K20D...Noise???

J-Rod · 02-17-2011, 03:47 PM

I just 'upgraded to a K20 from a K10. I have noticed a tremendous amount of what I think is noise in the out of focus parts of the photo at 100% crop. This didn't happen with my K10. Please tell me if I'm not smart enough to use my camera or if something is wrong. I have the JPG noise reduction turned up to 3. It seems to be particularly bad on photos that are a touch under exposed (which I've read isn't a good thing on the K20). Sorry...edit: ISO 280.

Original

Last edited by J-Rod; 02-17-2011 at 04:12 PM.

enoeske · 02-17-2011, 04:52 PM

Originally posted by J-Rod

I just 'upgraded to a K20 from a K10. I have noticed a tremendous amount of what I think is noise in the out of focus parts of the photo at 100% crop. This didn't happen with my K10. Please tell me if I'm not smart enough to use my camera or if something is wrong. I have the JPG noise reduction turned up to 3. It seems to be particularly bad on photos that are a touch under exposed (which I've read isn't a good thing on the K20). Sorry...edit: ISO 280.

Original

I'm certainly not seeing much noise at all. Additionally, noise will be worse with an underexposed image like this.

imtheguy · 02-17-2011, 04:57 PM

Maybe the pic lost detail in posting but I sure don't see a problem in your shots although I can see some grain in the OOF transition areas from light to dark. I have 80k clicks on my k20D and 6K on the K-5 and with all NR off on both they look the same to my untrained eye at low ISO; both have some grain/noise if i blow it up to 100% but it doesnt show on 13x19 prints or slideshows. I admit to using denoise software quite often on the backgrounds so I am guessing my OOF noise is the same as yours and like you I want the OOF areas to be perfectly smooth sometimes. If your K10 takes better looking shots at the same settings...you know which camera to sell if you don't need a backup. Again though, your posts have no issues a tiny bit of PP couldn't handle.

KxBlaze · 02-17-2011, 05:19 PM

I do not see noise either. For being a slightly underexposed image I think the noise control is very good. Do a side by side comparison with the K10 just to make sure.

J-Rod · 02-17-2011, 05:24 PM

All ready did a side by side. I think there is a ton of pixellation when compared with the K10. Also, I'm seeing red and green spots to the left of the boy's eye in the 100% crop.

Of course the K20 has better resolution than the K10 so the decision is more difficult than just noise.

Maybe I just need to expose everything properly every time and I'd have the solution!

SpecialK · 02-17-2011, 06:44 PM

Originally posted by J-Rod

Maybe I just need to expose everything properly every time and I'd have the solution!

That, and don't pixel-peep at 100% :-)

**Ahab** · 02-18-2011, 09:05 AM

Originally posted by SpecialK

That, and don't pixel-peep at 100% :-)

Noise?

mysticcowboy · 02-18-2011, 01:22 PM

This issue was discussed when the K20D first came out. The K10D sensor introduces less of what you're calling noise than does the K20D. It will show up in underexposed areas. I don't remember exactly what the technical term for the "noise" is. It isn't high ISO noise but something to do with the sensor. 99%+ of the time that is irrelevant in real world use and doesn't show up in prints. In fact I doubt that most of us using the K20D have ever noticed it.

And you've already mentioned one factor, that the K20D has almost half again the resolution of the K10D, so things will be visible that you simply couldn't see before.

J-Rod · 02-18-2011, 05:03 PM

Thanks all for the reassurance. It helps.

bymy141 · 02-19-2011, 03:41 AM

I'm not having any Adobe shares, but you might want to have a look at this:
photo management software | Adobe Photoshop Lightroom 3

Ligthroom is doing a great job many area's and widely used by amatures and professionals.
It will easily cover up any of the so called noise you are experiencing.

Cheers, Bert

Ken T · 02-19-2011, 05:58 AM

I do not see noise in those pictures . I think it is about the same to my K-20D under similar lighting and shot under-exposed like that .

**ismaelg** · 02-19-2011, 07:23 AM

I just got a K20D myself. Coming from a 6MP K100D Super, the difference is considerable. To my surprise, The K100DS (and it seems all the 6MP Sony CCD sensors) can not be touched at 100% pixel peep. But how practical is that? not much really.
That doesn't make the K20 any bad. Just a bit different. I'm enjoying it as I'm getting more comfortable with it.
I suppose you are seeing something similar when comparing your K10 and K20.
Enjoy both!

Thanks,

copernicorm · 02-20-2011, 10:14 AM

anche per me e' un problema nelle zone scure , certo la k20 non ha un gran controllo del rumore , almeno rispetto ai nuovi sensori della k5 , ma si difende bene e soprattutto per me rimane quasi imbattibile sotto i 400 iso ( parlo di immagine in generale ovviamente non del rumore )

02-17-2011, 03:47 PM	#1
J-Rod Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Idaho Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 102	K20D...Noise??? I just 'upgraded to a K20 from a K10. I have noticed a tremendous amount of what I think is noise in the out of focus parts of the photo at 100% crop. This didn't happen with my K10. Please tell me if I'm not smart enough to use my camera or if something is wrong. I have the JPG noise reduction turned up to 3. It seems to be particularly bad on photos that are a touch under exposed (which I've read isn't a good thing on the K20). Sorry...edit: ISO 280. Original Last edited by J-Rod; 02-17-2011 at 04:12 PM.

02-17-2011, 05:24 PM	#5
J-Rod Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Idaho Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 102 Original Poster	All ready did a side by side. I think there is a ton of pixellation when compared with the K10. Also, I'm seeing red and green spots to the left of the boy's eye in the 100% crop. Of course the K20 has better resolution than the K10 so the decision is more difficult than just noise. Maybe I just need to expose everything properly every time and I'd have the solution! Last edited by J-Rod; 02-17-2011 at 05:31 PM.

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02-17-2011, 04:52 PM	#2
enoeske Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Surprise, Az Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,136	Originally posted by J-Rod I just 'upgraded to a K20 from a K10. I have noticed a tremendous amount of what I think is noise in the out of focus parts of the photo at 100% crop. This didn't happen with my K10. Please tell me if I'm not smart enough to use my camera or if something is wrong. I have the JPG noise reduction turned up to 3. It seems to be particularly bad on photos that are a touch under exposed (which I've read isn't a good thing on the K20). Sorry...edit: ISO 280. Original I'm certainly not seeing much noise at all. Additionally, noise will be worse with an underexposed image like this.

02-17-2011, 04:57 PM	#3
imtheguy Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Virginia Beach Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,950	Maybe the pic lost detail in posting but I sure don't see a problem in your shots although I can see some grain in the OOF transition areas from light to dark. I have 80k clicks on my k20D and 6K on the K-5 and with all NR off on both they look the same to my untrained eye at low ISO; both have some grain/noise if i blow it up to 100% but it doesnt show on 13x19 prints or slideshows. I admit to using denoise software quite often on the backgrounds so I am guessing my OOF noise is the same as yours and like you I want the OOF areas to be perfectly smooth sometimes. If your K10 takes better looking shots at the same settings...you know which camera to sell if you don't need a backup. Again though, your posts have no issues a tiny bit of PP couldn't handle.

02-17-2011, 05:19 PM	#4
KxBlaze Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: California Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,602	I do not see noise either. For being a slightly underexposed image I think the noise control is very good. Do a side by side comparison with the K10 just to make sure.

02-17-2011, 06:44 PM	#6
SpecialK Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: So California Photos: Gallery Posts: 16,481	Originally posted by J-Rod Maybe I just need to expose everything properly every time and I'd have the solution! That, and don't pixel-peep at 100% :-)

02-18-2011, 09:05 AM	#7
Ahab Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Arnold, Md. Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 762	Originally posted by SpecialK That, and don't pixel-peep at 100% :-) Noise?

02-18-2011, 01:22 PM	#8
mysticcowboy Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: port townsend, wa Photos: Albums Posts: 968	This issue was discussed when the K20D first came out. The K10D sensor introduces less of what you're calling noise than does the K20D. It will show up in underexposed areas. I don't remember exactly what the technical term for the "noise" is. It isn't high ISO noise but something to do with the sensor. 99%+ of the time that is irrelevant in real world use and doesn't show up in prints. In fact I doubt that most of us using the K20D have ever noticed it. And you've already mentioned one factor, that the K20D has almost half again the resolution of the K10D, so things will be visible that you simply couldn't see before.

02-18-2011, 05:03 PM	#9
J-Rod Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Idaho Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 102 Original Poster	Thanks all for the reassurance. It helps.

02-19-2011, 03:41 AM	#10
bymy141 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,563	I'm not having any Adobe shares, but you might want to have a look at this: photo management software \| Adobe Photoshop Lightroom 3 Ligthroom is doing a great job many area's and widely used by amatures and professionals. It will easily cover up any of the so called noise you are experiencing. Cheers, Bert

02-19-2011, 05:58 AM	#11
Ken T Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: California, USA Posts: 536	I do not see noise in those pictures . I think it is about the same to my K-20D under similar lighting and shot under-exposed like that .

02-19-2011, 07:23 AM	#12
ismaelg Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Puerto Rico Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,681	I just got a K20D myself. Coming from a 6MP K100D Super, the difference is considerable. To my surprise, The K100DS (and it seems all the 6MP Sony CCD sensors) can not be touched at 100% pixel peep. But how practical is that? not much really. That doesn't make the K20 any bad. Just a bit different. I'm enjoying it as I'm getting more comfortable with it. I suppose you are seeing something similar when comparing your K10 and K20. Enjoy both! Thanks,

02-20-2011, 10:14 AM	#13
copernicorm Inactive Account Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 8	anche per me e' un problema nelle zone scure , certo la k20 non ha un gran controllo del rumore , almeno rispetto ai nuovi sensori della k5 , ma si difende bene e soprattutto per me rimane quasi imbattibile sotto i 400 iso ( parlo di immagine in generale ovviamente non del rumore )