K-7 Manual Mode... What the hell just happened?

MPrince · 01-08-2011, 05:28 PM

Originally posted by Student

But the room was so bright I could have worn sunglasses, yet the picture was dark like a cave, you couldn't distinguish anything!

You would be surprised how dark it is indoors.

Seriously.

The ability of the human brain to compensate for what the eye sees is truly astonishing.

Student · 01-08-2011, 05:32 PM

Well, I think I found the problem, the shutter speed was set at max! The problem I have with using low shutter speeds is that I have a condition which makes me tremble a lot.

MPrince · 01-08-2011, 05:36 PM

Originally posted by Student

Well, I think I found the problem, the shutter speed was set at max! The problem I have with using low shutter speeds is that I have a condition which makes me tremble a lot.

Help us help you! Post the image! Tell us what the shutter speed and aperture were!

We want to help but you won't let us!!!

DaveHolmes · 01-08-2011, 05:46 PM

Originally posted by Mike Cash

Also.....you still haven't mentioned what the aperture and shutter speed were. It is entirely possible that you could have taken a photo at ISO100 in that room but it all depends on what the other two exposure factors were.

There is effectively a "Holy Trinity" of correct exposure.... Each are necessary and no one is more or less important than the others

1) ISO - The sensitivity of your sensor... Bright and sunny... ISO 100... Low Light indoors... ISO 400+ etc... HOW SENSITIVE TO LIGHT DO I NEED TO BE

2) Aperture - kinda like an eye... Wide open (f3.5 on the kit lens) allows lots of light to reach the sensor... Stopped down (say f8 or f11) allows less light to enter, onto sensor... NB. smaller Aperture (higher f-numbers) generally create sharper images...
HOW MUCH LIGHT DO I ALLOW TO THE SENSOR

3) Shutter Speed - The shutter has 2 parts to its function... One part opens... allowing light to passed through the Aperture to hit the sensor... The 2nd part closes... blocking light passed through the aperture from hitting the sensor.
FOR HOW LONG DO I ALLOW LIGHT TO TOUCH THE SENSOR

Use the meter to tell when a shot is correctly exposed.... for a speed that you can deal with handheld... Hope this helps

DaveHolmes · 01-08-2011, 05:53 PM

Originally posted by Student

The problem I have with using low shutter speeds is that I have a condition which makes me tremble a lot.

If this is the case... When shooting indoors and in lowlight... Bump up your ISO to get correct exposure with faster shetter speeds... 1/250 of a second to 1/500 should be adequate to combat shakes (depending on severity) but a good place to start...

Try using Tv , use auto ISO for now and find at what point your trembles effect ability and check exif later...

Student · 01-08-2011, 06:24 PM

Okay first not too dark shot taken with my K-7 indoors. I had all lights on and even a construction projector on! It was so bright I had to wear sunglasses.

1/15 Exposure
ISO 100

Please feel free to tell me if you like my watch!

Watch | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

I dare not increase the ISO because of the noise but I opened up the aperture.

Mike Cash · 01-08-2011, 06:40 PM

You needn't be concerned about the noise from ISO. Any degradation due to noise would be more than made up for by the improvement in less blur from shaky hands. Going up to ISO400 would have made that 1/15 into 1/60, which would help a lot. Nobody ever died from the noise at ISO400.

Do you copyright all your photos to George W. Bush?

Student · 01-08-2011, 06:43 PM

Originally posted by Mike Cash

Do you copyright all your photos to George W. Bush?

Well since I took a picture of a Rolex I didn't want to put my real name.

So I put whatever came to mind. I almost wrote Fred Astaire! What do you think of the picture?

BrianR · 01-08-2011, 07:23 PM

Originally posted by Student

Okay first not too dark shot taken with my K-7 indoors. I had all lights on and even a construction projector on! It was so bright I had to wear sunglasses.

1/15 Exposure
ISO 100

Please feel free to tell me if you like my watch!

Watch | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

I dare not increase the ISO because of the noise but I opened up the aperture.

If you are so concerned about noise that you don't want to go above iso 100, then for goodness sakes you should be using a tripod for something that moves as fast as a watch. The drop in quality from shakiness (especially since you say you tremble a lot) going from 1/60s to 1/15s will probably outweigh the noise you'd gain going from iso100 to iso 400.

The anti shake mechanism is great, but no substitute for a solid tripod at settings like you used.

egordon99 · 01-08-2011, 07:54 PM

Originally posted by Student

I still need to get used to digital...

Like other folks have already mentioned, exposure works the same as it did with film. The physical properties of light/optics have not changed.

egordon99 · 01-08-2011, 07:56 PM

Originally posted by Student

Okay, I chose ISO 100, adjusted focus but did not touch anything else at that point, I wanted to take a test shot. I was in a room with all lamps turned on and snaped a picture. The picture looked like all the lights were off! It was so damn dark! What happened to my picture? I still need to get used to digital...

You DO realize that an exposure is made up of ISO, f/stop, and shutter speed? Just like in film days (except you were stuck with one ISO for the entire role of film)

Just telling us that the ISO was 100 and the shot was dark tells us NOTHING.

You could easily get a dark shot at ISO100 outdoors too! (ISO100, f/22, 1/8000s would probably do it)

timh · 01-09-2011, 03:44 AM

Tripod for things that don't move, that's the general rule for best quality. Very easy to follow when you're indoors, sometimes a bit of a pain outdoors.

Try the watch shot again, tripod (or some sturdy support), ISO 100, A mode, F11. Use the 2 second timer.

Ira · 01-09-2011, 07:58 AM

Originally posted by JeffJS

Gretsch 6120DSW.. From my 1

Hijack alert:

A BIGSBY!

Frogfish · 01-09-2011, 09:16 AM

Originally posted by Student

Okay first not too dark shot taken with my K-7 indoors. I had all lights on and even a construction projector on! It was so bright I had to wear sunglasses.

1/15 Exposure
ISO 100

Please feel free to tell me if you like my watch!

Watch | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

I dare not increase the ISO because of the noise but I opened up the aperture.

With the K7 you can easily use 200 or 400, when pressed I go to 800 to help me keep the shutter speed and aperture I want, and in extreme circumstances, with the K7, even to 1,600 - never more than that as otherwise they are unrecoverable in PP. With the K7 at 400, 800 & of course 1,600 you need to have good noise reduction software to easily erase the noise. A simple job and as a student you'll get great discounts on one of the numerous excellent software programs out there !

You said you opened up the aperture .. to what & from what ?

I shoot in M mode roughly 90% of the time and - depending on what I'm shooting and conditions of course - usually start with 1/180 or faster, ISO 100 or 200 and an aperture of between f2.8 and f5.6 for most subjects (I like a nice narrow DoF for most subjects) obviously this will end up at around f8 - f11 for some subjects.

A good place to start with the K7, if you are not sure, is by pressing the green button to see what the camera says ... though I find this almost always has too slow a shutter speed it does give a good starting point.

cats_five · 01-09-2011, 11:08 AM

Originally posted by Student

Well since I took a picture of a Rolex I didn't want to put my real name.

So I put whatever came to mind. I almost wrote Fred Astaire! What do you think of the picture?

Focused in front of the watch I think with the result that only the winder is anywhere near sharp, and it's only vaguely sharp. It looks like everything from the winder to the bottom of the frame is in focus.

I'm also not keen on the fold in the red background and the other bits of whatever there.

Generally speaking it's also underexposed, unfortunately you have those very bright highlights that would be even worse if the rest was correctly exposed. A curves adjustment in post-processing can help with that, but arranging the lighting so you can expose correctly in the first place helps even more.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Misc Playing in manual mode..	Harish Hegde	Post Your Photos!	5	07-26-2010 08:39 PM
My start in manual mode	matze_1	Post Your Photos!	1	05-04-2009 11:47 AM
Wireless in Manual Mode...Help!	dminott	Pentax Camera and Field Accessories	2	04-04-2009 07:23 PM
K100ds and full manual mode w/manual lens	dwhopson	Pentax DSLR Discussion	10	11-06-2008 10:37 PM
Manual Mode Help Please-K10D	GerrieDup	Pentax DSLR Discussion	7	04-16-2008 01:17 PM

01-08-2011, 05:28 PM	#16
MPrince Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: WV Posts: 1,495	Originally posted by Student But the room was so bright I could have worn sunglasses, yet the picture was dark like a cave, you couldn't distinguish anything! You would be surprised how dark it is indoors. Seriously. The ability of the human brain to compensate for what the eye sees is truly astonishing.

01-08-2011, 05:32 PM	#17
Student Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 234 Original Poster	Well, I think I found the problem, the shutter speed was set at max! The problem I have with using low shutter speeds is that I have a condition which makes me tremble a lot.

01-08-2011, 05:36 PM	#18
MPrince Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: WV Posts: 1,495	Originally posted by Student Well, I think I found the problem, the shutter speed was set at max! The problem I have with using low shutter speeds is that I have a condition which makes me tremble a lot. Help us help you! Post the image! Tell us what the shutter speed and aperture were! We want to help but you won't let us!!!

01-08-2011, 05:46 PM	#19
DaveHolmes Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 1,501	Originally posted by Mike Cash Also.....you still haven't mentioned what the aperture and shutter speed were. It is entirely possible that you could have taken a photo at ISO100 in that room but it all depends on what the other two exposure factors were. There is effectively a "Holy Trinity" of correct exposure.... Each are necessary and no one is more or less important than the others 1) ISO - The sensitivity of your sensor... Bright and sunny... ISO 100... Low Light indoors... ISO 400+ etc... HOW SENSITIVE TO LIGHT DO I NEED TO BE 2) Aperture - kinda like an eye... Wide open (f3.5 on the kit lens) allows lots of light to reach the sensor... Stopped down (say f8 or f11) allows less light to enter, onto sensor... NB. smaller Aperture (higher f-numbers) generally create sharper images... HOW MUCH LIGHT DO I ALLOW TO THE SENSOR 3) Shutter Speed - The shutter has 2 parts to its function... One part opens... allowing light to passed through the Aperture to hit the sensor... The 2nd part closes... blocking light passed through the aperture from hitting the sensor. FOR HOW LONG DO I ALLOW LIGHT TO TOUCH THE SENSOR Use the meter to tell when a shot is correctly exposed.... for a speed that you can deal with handheld... Hope this helps

01-08-2011, 05:53 PM	#20
DaveHolmes Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 1,501	Originally posted by Student The problem I have with using low shutter speeds is that I have a condition which makes me tremble a lot. If this is the case... When shooting indoors and in lowlight... Bump up your ISO to get correct exposure with faster shetter speeds... 1/250 of a second to 1/500 should be adequate to combat shakes (depending on severity) but a good place to start... Try using Tv , use auto ISO for now and find at what point your trembles effect ability and check exif later...

01-08-2011, 06:24 PM	#21
Student Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 234 Original Poster	Okay first not too dark shot taken with my K-7 indoors. I had all lights on and even a construction projector on! It was so bright I had to wear sunglasses. 1/15 Exposure ISO 100 Please feel free to tell me if you like my watch! Watch \| Flickr - Photo Sharing! I dare not increase the ISO because of the noise but I opened up the aperture.

01-08-2011, 06:40 PM	#22
Mike Cash Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Japan Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,950	You needn't be concerned about the noise from ISO. Any degradation due to noise would be more than made up for by the improvement in less blur from shaky hands. Going up to ISO400 would have made that 1/15 into 1/60, which would help a lot. Nobody ever died from the noise at ISO400. Do you copyright all your photos to George W. Bush?

01-08-2011, 06:43 PM	#23
Student Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 234 Original Poster	Originally posted by Mike Cash Do you copyright all your photos to George W. Bush? Well since I took a picture of a Rolex I didn't want to put my real name. So I put whatever came to mind. I almost wrote Fred Astaire! What do you think of the picture?

01-08-2011, 07:23 PM	#24
BrianR Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Ontario Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,332	Originally posted by Student Okay first not too dark shot taken with my K-7 indoors. I had all lights on and even a construction projector on! It was so bright I had to wear sunglasses. 1/15 Exposure ISO 100 Please feel free to tell me if you like my watch! Watch \| Flickr - Photo Sharing! I dare not increase the ISO because of the noise but I opened up the aperture. If you are so concerned about noise that you don't want to go above iso 100, then for goodness sakes you should be using a tripod for something that moves as fast as a watch. The drop in quality from shakiness (especially since you say you tremble a lot) going from 1/60s to 1/15s will probably outweigh the noise you'd gain going from iso100 to iso 400. The anti shake mechanism is great, but no substitute for a solid tripod at settings like you used.

01-08-2011, 07:54 PM	#25
egordon99 Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Outside of Philly Posts: 1,561	Originally posted by Student I still need to get used to digital... Like other folks have already mentioned, exposure works the same as it did with film. The physical properties of light/optics have not changed.

01-08-2011, 07:56 PM	#26
egordon99 Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Outside of Philly Posts: 1,561	Originally posted by Student Okay, I chose ISO 100, adjusted focus but did not touch anything else at that point, I wanted to take a test shot. I was in a room with all lamps turned on and snaped a picture. The picture looked like all the lights were off! It was so damn dark! What happened to my picture? I still need to get used to digital... You DO realize that an exposure is made up of ISO, f/stop, and shutter speed? Just like in film days (except you were stuck with one ISO for the entire role of film) Just telling us that the ISO was 100 and the shot was dark tells us NOTHING. You could easily get a dark shot at ISO100 outdoors too! (ISO100, f/22, 1/8000s would probably do it)

01-09-2011, 03:44 AM	#27
timh Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Wales Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 445	Tripod for things that don't move, that's the general rule for best quality. Very easy to follow when you're indoors, sometimes a bit of a pain outdoors. Try the watch shot again, tripod (or some sturdy support), ISO 100, A mode, F11. Use the 2 second timer.

01-09-2011, 07:58 AM	#28
Ira Inactive Account Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Coral Springs, FL Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,216	Originally posted by JeffJS Gretsch 6120DSW.. From my 1 Hijack alert: A BIGSBY!

01-09-2011, 09:16 AM	#29
Frogfish Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Shanghai Posts: 4,490	Originally posted by Student Okay first not too dark shot taken with my K-7 indoors. I had all lights on and even a construction projector on! It was so bright I had to wear sunglasses. 1/15 Exposure ISO 100 Please feel free to tell me if you like my watch! Watch \| Flickr - Photo Sharing! I dare not increase the ISO because of the noise but I opened up the aperture. With the K7 you can easily use 200 or 400, when pressed I go to 800 to help me keep the shutter speed and aperture I want, and in extreme circumstances, with the K7, even to 1,600 - never more than that as otherwise they are unrecoverable in PP. With the K7 at 400, 800 & of course 1,600 you need to have good noise reduction software to easily erase the noise. A simple job and as a student you'll get great discounts on one of the numerous excellent software programs out there ! You said you opened up the aperture .. to what & from what ? I shoot in M mode roughly 90% of the time and - depending on what I'm shooting and conditions of course - usually start with 1/180 or faster, ISO 100 or 200 and an aperture of between f2.8 and f5.6 for most subjects (I like a nice narrow DoF for most subjects) obviously this will end up at around f8 - f11 for some subjects. A good place to start with the K7, if you are not sure, is by pressing the green button to see what the camera says ... though I find this almost always has too slow a shutter speed it does give a good starting point.

01-09-2011, 11:08 AM	#30
cats_five Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Fife, Scotland Posts: 835	Originally posted by Student Well since I took a picture of a Rolex I didn't want to put my real name. So I put whatever came to mind. I almost wrote Fred Astaire! What do you think of the picture? Focused in front of the watch I think with the result that only the winder is anywhere near sharp, and it's only vaguely sharp. It looks like everything from the winder to the bottom of the frame is in focus. I'm also not keen on the fold in the red background and the other bits of whatever there. Generally speaking it's also underexposed, unfortunately you have those very bright highlights that would be even worse if the rest was correctly exposed. A curves adjustment in post-processing can help with that, but arranging the lighting so you can expose correctly in the first place helps even more.