*istDL Takes Black Pictures

sgtkashim · 01-21-2011, 10:20 AM

Originally posted by tpx60s

as an fyi I found out from the gentleman that I bought it from that he had taken it in to get the viewfinder and the ccd cleaned. he then stored it for a couple of months. I wonder if it was damaged during the cleaning process.

I'm curious when the mirror is locked up what is the bottom (i'm assuming this is the ccd) supposed to look like? I see what looks like a smaller mirror that's on an angle.

That's the mirror. It's also possible the mirror isn't raising. If you put it in sensor cleaning mode, you should see a small, shiny black rectangle, flat against the back of the cavity there. It shouldn't be on an angle or anything - its the sensor. It will be the same dimensions ratio as the photos. If you see a black rectangle with metal shutters over it, then the shutter isn't opening. If you see a mirror still, then your mirror isn't raising.

Make sure you use "sensor cleaning" mode, not "mirror lockup" mode - mirror lockup is for shooting without mirror slap. Sensor cleaning is what you're looking for.

tpx60s · 01-21-2011, 12:00 PM

I see what you are describing. I was talking about directly under the shiny rectangle.

sgtkashim · 01-21-2011, 12:25 PM

Originally posted by tpx60s

I see what you are describing. I was talking about directly under the shiny rectangle.

umm.... if you've found the sensor, there should be nothing under it. It should be soldered directly to the circuit board at the back of the camera cavity. If it's come out, you've got a major problem. I don't think the *istD had shake reduction - that thing should be fixed in place.

**NaClH2O** · 01-21-2011, 12:47 PM

Originally posted by tpx60s

ovim- there's a black image being written to the card. it takes up the usual amount of space that it would take if it was a "good" picture. to my knowledge it does not have digital dof preview- if I am wrong please somebody correct me.
Jonathan Mac-how do I check for a broken shutter? if you don't mind me asking

I don't know about the DL, but the DS had DOF preview, just pull the ON/OFF lever to the right and the mirror will put up into shooting position. You might want to try that to make sure the mirror is operating as intended. I don't think it's the mirror, but it can't hurt to check on it, especially since it's such a simple procedure.
EDIT: It is a mechanical DOF preview, not a digital one.

NaCl(always best to eliminate the simple first)H2O

Last edited by NaClH2O; 01-21-2011 at 01:02 PM.

tpx60s · 01-21-2011, 01:03 PM

NaCIH20 I see what you're saying. I pulled the lever ( the one with the little circle thingy)and only the lever on the inside of the body moves up and down but the mirror does not move. Is that fixable?

Sgtkashim- I think that I was just describing it wrong to you.

**ChipB** · 01-21-2011, 01:32 PM

Originally posted by NaClH2O

I don't know about the DL, but the DS had DOF preview, just pull the ON/OFF lever to the right and the mirror will put up into shooting position. You might want to try that to make sure the mirror is operating as intended. I don't think it's the mirror, but it can't hurt to check on it, especially since it's such a simple procedure.
EDIT: It is a mechanical DOF preview, not a digital one.

NaCl(always best to eliminate the simple first)H2O

I just tested this on my *ist DL - only the aperture actuating lever moves - the mirror does not. No reason for it too move - you still need to look through the viewfinder to check DOF.

---------- Post added 01-21-11 at 02:38 PM ----------

AFAIK, the only way to visually check the mirror's operation is to go into sensor cleaning mode - unless you simply watch the mirror without a lens attached and press the shutter button (best if in manual focus mode).

In the set-up menu, go to "Sensor Cleaning" (second from last item), select "Mirror Up" and press OK. The mirror should flip up and you should be able to see the sensor - it's the kinda blue/green "thing" you'll see (about the only thing you'll see, if fact).

If you don't see the sensor, then something in the shutter box is broken.

sgtkashim · 01-21-2011, 01:47 PM

Originally posted by tpx60s

NaCIH20 I see what you're saying. I pulled the lever ( the one with the little circle thingy)and only the lever on the inside of the body moves up and down but the mirror does not move. Is that fixable?

Sgtkashim- I think that I was just describing it wrong to you.

Alright, so here's the test I did, step by step.

Power on, menu, wrench sub-menu, sensor cleaning. On the Kx it's sub-menu 4. Not sure about the *istDL. You should hear the mirror move at this point. It will sound like the first half of taking a picture.

Remove the lens.

Look into the hole where the mirror usually is. You should see a shiny, greenish/blackish rectangle. That's the sensor. If if looks dull and has 3 fine lines running horizontally, then that's the shutter gate and your shutter is busted. If you still see the mirror (it looks exactly like it does when you swap lenses), then you have a bad mirror lifter or something like that.

If you see anything other than that, someone has pried your sensor off the circuit board... and you're going to need a new camera.

Power the camera off - the mirror should drop down.

If all of this checks out, then you have an electrical problem between the sensor and the card reader. Given that it writes a file, though, the card reader is fine. It also appears to process the file fine, so if the shutter and mirror work, I'd guess the problem is the sensor is fried or physically disconnected.

DON'T DON'T DON'T put it in bulb mode and press the shutter. A live CCD will suck in dust like a vacuum cleaner - static electricity. Also why you should never change lenses w/ the camera on. DOFP will not show you anything - it just actuates the aperture arm.

tpx60s · 01-21-2011, 01:53 PM

ChipB-thanks for your very concise reply. It's what I was trying to say in my previous post. lol
The DL I have here does just as yours does. I tried it without the lens as well and the mirror does flip up.

tpx60s · 01-21-2011, 02:02 PM

sgtkashim- I followed your instructions and everything checks out. When I have more time this weekend I will take it apart and see if anything is disconnected.
thanks again

macopajuice · 01-29-2011, 07:20 AM

Same thing happened to my K100D. After what seemed to be months of not using the camera, it started producing black photos.

Another Pentaxian suggested it lacked the "exercise" due to storage.

So I kept working on that shutter button until the camera fixed itself. Thankfully, I never had the same issue again, but i try to use the camera as often as possible.

Originally posted by tpx60s

Hi ChipB- thanks for the offer! I already have the service manual for the istdl so I am good. I really appreciate it though.
sgtkashim how long did you put into mirror lock up for? The person I bought it from said that he had it in storage for a couple of months and it worked when he turned it on later then it just started doing the black pics.

ChrisJ · 01-29-2011, 07:35 AM

There are two DOF preview modes on a DS (and all Pentax models I think). in one it doesn't move the mirror, it just stops the lens down in the other it does and sends the image to the screen, this sends an image taken with the exposure correct and is for macro mode where the viewfinder image would be dim. This is not the default mode you have to set it in the menu. This mode will test the sensor.

It could be the SD card bay if the contact missing is the serial data connector then the camera would be sending the image, but the card won't be receiving it.

Chris

**ChipB** · 01-29-2011, 08:54 AM

Originally posted by ChrisJ

There are two DOF preview modes on a DS (and all Pentax models I think). in one it doesn't move the mirror, it just stops the lens down in the other it does and sends the image to the screen, this sends an image taken with the exposure correct and is for macro mode where the viewfinder image would be dim. This is not the default mode you have to set it in the menu. This mode will test the sensor.
Chris

Chris, I think you're talking about "Live View" - the DS didn't have it - it first appeared on the K20D. AFAIK there are only two ways to expose the sensor on a DS - sensor cleaning mode and actually taking a photo.

01-29-2011, 07:35 AM	#26
ChrisJ Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Eckington, Derbyshire UK Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 316	There are two DOF preview modes on a DS (and all Pentax models I think). in one it doesn't move the mirror, it just stops the lens down in the other it does and sends the image to the screen, this sends an image taken with the exposure correct and is for macro mode where the viewfinder image would be dim. This is not the default mode you have to set it in the menu. This mode will test the sensor. It could be the SD card bay if the contact missing is the serial data connector then the camera would be sending the image, but the card won't be receiving it. Chris Last edited by ChrisJ; 01-29-2011 at 07:36 AM. Reason: spelling !!

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01-21-2011, 10:20 AM	#16
sgtkashim Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 90	Originally posted by tpx60s as an fyi I found out from the gentleman that I bought it from that he had taken it in to get the viewfinder and the ccd cleaned. he then stored it for a couple of months. I wonder if it was damaged during the cleaning process. I'm curious when the mirror is locked up what is the bottom (i'm assuming this is the ccd) supposed to look like? I see what looks like a smaller mirror that's on an angle. That's the mirror. It's also possible the mirror isn't raising. If you put it in sensor cleaning mode, you should see a small, shiny black rectangle, flat against the back of the cavity there. It shouldn't be on an angle or anything - its the sensor. It will be the same dimensions ratio as the photos. If you see a black rectangle with metal shutters over it, then the shutter isn't opening. If you see a mirror still, then your mirror isn't raising. Make sure you use "sensor cleaning" mode, not "mirror lockup" mode - mirror lockup is for shooting without mirror slap. Sensor cleaning is what you're looking for.

01-21-2011, 12:00 PM	#17
tpx60s New Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 10 Original Poster	I see what you are describing. I was talking about directly under the shiny rectangle.

01-21-2011, 12:25 PM	#18
sgtkashim Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 90	Originally posted by tpx60s I see what you are describing. I was talking about directly under the shiny rectangle. umm.... if you've found the sensor, there should be nothing under it. It should be soldered directly to the circuit board at the back of the camera cavity. If it's come out, you've got a major problem. I don't think the *istD had shake reduction - that thing should be fixed in place.

01-21-2011, 12:47 PM	#19
NaClH2O Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Bronx NY Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,631	Originally posted by tpx60s ovim- there's a black image being written to the card. it takes up the usual amount of space that it would take if it was a "good" picture. to my knowledge it does not have digital dof preview- if I am wrong please somebody correct me. Jonathan Mac-how do I check for a broken shutter? if you don't mind me asking I don't know about the DL, but the DS had DOF preview, just pull the ON/OFF lever to the right and the mirror will put up into shooting position. You might want to try that to make sure the mirror is operating as intended. I don't think it's the mirror, but it can't hurt to check on it, especially since it's such a simple procedure. EDIT: It is a mechanical DOF preview, not a digital one. NaCl(always best to eliminate the simple first)H2O Last edited by NaClH2O; 01-21-2011 at 01:02 PM.

01-21-2011, 01:03 PM	#20
tpx60s New Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 10 Original Poster	NaCIH20 I see what you're saying. I pulled the lever ( the one with the little circle thingy)and only the lever on the inside of the body moves up and down but the mirror does not move. Is that fixable? Sgtkashim- I think that I was just describing it wrong to you.

01-21-2011, 01:32 PM	#21
ChipB Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Eau Claire, WI Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,701	Originally posted by NaClH2O I don't know about the DL, but the DS had DOF preview, just pull the ON/OFF lever to the right and the mirror will put up into shooting position. You might want to try that to make sure the mirror is operating as intended. I don't think it's the mirror, but it can't hurt to check on it, especially since it's such a simple procedure. EDIT: It is a mechanical DOF preview, not a digital one. NaCl(always best to eliminate the simple first)H2O I just tested this on my *ist DL - only the aperture actuating lever moves - the mirror does not. No reason for it too move - you still need to look through the viewfinder to check DOF. ---------- Post added 01-21-11 at 02:38 PM ---------- AFAIK, the only way to visually check the mirror's operation is to go into sensor cleaning mode - unless you simply watch the mirror without a lens attached and press the shutter button (best if in manual focus mode). In the set-up menu, go to "Sensor Cleaning" (second from last item), select "Mirror Up" and press OK. The mirror should flip up and you should be able to see the sensor - it's the kinda blue/green "thing" you'll see (about the only thing you'll see, if fact). If you don't see the sensor, then something in the shutter box is broken.

01-21-2011, 01:47 PM	#22
sgtkashim Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 90	Originally posted by tpx60s NaCIH20 I see what you're saying. I pulled the lever ( the one with the little circle thingy)and only the lever on the inside of the body moves up and down but the mirror does not move. Is that fixable? Sgtkashim- I think that I was just describing it wrong to you. Alright, so here's the test I did, step by step. Power on, menu, wrench sub-menu, sensor cleaning. On the Kx it's sub-menu 4. Not sure about the *istDL. You should hear the mirror move at this point. It will sound like the first half of taking a picture. Remove the lens. Look into the hole where the mirror usually is. You should see a shiny, greenish/blackish rectangle. That's the sensor. If if looks dull and has 3 fine lines running horizontally, then that's the shutter gate and your shutter is busted. If you still see the mirror (it looks exactly like it does when you swap lenses), then you have a bad mirror lifter or something like that. If you see anything other than that, someone has pried your sensor off the circuit board... and you're going to need a new camera. Power the camera off - the mirror should drop down. If all of this checks out, then you have an electrical problem between the sensor and the card reader. Given that it writes a file, though, the card reader is fine. It also appears to process the file fine, so if the shutter and mirror work, I'd guess the problem is the sensor is fried or physically disconnected. DON'T DON'T DON'T put it in bulb mode and press the shutter. A live CCD will suck in dust like a vacuum cleaner - static electricity. Also why you should never change lenses w/ the camera on. DOFP will not show you anything - it just actuates the aperture arm.

01-21-2011, 01:53 PM	#23
tpx60s New Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 10 Original Poster	ChipB-thanks for your very concise reply. It's what I was trying to say in my previous post. lol The DL I have here does just as yours does. I tried it without the lens as well and the mirror does flip up.

01-21-2011, 02:02 PM	#24
tpx60s New Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 10 Original Poster	sgtkashim- I followed your instructions and everything checks out. When I have more time this weekend I will take it apart and see if anything is disconnected. thanks again

01-29-2011, 07:20 AM	#25
macopajuice Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Manila, Philippines Photos: Gallery Posts: 59	Same thing happened to my K100D. After what seemed to be months of not using the camera, it started producing black photos. Another Pentaxian suggested it lacked the "exercise" due to storage. So I kept working on that shutter button until the camera fixed itself. Thankfully, I never had the same issue again, but i try to use the camera as often as possible. Originally posted by tpx60s Hi ChipB- thanks for the offer! I already have the service manual for the istdl so I am good. I really appreciate it though. sgtkashim how long did you put into mirror lock up for? The person I bought it from said that he had it in storage for a couple of months and it worked when he turned it on later then it just started doing the black pics.

01-29-2011, 08:54 AM	#27
ChipB Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Eau Claire, WI Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,701	Originally posted by ChrisJ There are two DOF preview modes on a DS (and all Pentax models I think). in one it doesn't move the mirror, it just stops the lens down in the other it does and sends the image to the screen, this sends an image taken with the exposure correct and is for macro mode where the viewfinder image would be dim. This is not the default mode you have to set it in the menu. This mode will test the sensor. Chris Chris, I think you're talking about "Live View" - the DS didn't have it - it first appeared on the K20D. AFAIK there are only two ways to expose the sensor on a DS - sensor cleaning mode and actually taking a photo.