K20D manual mode problem

mysticcowboy · 02-18-2011, 02:16 PM

I feel silly for not understanding what I'm doing wrong. I assume that it is just some menu item that I mistakenly set. In both M mode and Tav modes when I change either the aperture setting or the shutter speed, the camera changes the corresponding opposite setting to keep the exposure the same - as if it were in shutter or aperture priority modes. A pointer would be greatly appreciated. Before last week I had no problem setting arbitrary aperture and shutter settings in manual mode.

enoeske · 02-18-2011, 02:32 PM

Check to make sure you didn't enable "auto ev adjust" in the C (custom settings) menu. When this is enabled, the camera will give you a better exposure when your chosen settings are way off. Also, make sure you have auto-ISO off.

JeffJS · 02-18-2011, 02:32 PM

Have you by any chance bumped the AE-L button ? That's the only way I can get mine to behave like that. The other way to make it happen, in M, is to link AE-L to AF locked, half press the shutter to focus, once focus is locked, hold half press and change aperture or shutter. Auto EV comp on or off in the custom menu makes no difference. ISO is locked at the bottom of the auto range.

mysticcowboy · 02-18-2011, 04:15 PM

Thanks guys. I did have AE-L linked to AF locked. I remember setting that last week. I un-linked that, but nothing changed, even after powering off the camera and turning it back on. I've very carefully not touched the AE-L button. In M mode still getting aperture changes when moving the shutter speed dial and vice-versa.

Current settings:
Link AF Point and AE - off
AE-L with AF locked -off.
Auto EV Compensation - off.
ISO Sensitivity - 200.
D-Range - off.

Last edited by mysticcowboy; 02-18-2011 at 05:03 PM.

philbaum · 02-18-2011, 05:40 PM

Originally posted by mysticcowboy

Thanks guys. I did have AE-L linked to AF locked. I remember setting that last week. I un-linked that, but nothing changed, even after powering off the camera and turning it back on. I've very carefully not touched the AE-L button. In M mode still getting aperture changes when moving the shutter speed dial and vice-versa.

Current settings:
Link AF Point and AE - off
AE-L with AF locked -off.
Auto EV Compensation - off.
ISO Sensitivity - 200.
D-Range - off.

My TAv works that way, and it is Auto-iso always, but I have yet to be able to get my M mode to work that way. But i seem to recall perhaps having that problem so i'll keep trying to reproduce that problem...let us know when you find the problem, please.[COLOR="Silver"]

---------- Post added 02-18-11 at 05:00 PM ----------

I think its Custom Menu Item 26, option 1 causes the green button to put TAv and M into program line. Dang, that doesn't cause the problem either.

Have you tried putting the custom menu reset into its default state. How about removing the battery for 15 minutes and then reinstalling it?

Put a different lens on and try that. I wondering now if one of the electrical connections in the K mount between the lens and camera is stuck or shorted somehow. Try going thru and cleaning all the ball connections in the K mount and a different lens.

Wombat · 02-18-2011, 06:41 PM

I vaguely recall another post about something similar. Turned out the mode dial had some dirt under the contacts and wasn't picking up M mode. In other words, you might be still in TAv, even though the dial indicates you're in M. Does it work properly if you press down gently on the mode dial as you switch to M? Also what sort of lens are you using and is it in A or manual? And you have got A ring enabled? I don't know whether any of those things would affect your problem but it only takes a second to check.

JeffJS · 02-18-2011, 10:14 PM

Originally posted by mysticcowboy

Thanks guys. I did have AE-L linked to AF locked. I remember setting that last week. I un-linked that, but nothing changed, even after powering off the camera and turning it back on. I've very carefully not touched the AE-L button. In M mode still getting aperture changes when moving the shutter speed dial and vice-versa.

Current settings:
Link AF Point and AE - off
AE-L with AF locked -off.
Auto EV Compensation - off.
ISO Sensitivity - 200.
D-Range - off.

That's the way mine is set up (FW v1.03) and the only way I can make it do what you say yours is doing is to press the AE-L button and then change one of the exposure settings. The only difference is I'm at ISO 100 (but it doesn't matter). That's with a DA*55 f1:1.4 lens on the camera. This DID come up in a recent thread but I think that guys camera was a K10d.

mysticcowboy · 02-18-2011, 10:54 PM

Originally posted by Wombat

I vaguely recall another post about something similar. Turned out the mode dial had some dirt under the contacts and wasn't picking up M mode. In other words, you might be still in TAv, even though the dial indicates you're in M. Does it work properly if you press down gently on the mode dial as you switch to M? Also what sort of lens are you using and is it in A or manual? And you have got A ring enabled? I don't know whether any of those things would affect your problem but it only takes a second to check.

I checked with 2 older lenses. When my F 50 1.7 was in automatic mode I get the shutter and aperture tied together. When I set the aperture with the lens ring, the shutter speed will work properly. The same thing happens with my 100mm macro.

My Pentax 18-250 doesn't have an aperture ring and the shutter and aperture are synced.

The shutter speed dial does work properly with my M 50 1.7 and the green button works the way it always does giving me about a stop and a half under exposure.

So M does work with lenses with the aperture set via the aperture rings, but not when using the auto setting. I'm being very careful to not press the AE lock button.

Okay, now I've played with the AE lock button, wondering if that's what's stuck. Maybe. Turning the camera off then on. I get the synced settings. If I push the AE lock button and take one exposure, then the dials will work properly until I turn the camera off. Distinctly odd.

Removing the battery for a half hour doesn't help. I'll tried resetting the custom menu setting. No help. Might reinstalling the firmware fix this? If so, how is that done?

JeffJS · 02-18-2011, 11:13 PM

Originally posted by mysticcowboy

I checked with 2 older lenses. When my F 50 1.7 was in automatic mode I get the shutter and aperture tied together. When I set the aperture with the lens ring, the shutter speed will work properly. The same thing happens with my 100mm macro.

My Pentax 18-250 doesn't have an aperture ring and the shutter and aperture are synced.

The shutter speed dial does work properly with my M 50 1.7 and the green button works the way it always does giving me about a stop and a half under exposure.

So M does work with lenses with the aperture set via the aperture rings, but not when using the auto setting. I'm being very careful to not press the AE lock button.

Okay, now I've played with the AE lock button, wondering if that's what's stuck. Maybe. Turning the camera off then on. I get the synced settings. If I push the AE lock button and take one exposure, then the dials will work properly until I turn the camera off. Distinctly odd.

Removing the battery for a half hour doesn't help. I'll tried resetting the custom menu setting. No help. Might reinstalling the firmware fix this? If so, how is that done?

This sounds like a hardware problem to me.

If you want to try a firmware reload,

Download the latest from here and follow the instructions in the TXT file. MAKE SURE YOUR BATTERY IS COMPLETELY CHARGED (yes, I meant to shout that out).

Support & Service : PENTAX

mysticcowboy · 02-18-2011, 11:27 PM

Thanks everybody. I'm afraid that JeffJS is probably right and this is a hardware problem. The camera is still usable. I'll just have to use M with lenses with aperture rings or stick with Av. I can live with that.

Well, I want a K-5 anyway. I'll just have to get serious about saving for one.

---------- Post added 02-19-11 at 08:40 AM ----------

Fixed it. Hurray! Reinstalling the firmware solved the problem. Thanks again to everyone who helped me rule out camera settings.

02-18-2011, 02:16 PM	#1
mysticcowboy Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: port townsend, wa Photos: Albums Posts: 968	K20D manual mode problem I feel silly for not understanding what I'm doing wrong. I assume that it is just some menu item that I mistakenly set. In both M mode and Tav modes when I change either the aperture setting or the shutter speed, the camera changes the corresponding opposite setting to keep the exposure the same - as if it were in shutter or aperture priority modes. A pointer would be greatly appreciated. Before last week I had no problem setting arbitrary aperture and shutter settings in manual mode.

02-18-2011, 02:32 PM	#3
JeffJS Inactive Account Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Michigan, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 7,484	Have you by any chance bumped the AE-L button ? That's the only way I can get mine to behave like that. The other way to make it happen, in M, is to link AE-L to AF locked, half press the shutter to focus, once focus is locked, hold half press and change aperture or shutter. Auto EV comp on or off in the custom menu makes no difference. ISO is locked at the bottom of the auto range. Last edited by JeffJS; 02-18-2011 at 02:45 PM.

02-18-2011, 05:40 PM	#5
philbaum Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Port Townsend, Washington State, USA Posts: 3,659	Originally posted by mysticcowboy Thanks guys. I did have AE-L linked to AF locked. I remember setting that last week. I un-linked that, but nothing changed, even after powering off the camera and turning it back on. I've very carefully not touched the AE-L button. In M mode still getting aperture changes when moving the shutter speed dial and vice-versa. Current settings: Link AF Point and AE - off AE-L with AF locked -off. Auto EV Compensation - off. ISO Sensitivity - 200. D-Range - off. My TAv works that way, and it is Auto-iso always, but I have yet to be able to get my M mode to work that way. But i seem to recall perhaps having that problem so i'll keep trying to reproduce that problem...let us know when you find the problem, please.[COLOR="Silver"] ---------- Post added 02-18-11 at 05:00 PM ---------- I think its Custom Menu Item 26, option 1 causes the green button to put TAv and M into program line. Dang, that doesn't cause the problem either. Have you tried putting the custom menu reset into its default state. How about removing the battery for 15 minutes and then reinstalling it? Put a different lens on and try that. I wondering now if one of the electrical connections in the K mount between the lens and camera is stuck or shorted somehow. Try going thru and cleaning all the ball connections in the K mount and a different lens. Last edited by philbaum; 02-18-2011 at 06:02 PM.

02-18-2011, 10:54 PM	#8
mysticcowboy Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: port townsend, wa Photos: Albums Posts: 968 Original Poster	Originally posted by Wombat I vaguely recall another post about something similar. Turned out the mode dial had some dirt under the contacts and wasn't picking up M mode. In other words, you might be still in TAv, even though the dial indicates you're in M. Does it work properly if you press down gently on the mode dial as you switch to M? Also what sort of lens are you using and is it in A or manual? And you have got A ring enabled? I don't know whether any of those things would affect your problem but it only takes a second to check. I checked with 2 older lenses. When my F 50 1.7 was in automatic mode I get the shutter and aperture tied together. When I set the aperture with the lens ring, the shutter speed will work properly. The same thing happens with my 100mm macro. My Pentax 18-250 doesn't have an aperture ring and the shutter and aperture are synced. The shutter speed dial does work properly with my M 50 1.7 and the green button works the way it always does giving me about a stop and a half under exposure. So M does work with lenses with the aperture set via the aperture rings, but not when using the auto setting. I'm being very careful to not press the AE lock button. Okay, now I've played with the AE lock button, wondering if that's what's stuck. Maybe. Turning the camera off then on. I get the synced settings. If I push the AE lock button and take one exposure, then the dials will work properly until I turn the camera off. Distinctly odd. Removing the battery for a half hour doesn't help. I'll tried resetting the custom menu setting. No help. Might reinstalling the firmware fix this? If so, how is that done? Last edited by mysticcowboy; 02-18-2011 at 11:02 PM.

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02-18-2011, 02:32 PM	#2
enoeske Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Surprise, Az Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,136	Check to make sure you didn't enable "auto ev adjust" in the C (custom settings) menu. When this is enabled, the camera will give you a better exposure when your chosen settings are way off. Also, make sure you have auto-ISO off.

02-18-2011, 04:15 PM	#4
mysticcowboy Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: port townsend, wa Photos: Albums Posts: 968 Original Poster	Thanks guys. I did have AE-L linked to AF locked. I remember setting that last week. I un-linked that, but nothing changed, even after powering off the camera and turning it back on. I've very carefully not touched the AE-L button. In M mode still getting aperture changes when moving the shutter speed dial and vice-versa. Current settings: Link AF Point and AE - off AE-L with AF locked -off. Auto EV Compensation - off. ISO Sensitivity - 200. D-Range - off. Last edited by mysticcowboy; 02-18-2011 at 05:03 PM.

02-18-2011, 06:41 PM	#6
Wombat Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: South Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 901	I vaguely recall another post about something similar. Turned out the mode dial had some dirt under the contacts and wasn't picking up M mode. In other words, you might be still in TAv, even though the dial indicates you're in M. Does it work properly if you press down gently on the mode dial as you switch to M? Also what sort of lens are you using and is it in A or manual? And you have got A ring enabled? I don't know whether any of those things would affect your problem but it only takes a second to check.

02-18-2011, 10:14 PM	#7
JeffJS Inactive Account Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Michigan, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 7,484	Originally posted by mysticcowboy Thanks guys. I did have AE-L linked to AF locked. I remember setting that last week. I un-linked that, but nothing changed, even after powering off the camera and turning it back on. I've very carefully not touched the AE-L button. In M mode still getting aperture changes when moving the shutter speed dial and vice-versa. Current settings: Link AF Point and AE - off AE-L with AF locked -off. Auto EV Compensation - off. ISO Sensitivity - 200. D-Range - off. That's the way mine is set up (FW v1.03) and the only way I can make it do what you say yours is doing is to press the AE-L button and then change one of the exposure settings. The only difference is I'm at ISO 100 (but it doesn't matter). That's with a DA*55 f1:1.4 lens on the camera. This DID come up in a recent thread but I think that guys camera was a K10d.

02-18-2011, 11:13 PM	#9
JeffJS Inactive Account Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Michigan, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 7,484	Originally posted by mysticcowboy I checked with 2 older lenses. When my F 50 1.7 was in automatic mode I get the shutter and aperture tied together. When I set the aperture with the lens ring, the shutter speed will work properly. The same thing happens with my 100mm macro. My Pentax 18-250 doesn't have an aperture ring and the shutter and aperture are synced. The shutter speed dial does work properly with my M 50 1.7 and the green button works the way it always does giving me about a stop and a half under exposure. So M does work with lenses with the aperture set via the aperture rings, but not when using the auto setting. I'm being very careful to not press the AE lock button. Okay, now I've played with the AE lock button, wondering if that's what's stuck. Maybe. Turning the camera off then on. I get the synced settings. If I push the AE lock button and take one exposure, then the dials will work properly until I turn the camera off. Distinctly odd. Removing the battery for a half hour doesn't help. I'll tried resetting the custom menu setting. No help. Might reinstalling the firmware fix this? If so, how is that done? This sounds like a hardware problem to me. If you want to try a firmware reload, Download the latest from here and follow the instructions in the TXT file. MAKE SURE YOUR BATTERY IS COMPLETELY CHARGED (yes, I meant to shout that out). Support & Service : PENTAX

02-18-2011, 11:27 PM	#10
mysticcowboy Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: port townsend, wa Photos: Albums Posts: 968 Original Poster	Thanks everybody. I'm afraid that JeffJS is probably right and this is a hardware problem. The camera is still usable. I'll just have to use M with lenses with aperture rings or stick with Av. I can live with that. Well, I want a K-5 anyway. I'll just have to get serious about saving for one. ---------- Post added 02-19-11 at 08:40 AM ---------- Fixed it. Hurray! Reinstalling the firmware solved the problem. Thanks again to everyone who helped me rule out camera settings.