Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
12-24-2010, 08:45 AM   #1
New Member




Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 13
best bet for HDR Photos K-7, K-R, or K-X ?

Hello all I am new to the forum and professional photography. I have been taking bracketed photos from a cybershot point and shoot getting pretty amazing results so now I have decided to step it up and get into something on the prosumer level.

I have been reading reviews and forums including several threads on this site about 20 hours of research and have ruled out Canon D60 & Nikon D90 due to low AEB dynamic range shorter steps.

I have decided to go Pentax for the obvious (more features, WR) but now need some accurate feedback on the High ISO debate for the K-7 vs K-X & R as it relates to low light HDR.

I plan to shoot HDR mostly on a tripod for sunrise, sunset, moon, nightscape I live on the ocean and play in the elements.

I really need some closure on the AEB settings for these cameras so many sites have the specs reporting different values I dont know who to believe. Which of these Pentax cameras has the best offerings for AEB specifically to shoot HDR. K-5 is out of budget for those wondering.

lastly what wide angle lense should i get for optimal hdr results?

thanks everyone in advance I have the k-7 in the cart just waiting to pull the trigger.

12-24-2010, 08:48 AM   #2
Administrator
Site Webmaster
Adam's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Arizona
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 43,143
Any camera is good if you plan on manually processing your HDR's- however, for in-camera HDR, both the K-r and K-5 are superior to the older bodies as they feature auto-alignment (which really works- see the K-r review). Hope this helps!

The K-7/K-5 can do +- 5EV bracketing, while the others can only do +- 3EV. Sounds like the K-7 might be the one for you if you need the added manual controls.

Adam
PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide | Site Help | My Photography)



PentaxForums.com's high server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover those costs by donating. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

12-24-2010, 11:48 AM   #3
New Member




Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 13
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
Any camera is good if you plan on manually processing your HDR's- however, for in-camera HDR, both the K-r and K-5 are superior to the older bodies as they feature auto-alignment (which really works- see the K-r review). Hope this helps!

The K-7/K-5 can do +- 5EV bracketing, while the others can only do +- 3EV. Sounds like the K-7 might be the one for you if you need the added manual controls.
Thanks for your input Adam,

I plan to process all HDR photos manually the built in feature was just a bonus to me.

I guess I am not so concerned with in-camera HDR processing as much as being able to shoot in low light but you brought something to my attention I didn't realize the K-7 doesn't have auto alignment for that HDR in-camera feature didnt know that seems pretty important if your going o use it. K-r review was helpful thanks for sharing that link.

I also want to make sure that I have ample EV spacing I cant determine which is best 3 steps at 3 ev spacing or 5 steps at 2 ev spacing or is the total range most important for HDR k-7 having 8 ev vs k-x & r having 6 ev range.

based on what i see i would then agree the K-7 is the best fit for me even with High Iso issues.

Any thoughts on lenses for wide angle landscapes? high budget low budget? thanks
12-24-2010, 12:31 PM   #4
Veteran Member




Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Fife, Scotland
Posts: 834
What ISO do you expect to be using? Up to ISO 400 the K7 is fine, above that noise starts to show. The K5 produces less noise by some distance - see www.dpreview.com for the gory details for both cameras, and (I think) for the K-r and K-x.

12-24-2010, 05:41 PM   #5
New Member




Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 13
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by cats_five Quote
What ISO do you expect to be using? Up to ISO 400 the K7 is fine, above that noise starts to show. The K5 produces less noise by some distance - see www.dpreview.com for the gory details for both cameras, and (I think) for the K-r and K-x.
just reading a little more I would think I would be fine at an ISO of 100-300 in most cases since I am going to use a tripod most the time. I guess with the k-7 i can make up for iso with good lens and post processing if it became a problem.
12-24-2010, 11:37 PM   #6
hcc
Pentaxian
hcc's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 3,531
QuoteOriginally posted by pixelhunter Quote
just reading a little more I would think I would be fine at an ISO of 100-300 in most cases since I am going to use a tripod most the time. I guess with the k-7 i can make up for iso with good lens and post processing if it became a problem.
If you works at ISO 100-300, the K-7 will give you as good image quality at K-x, K-r and K-5. It has also slightly more resolution than the K-x/K-r (14 Mp vs 12 Mp). In addition the K-7's view finder, body and handling is leading edge: better than the K-x/K-r in my opinion and same as K-5.
12-31-2010, 08:08 PM - 1 Like   #7
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Tumbleweed, Arizona
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 5,107
I have been using my K20 for very similar types of imagery. Ambient low light and night landscapes with a fair amount of bracketing. I have limited myself to +/- 1.5 ev as a maximum, rather than +/- 2 ev that the camera is capable of. This is essentially due to noise, when I push to the wider range. I shoot at ISO 100, 99% of the time. Essentially I wind up with extended shutter times.

The Kx and Kr have I believe a low ISO of 200. Also, one of the reasons why I upgraded from my K100 was the inability to have the 2 second mirror up and bracketing enabled at the same time, because they were all options on the same menu. I believe that this is still the case for the Kx and Kr. Also, the Kx/r only have IR based shutter releases and does not support the wire shutter releases that I find easier to use.

The K7 uses the same sensor as the K20, so you will in all likelihood experience the same limitations.

The K5, in my opinion would be the optimal body. First it can use ISO 80, it has a very clean sensor (from what I have seen), and the sensor has the widest dynamic range available at something like 14 stops. There is an excellent thread here by a gentleman new to Pentax who is one of the best around.....I use 4 lenses for this, for a variety of reasons.
  • DA 10-17 FE - With this lens I can essentially get 180 degree coverage. Great for landscapes where the bend (distortion) can be tolerated. One possible drawback is this advantage. At 10mm (~180 degree coverage), each pixel has a rather large area to represent.
  • DA 12-24 - This is one of my favorite lens. I like to shoot it in portrait, and stitch. Its very sharp, and does a great job, despite being an f4 lens. I am usually at f5.6 to f8 for the sharpness, which just extends my shutter time at ISO 100. At the top end there is an overlap with the 16-45, essentially at about 20mm this lens starts to drop off in sharpness.
  • DA 16-45 - This lens essentially takes over for the 12-24 at about 20mm. This lens in the lower range is sharper than the 12-24 at its top of the range. Its still f4 - its a constant aperture lens (same as the 12-24).
  • FA 31 Ltd - This is my other most favorite lens. It is not as wide, but its clarity and sharpness are wonderful. I also like to shoot it in portrait, and stitch. At night, the lights are pin points compared to the 10-17's "smudges". The difference being the amount of area each pixel represents.
There is one more lens that I have, however not had the opportunity to use as of yet. Its a Contax Carl Zeiss 28mm f2.8 Distagon T* - a 20 year old lens, but currently it has a C/Y mount. I have a K mount currently stuck in Customs coming my way, so that I can have the mount changed. This lens is suppose to have all the characteristics of the 31 Ltd, and I was able to pick it up for a pretty reasonable price. I have some high expectations for it.

One last item - The K5, I have read, enables you to disable DFS (Dark Frame Subtraction). On the K7 you cant on any shutter time over I think 8 to 10 seconds. This just elongates the times especially for 5 frame brackets, where for each frame you can have the 1) 2 second mirror up, 2) the exposure of what ever duration, and 3) the DFS with the same duration as the image itself.


Last edited by interested_observer; 12-31-2010 at 08:25 PM.
01-01-2011, 05:26 AM   #8
New Member




Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 13
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by hcc Quote
If you works at ISO 100-300, the K-7 will give you as good image quality at K-x, K-r and K-5. It has also slightly more resolution than the K-x/K-r (14 Mp vs 12 Mp). In addition the K-7's view finder, body and handling is leading edge: better than the K-x/K-r in my opinion and same as K-5.
thanks for your comments

01-01-2011, 05:33 AM   #9
New Member




Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 13
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by interested_observer Quote
I have been using my K20 for very similar types of imagery. Ambient low light and night landscapes with a fair amount of bracketing. I have limited myself to +/- 1.5 ev as a maximum, rather than +/- 2 ev that the camera is capable of. This is essentially due to noise, when I push to the wider range. I shoot at ISO 100, 99% of the time. Essentially I wind up with extended shutter times.

The Kx and Kr have I believe a low ISO of 200. Also, one of the reasons why I upgraded from my K100 was the inability to have the 2 second mirror up and bracketing enabled at the same time, because they were all options on the same menu. I believe that this is still the case for the Kx and Kr. Also, the Kx/r only have IR based shutter releases and does not support the wire shutter releases that I find easier to use.

The K7 uses the same sensor as the K20, so you will in all likelihood experience the same limitations.

The K5, in my opinion would be the optimal body. First it can use ISO 80, it has a very clean sensor (from what I have seen), and the sensor has the widest dynamic range available at something like 14 stops. There is an excellent thread here by a gentleman new to Pentax who is one of the best around.....I use 4 lenses for this, for a variety of reasons.
  • DA 10-17 FE - With this lens I can essentially get 180 degree coverage. Great for landscapes where the bend (distortion) can be tolerated. One possible drawback is this advantage. At 10mm (~180 degree coverage), each pixel has a rather large area to represent.
  • DA 12-24 - This is one of my favorite lens. I like to shoot it in portrait, and stitch. Its very sharp, and does a great job, despite being an f4 lens. I am usually at f5.6 to f8 for the sharpness, which just extends my shutter time at ISO 100. At the top end there is an overlap with the 16-45, essentially at about 20mm this lens starts to drop off in sharpness.
  • DA 16-45 - This lens essentially takes over for the 12-24 at about 20mm. This lens in the lower range is sharper than the 12-24 at its top of the range. Its still f4 - its a constant aperture lens (same as the 12-24).
  • FA 31 Ltd - This is my other most favorite lens. It is not as wide, but its clarity and sharpness are wonderful. I also like to shoot it in portrait, and stitch. At night, the lights are pin points compared to the 10-17's "smudges". The difference being the amount of area each pixel represents.
There is one more lens that I have, however not had the opportunity to use as of yet. Its a Contax Carl Zeiss 28mm f2.8 Distagon T* - a 20 year old lens, but currently it has a C/Y mount. I have a K mount currently stuck in Customs coming my way, so that I can have the mount changed. This lens is suppose to have all the characteristics of the 31 Ltd, and I was able to pick it up for a pretty reasonable price. I have some high expectations for it.

One last item - The K5, I have read, enables you to disable DFS (Dark Frame Subtraction). On the K7 you cant on any shutter time over I think 8 to 10 seconds. This just elongates the times especially for 5 frame brackets, where for each frame you can have the 1) 2 second mirror up, 2) the exposure of what ever duration, and 3) the DFS with the same duration as the image itself.

Thats good insight thanks very much. I still haven't made a decision id love to jump on the k-5 but too expensive. Thanks for giving your input on lenses ill have to check out the DA 10-17 FE
01-01-2011, 07:23 AM   #10
Senior Member




Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Blacksburg, VA
Photos: Albums
Posts: 284
I have a K7 use it for HDR quite a lot. Wonderful camera for it.

I would mention that shooting any HDR above ISO100 is generally a bad idea. The HDR process enhances noise in any camera.
01-01-2011, 09:12 AM   #11
Veteran Member
Docrwm's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Somewhere in the Southern US
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 11,275
Just FYI - the K-x and K-r go to ISO100 not to just ISO200.

ISO 200 is the default lowest setting but you can enable expanded ISO range in the menus that opens up 100 at the lower end and increases the upper end by 2x.

Lots of debate about why this is setup this way but its pretty easy to change once you know its available.
01-01-2011, 10:04 AM   #12
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Tumbleweed, Arizona
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 5,107
QuoteOriginally posted by pixelhunter Quote
Thats good insight thanks very much. I still haven't made a decision id love to jump on the k-5 but too expensive. Thanks for giving your input on lenses ill have to check out the DA 10-17 FE
As I wrote previously, the K5 would be optimal. However, note that I am still shooting with my K20. A K5 would be wonderful - I too find the 5 too expensive. If I were a professional, I would have acquired it already, since it probably would have paid for itself already. But, alas I am a lowly amateur trying to get better. So a K7 would work very well. I bypassed the K7 since it had the same sensor as my K20.

Lenses - I would recommend against the 10-17 right out of the gate. Its a wonderful lens - don't get me wrong. A few of my most favorite images came from it. However, its largest advantage is its biggest pitfall, in that not all views favor its distortion. You will get more use out of a rectilinear lens, as this is a specialty lens. Yes, its a zoom and the largest part of the distortion diminishes with the increased focal length, but it is still there. You can de-fish the images with software, but then you loose a lot around the edges, and in some cases the software is unable to fix all the distortion in the image that it leaves.

What I would do instead, would be either the 16-45/f4 from Pentax or a new lens from Sigma, the 8-16/f4.5-5.6It is slower, but wider, and its distortion can be corrected. Its a rectilinear lens (i.e., its normal), thus it would be useful everywhere. As one of your first lenses, it would see a lot more use than the fisheye. If you bookend these two lenses together, then you have a focal range of 8 to 45. With the 55 to 300 you then essentially have the entire focal range across 3 lenses. I am adding in the 55-300 in that even though you indicate a liking for the wide end, having coverage for certain detail works and complements with all of this.

I would also consider used lenses. The price on the 16-45 has come down substantially, and they are available on the market place. Also the 10-17, you will find that folks pick it up and then do not like it, so it hits the market place also. For lenses, folks here tend to treat them with care.

The other thing is - disregard the focal length numbers for wide angle lenses. Rather, look at the lens' field of view in degrees, as that is something that you can relate to much easier.

01-01-2011, 12:25 PM   #13
Ira
Inactive Account




Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Coral Springs, FL
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 5,216
Don't quite understand why ISO capabilities matter for HDR:

You have to be on a tripod anyway for best results, and even with faster shutter speed, your subject/scene can't have any movement.
01-03-2011, 07:00 AM   #14
Veteran Member
Docrwm's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Somewhere in the Southern US
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 11,275
QuoteOriginally posted by Ira Quote
Don't quite understand why ISO capabilities matter for HDR:

You have to be on a tripod anyway for best results, and even with faster shutter speed, your subject/scene can't have any movement.
Ira,
From what I understand, since you are recomposing 3+ images into one image any noise in any of the images can get magnified by the process. So, the lower the ISO to begin with the less noise in the finished product.
-Robert
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
aeb, camera, cameras, hdr, hdr photos, k-7, k-x, pentax, pentax help, photography, photos, results
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
would you bet on the new camera being revolutionary or playing catch-up? Reportage Pentax News and Rumors 81 07-01-2010 07:00 PM
Comparison of HDR and Single Shot Photos of the Grand Canyon cdurfor Digital Processing, Software, and Printing 18 03-27-2010 02:37 PM
What is my best bet for a large detail pic of the moon MikesChevelle Troubleshooting and Beginner Help 13 02-18-2010 04:20 PM
Bet on K7 poney Pentax News and Rumors 84 05-19-2009 10:32 AM
24 hs to bet about the x-sync speed! vitalsax Pentax News and Rumors 5 05-18-2009 06:33 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:19 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top