118; 11-19-2010 at 07:28 AM.
11-19-2010, 07:27 AM - 1 Like   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by dkinkaid Quote
Originally posted by altopiet*
If I may ask why do you use such high ASA? Have you tried ASA200? If I remember correctly, my K1000 had a red X at 1/60 shutter speed, indicating the shutter speed to be used with a flash, what shutter speed did you use?
I am no pro and it has been a long time since I used my K1000. I remember fixing the ASA at value indicated on the film, then setting shutter speed to 1/125, for normal situations, and adjusting f stop untill the light meter was in the middle. If the light was to low, I decreased shutter speed untill light meter was in the middle. If the light was to low to get the light meter in the middle, using the shutter speed and f stop, the only other option was flash. If the K1000's light meter is in order your shots should be all right
In the manual for the camera, it states to set the ASA to match the film, i assume the number on the film (Kodak 800 or 400) is the ASA number? As far as why i chose that film is concerned, the 800 film said "all purpose" and well the 400 i just bought was to experiment with. I will have to pick up some 200 then. Also is there somewhere you can get lower and higher ASA film? I see the dial goes down to 20 and all the way up to 3200. Is this merely for different film effects or is there actually film with these settings?

Thanks you for your reply.
Sorry, deleted my original reply by accident, must be age. lol

First of all if you use low ASA=less noise in ISO on DSLR terms, or less grainy. Higher ASA= more grain, but can be used in lower light. I am sure the pro's will be able to change ASA for special effects etc, but for normal shooting, I would not change ASA from that indicated on the film, rather play around with the aperture and shutter speed, to get the result you want, always keeping the light meter in mind.
11-19-2010, 07:45 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by Capslock118 Quote
How are you getting your images onto the computer? do you go to a shop and have them scan the negatives onto the PC or do you simply scan them in?
Yes I have been taking the film to my local Walgreens, my wife has been suggesting I try a dedicated photo shop, she doesnt like the way they process her digital pictures. So far its hard to tell if they are messing my pictures up, as I dont know if its me or them..lol


QuoteOriginally posted by Capslock118 Quote
The aperture ring. The more light you let in (lower number), the more everything around your focused object becomes out of focused. At 1.4 you get a really pleasant blur at every level other than the focused object.
This helps a lot, thank you.

QuoteOriginally posted by Capslock118 Quote
I'm not 100% on this but I think what happens is when you set the ISO on the camera, the exposure meter will re-calibrate for the iso setting you chose. The higher the iso, the less light required to take a shot (more noise though), thus anytime the iso is changed on the camera the exposure meter has to compensate for that change.

So, if I am right, a film that is iso 200 and a camera set to 400 will mean, at proper exposure according to the camera (dial in the middle) the resulting image will be an underexposed shot. This is because iso 200 film is slower than 400, and the camera is providing you an exposure reasing based on the faster film, which requires less light.
Ok great, I will definitely stick with matching the ASA settings.

QuoteOriginally posted by Capslock118 Quote
I asked the same questions not too long ago when I started playing with our k1000 sitting in a closet. The answer, as well as a link to wikipedia, was very helpful:
ISO/ASA 20-3200 on k1000
Wikipedia: film speed

Allow me to provide you another link. This "12-week" course was very helpful for me in understanding the basics of slrs, shooting etc. It was the first thing I read before reading more in depth articles. Each 'week' is a different topic about the basics, what aperture is and how to use it, same for shutter speed, iso, composition etc. Found it on a google search:

Two peas in a bucket: 12 Weeks to Better Photos
week 1 - aperture basic training
week 2 - ISO and shutter speed
week 3 - the color of light
week 4 - flash
week 5 - composition
week 6 - shooting indoors
week 7 - shooting outdoors
week 8 - on the go
week 9 - portraits
week 10 - landscapes
week 11 - your daily environment
week 12 - camera accessories

As I said, just consider these links a crash course in the basics. It helped me to save these pdfs and also make a printed copy so I can read while I played.

If you want a very in-depth article on photography then try this:
Basic Photographic Techniques (U.S. Navy training manual)

I think I found that link by a reference in a thread at this site too; it's very long and very detailed and it doesn't go into math which I know a lot of people are intimidated by.
Very awesome links, thank you very much. I will be printing those pda's for sure.

QuoteOriginally posted by altopiet Quote
Sorry, deleted my original reply by accident, must be age. lol

First of all if you use low ASA=less noise in ISO on DSLR terms, or less grainy. Higher ASA= more grain, but can be used in lower light. I am sure the pro's will be able to change ASA for special effects etc, but for normal shooting, I would not change ASA from that indicated on the film, rather play around with the aperture and shutter speed, to get the result you want, always keeping the light meter in mind.
Yea i came back and was looking for your post, i was thinking i was crazy..lol....and thanks for the explanation.

Again i just want to say thank you....all of you that have replied so far have been extremely helpful.
11-19-2010, 08:06 AM - 1 Like   #8
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Wow you really got a steal,
the iso 800 - not really all purpose if you shoot outdoors on a sunny day you will be overexposed even if you stop down (f22) and go iso 1000 it will be pushing it (then you'll run into other issues with the refraction. Ideally you want to shoot f 8 -f11 on these lenses for the sharpest pictures. or for portrait open up to soften the backgrounds (the 135 will be an excellent portrait lens)
Daylight i shoot ISO 100 first, but will use 400
you could also google sunny f16. it's a way of shooting without a meter (i frequently shoot sunny f 16 - if you have an iphone there is even an app for it that is pretty accurate)
Flash is tough, look at the back of your flash it should have an exposure guide that links the iso and f stop to feet from the subject.
make sure you have the shutter set to 1/60 the sync speed on the k1000 as well.

You've got just about the perfect bieginner camera - a lot of photography course recommend this camera specifically, currently the k1000 with that 50 f1.4 would easily sell for $150 + in any city with a college offering film courses

As for what lenses look at the lens database, easiest first step will be any k or m or A series lens
and down the road if you buy a digital all the lenses you own will work with any pentax body (and can be adapted to m4/3 for certain)

have fun on the journey, and if you get into it you may want to consider shooting black and white film and processing yourself it's dead easy

11-19-2010, 08:20 AM - 1 Like   #9
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The K-1000 is a very nice, durable camera. As others have said, you got a steal. Usually, when you find a K-1000, if it has a lens at all, it is the much less desirable 50mm, f/2 version. The M-50, f/1.4 sells on eBay for around $100, by itself.

I highly recommend the book "Understanding Exposure" by Bryan Peterson. The later editions concentrate on digital cameras, for obvious reasons, but the principles of exposure are the same. He also explains the effect that different apertures have on the depth-of-field, and why you choose one shutter speed/aperture combination over another, equivalent combination. Check your local public library. If they don't have it, you can get it from Amazon.

Any k-mount lens, from any manufacturer should work on your k-1000, even autofocus lenses, as long as they have an aperture ring. Many new AF lenses do not have a manual aperture ring. The camera must be able to set the aperture electrically, something your K-1000 can not do. Obviously, AF lenses will have to be manually focused, but they will still work.
11-19-2010, 09:29 AM - 1 Like   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by dkinkaid Quote
Also one more thing, when using the flash, it says to use 1/60 speed, which triggers the hotshoe....is that they only way to use this flash? I guess it is huh? I mean what other way would the flash trigger? There is no timer on it.

Your flash will trigger regardless of what shutter speed you set, but it may not always work right. Here's a basic explanation of why that is: Your shutter is made up of two curtains. The first curtain is covering up the film and keeping it from being exposed until you hit the shutter release. When you push the shutter release, the first curtain moves out of the way, allows light to reach the film, then the second curtain comes in and covers the film back up. On extremely short shutter speeds, your shutter acts somewhat like a scanner for a computer. The second curtain starts moving across before the first curtain is completely out of the way. So your film gets exposed by a slit between the first and second curtains that moves across the face of the film. The faster the shutter speed, the more narrow the slit. That 1/60 mark on your camera is telling you the fastest shutter speed where the first curtain has cleared the film plane, but the second curtain hasn't yet started. Your flash is of extremely short duration, but it needs at least a fraction of a second when both shutters are clear of the frame so that it can flash the film and expose it properly. So, you can use a shutter speed SLOWER than 1/60 and your flash will expose properly. But if you go faster than 1/60, then you run the risk of of various portions of your picture being covered up by the two curtains of your shutter because there's never a point where both curtains are out of the way and the flash can expose the full frame of film. Make sense?
11-19-2010, 11:55 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by TaoMaas Quote
Your flash will trigger regardless of what shutter speed you set, but it may not always work right. Here's a basic explanation of why that is: Your shutter is made up of two curtains. The first curtain is covering up the film and keeping it from being exposed until you hit the shutter release. When you push the shutter release, the first curtain moves out of the way, allows light to reach the film, then the second curtain comes in and covers the film back up. On extremely short shutter speeds, your shutter acts somewhat like a scanner for a computer. The second curtain starts moving across before the first curtain is completely out of the way. So your film gets exposed by a slit between the first and second curtains that moves across the face of the film. The faster the shutter speed, the more narrow the slit. That 1/60 mark on your camera is telling you the fastest shutter speed where the first curtain has cleared the film plane, but the second curtain hasn't yet started. Your flash is of extremely short duration, but it needs at least a fraction of a second when both shutters are clear of the frame so that it can flash the film and expose it properly. So, you can use a shutter speed SLOWER than 1/60 and your flash will expose properly. But if you go faster than 1/60, then you run the risk of of various portions of your picture being covered up by the two curtains of your shutter because there's never a point where both curtains are out of the way and the flash can expose the full frame of film. Make sense?
yes, that makes perfect sense...thank you...

i know its only been less than a day since i made this post, but i seriously have learned a ton of information from you guys. It is truly appreciated.

Right now i am waiting on walgreens to finish developing 2 rolls i just took. Im anxious to see how they turn out, i will share when i get them.
11-19-2010, 01:46 PM   #12
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Here are the results of my new found knowledge: Flickr: dkinkaid's stuff tagged with limekilnpark

Im pretty happy with the way most of these pictures turned out...and it really allowed me to practice what i've learned so far.

This really is a rewarding hobby...thank you all for your assistance...and i look forward to spending my time here at this site, hopefully i will be able to help someone else along the way.
11-19-2010, 01:58 PM   #13
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Looks good, some seem overexposed but what do I know.

So...just because i'm an idiot:

QuoteQuote:
Yes I have been taking the film to my local Walgreens, my wife has been suggesting I try a dedicated photo shop, she doesnt like the way they process her digital pictures. So far its hard to tell if they are messing my pictures up, as I dont know if its me or them..lol
And walgreens puts them onto a cd? do they give you prints as well or one or the other? what format are they saved in?
11-19-2010, 02:04 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by Capslock118 Quote
Looks good, some seem overexposed but what do I know.

So...just because i'm an idiot:



And walgreens puts them onto a cd? do they give you prints as well or one or the other? what format are they saved in?
yes walgreens will put them on a disk, .jpg format (1800 x 1215)...6.50 just for the disk, i dont get any prints at all...

and yes i agree some are def overexposed, but i will solve that as time goes by...
11-19-2010, 02:48 PM   #15
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One of the problems with shooting print film is that sometimes whoever is doing the printing tries to "help" your pics. For example, if your negatives are too dark, they may lighten them up when they make the prints or scans. If you don't know that they're doing this, it can make it really hard to figure out whether or not you've got a problem with your camera. If it IS your camera that's over-exposing things, the good news is that it looks like it's doing it pretty consistantly. If that's the case, then this would be an instance where you might want to change the ASA setting on your camera and make it think there's faster film loaded than there really is. That way, your meter will give it a little less exposure, which will put you back down to where you really need to be. Say, if you're shooting ASA 400 film, you might set your camera to ASA 600. Or not. One of the beautiful things about having your negatives scanned to disc is that you can fix some of these things after-the-fact on the computer.
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