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01-27-2011, 08:50 PM   #1
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advise for shooting indoor wrestling

I am new and got a pentax kx with the two lense kit for xmas. I am going to my sons wrestling tomorrow and will be in the gym, i will be approx 40-60ft away. What would you recommend for settings? Thanks

01-27-2011, 09:06 PM   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by RickinMT Quote
I am new and got a pentax kx with the two lense kit for xmas. I am going to my sons wrestling tomorrow and will be in the gym, i will be approx 40-60ft away. What would you recommend for settings? Thanks
That is going to be challenging unless it is a very bright gym. I'd suggest ISO3200 or more, aperture wide open on your longer lens, and hopefully you'll get a 1/100 or faster shutter speed. If not you'll have to bump up the ISO to 6400. If that still isn't doing it then put the camera down and enjoy the wrestling match all the while wondering how you are going to afford that f2.8 telephoto zoom for next time.
01-27-2011, 09:08 PM   #3
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are we gonna have 1 of these "advice" thread every day?

I think by reading the camera's manual you'll have a pretty decent idea of what to do.

Basically we're looking at ISO, aperture, shutter speed.

shooting sport the #1 priority is gonna be shutter speed, get one that work for you and modify aperture/ISO to your fitting (or rather to get enough light that you can actually take a picture).
01-28-2011, 02:19 AM   #4
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a good advice, is to be in the place few minutes before it begin, so you can do some test ... shooting the arbitrator (i don't know if it's the good word. i'm talking about the guy with black white stripes shirt.). you will quickly have an idea about settings.

But reading the manual, would be suuuuuuuuch a great idea

01-28-2011, 05:36 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by aurele Quote
But reading the manual, would be suuuuuuuuch a great idea
Looking in the manual for an answer to this question is a recipe for frustration, imho.

A lot depends on the lighting (gym lighting is often very bad) and lens. My general advice is to shoot TAv, nearly wide-open with a shutter speed no lower than 1/300s--the most important thing is to capture action w/o motion blur. The K-x should do pretty well but be sure to check your white balance.
01-28-2011, 07:46 AM   #6
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look at this from the math point of view

image size = subject size * focal length / distance

your sensor is 24mmw 16mm high

shooting distance is 13-16 meters

assuming people are 2 meters tall (for simplicity, and perhaps 1 meter high in some wrestling positions.

what you need is something in the 70-200mm range and as fast as possible
01-28-2011, 07:53 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by dadipentak Quote
Looking in the manual for an answer to this question is a recipe for frustration, imho.

A lot depends on the lighting (gym lighting is often very bad) and lens. My general advice is to shoot TAv, nearly wide-open with a shutter speed no lower than 1/300s--the most important thing is to capture action w/o motion blur. The K-x should do pretty well but be sure to check your white balance.

actually even my old pentax zx-50 manual have instruction on shooting sport/portrait and all kindda thing... it helps beginner to understand the concept of light, and DOF.
01-28-2011, 09:50 AM   #8
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thanks, i have read my manual and i was just asking for some advice, maybe someone that has done it before. What would e the best lense for this type of pics? thanks

01-28-2011, 11:45 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by RickinMT Quote
thanks, i have read my manual and i was just asking for some advice, maybe someone that has done it before. What would be the best lens for this type of pics? thanks
As Lowell said:

QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
what you need is something in the 70-200mm range and as fast as possible
Something like this might work:

Sigma 70-200mm f/2.8 II EX DG APO Macro HSM AF Lens 579109 B&H

That's probably a little more than you spent on the camera and other two lenses, which often surprises people. The manual doesn't cover that either.

For sports, you need a shutter speed fast enough to freeze some or all of the action. Wrestling is a little easier than basketball, but you probably can't go much slower than 1/125 for general shots, maybe 1/60 for a handful of shots with little movement. It would be nice to have the ability to go up to 1/500 at times. The shutter lets in less light when it's not open as long.

Your problem is now about light. The camera will probably want more light than the gym lighting will have. Besides having a slower shutter speed, the camera gets more light by opening the lens as much as possible, or by increasing the sensitivity of its sensor (like turning up the volume). The longer lens you probably have can open up to an aperture of f4 to f5.8, depending on how far you zoom in. The lens I pointed out above can let in two to four times as much light, which makes it expensive and useful. Whatever lens you use, you want the aperture f number to be as low as possible. This will also help to focus only on the wrestling and throw the rest of the stuff out of focus. By the way, if you can get closer, the lens you have can let more light in, which is better.

So tonight, you want to try increasing sensitivity, the ISO number. The camera can use up to ISO 12800 with expanded sensitivity. The extra sensitivity has a cost - noise is amplified. You'll see colored patches in shadows, and generally more "grain". The highest setting is generally only OK if there's no other option to get the shot. The camera produces better images at ISO 3200 or lower.

Tonight will be an experiment to see how much light you have to work with and what settings work best for you. Here are some options:
1. Moving Object mode - the camera will make choices for you based on capturing motion. Focus will be set to AF-C, or continuous mode, so the camera will constantly attempt to refine its focus on the action.
2. Tv mode - this gives you direct control over shutter speed on the e-dial. Try 1/60 to 1/500 and see how the photos come out. You can choose AF-C or AF-S for focus mode. In AF-S, the camera will try to lock focus, and only then take the shot. You can also set Auto ISO if you don't want to have to monitor it yourself.

Take a lot of shots. Then you'll have to look at them all and figure out what worked.
01-28-2011, 12:03 PM   #10
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Some manual reference pages:

Tv mode: p. 97
setting ISO: start at p. 90, lots of options and other pages mentioned on p. 91
Moving Object mode: p. 84 (not much there)
setting AF mode: p. 115

Additional thoughts:
The other gym lighting issue is white balance. You can let the camera figure it out, use a preset for fluorescent, or set a custom white balance. Page 182 covers this. Sometimes, the camera makes better Auto choices when the white balance is accurate.

No one has mentioned flash yet. Flash adds light so it can help with the gym light. Your distance is too great for the popup flash, and maybe even for an additional flash. You might want to find out whether it's allowed, then dive into what flash to buy.

Search this forum using wrestling and you're bound to find other threads, possibly example shots too.
01-28-2011, 12:19 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by Just1MoreDave Quote
Some manual reference pages:
Additional thoughts:
The other gym lighting issue is white balance. You can let the camera figure it out, use a preset for fluorescent, or set a custom white balance. Page 182 covers this. Sometimes, the camera makes better Auto choices when the white balance is accurate.
gopod point WB with a mix of flourescents is always a challenge. Maybe here is a place where RAW would be better option
QuoteQuote:
No one has mentioned flash yet. Flash adds light so it can help with the gym light. Your distance is too great for the popup flash, and maybe even for an additional flash. You might want to find out whether it's allowed, then dive into what flash to buy.
and I personally NEVER would. Flash is a big distraction and would impact potentially the reaction time if someone got flashed while defending. I NEVER use flash if I think it may interfere with the event. Same holds true for a lot of sports. also from 40-50 feet away you are now discussing a very powerful flash or flash used in conjunction with High ISO
QuoteQuote:
Search this forum using wrestling and you're bound to find other threads, possibly example shots too.
not just wrestling but indoor sport, there are lots of them
01-28-2011, 03:59 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
I NEVER use flash if I think it may interfere with the event. Same holds true for a lot of sports.
Amen! As a former wrestler I think flash would not be a huge distraction but still.... and I absolutely forbid myself from using flash at my daughter's basketball games. I feel so strongly about it that I forced my self to get a K-5 to address the noise issue. ;~)
01-30-2011, 03:53 AM   #13
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Waiting for some of your pics to see how you made out.
I occasionally shoot wrestling matches with my k-x and have had the best luck with lenses greater then 70mm, ISO cranked up to 3200 and shutter speeds of greater then 1/250. Flashes didn't seem to cut if for me either on board of fired remotely. Ambient was always better. But.....white balance in the gyms was always a problem so I've decided to shoot RAW, take a grey card with me, take a picture of it and use it for white balance correction in PP.
Ideally, grab a 70-200 f/2.8 and your set. Which by they way, I just got yesterday from the marketplace to solidify my place in the poseur hall of fame for Pentax users who have the gear but can't take good pictures.

Once again... Dave and Lowel Goudge provided great recommendations and help in the beginners forum. You guys are great. Thanks for all the nuggets you've thrown my way as well

QuoteOriginally posted by clockwork247 Quote
are we gonna have 1 of these "advice" thread every day?
This guy needs to crawl back into his cave.
l
01-30-2011, 07:22 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by Deiberson Quote
Ideally, grab a 70-200 f/2.8 and your set. Which by they way, I just got yesterday from the marketplace to solidify my place in the poseur hall of fame for Pentax users who have the gear but can't take good pictures
Welcome to the Great Hall!

I agree that one of those Tamron or Sigma 70-200mm f2.8 lenses would be a good choice.
02-01-2011, 03:18 PM - 2 Likes   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by clockwork247 Quote
are we gonna have 1 of these "advice" thread every day?

I think by reading the camera's manual you'll have a pretty decent idea of what to do.

Basically we're looking at ISO, aperture, shutter speed.

shooting sport the #1 priority is gonna be shutter speed, get one that work for you and modify aperture/ISO to your fitting (or rather to get enough light that you can actually take a picture).
Although I think your technical advice (although limited) is sound, the tone in which you began and subsequently phrased your response came across as somewhat arrogant and rude...

I would remind you that this is a 'Beginners Forum' so in all likelyhood... Yes... There will be one of these advice threads every day.

By taking on board the advice and experience of others... We learn...

If you do not have the patience to deal with those starting out in photography (as we all have done) then can I suggest that you try an alternative forum; or simply do not respond to the questions of others unless you feel you have developed the capacity to respond in a manner befitting an actual human being.

You may have angered me...

Regards
Dave
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