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03-16-2011, 01:17 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by cats_five Quote
My own suggestion would be to calibrate the best monitor (for example if one is IPS and the other TN) with the XRite and do the other by hand so it looks neutral, ...
That's a pragmatic solution but the idea of a colour calibration device is that you don't have to eyeball a monitor's colours and adjust them manually. If the calibrator produces a pretty arbitrary profile for the cheaper monitor, who says the one for the better monitor is anywhere near faithful to what it should be? If there is a good match to prints that's obviously encouraging, provided that the printer profile has not been tweaked to match the monitor.

The assumption that it is not possible to get TN displays a 100% correct sounds plausible but on the other hand I have never seen a disclaimer with a calibrator stating that it doesn't work with a certain class of monitors.

To the OP: Make sure that the tint is not created by looking at the panel at a slight angle. If it is a TN panel than even a slight deviation from a perpendicular viewing angle can create colour tinges. With bigger displays the minimum angle imposed by short viewing distances is sufficient to create different tinges at the top vs the bottom.

03-16-2011, 03:36 PM   #17
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Well, I took the thing back and I'm the market for a new monitor. All the available ones at the big-box store were TFT TN style.

I'll be doing some hunting tonight, but if anyone has suggestions for a good monitor I'd love to hear them. (searches just don't seem to be my friend)

Wish I could afford another Apple Cinema display.
03-16-2011, 11:23 PM   #18
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What size are you looking for? Viewsonic do some cheap (!) IPS screens now, Eizo and La Cie both do them but are eyewateringly expensive, there are some Dell ones, I think there are some HP ones.
03-16-2011, 11:50 PM   #19
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NEC EA231WMi?

03-17-2011, 01:28 AM   #20
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Don't forget to consider DELL displays. They are typically a great choice for budget minded buyers.

Good value for money are the Dell U2311H and the Dell U2211H. Maybe these models are outdated already but they were good buys some time.
03-17-2011, 03:34 AM   #21
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Hi
If you are serious about colour output via your monitor which is reproducible and constant than I am afraid you will have to spend a bit of extra cash.

You need a monitor which is capable of a wide colour gamut. (14-bit 3D LUT, LUT= Look Up Table). A 14-bit LUT should be available either in your graphics card or be resident in the monitor itself. But a resident LUT you won't find in a cheap monitor.

I have the acclaimed NEC MultiSync PA 241w which can be calibrated either at monitor or graphics Card level. To calibrate at monitor level you need NEC's own SpectraViewII device and it does an absolute spectacular job.

I however use the ColorMunki Photo which calibrates the graphics Cart LUT (I have a good quality card) with outstanding precision and the Munki also allows me to create accurate printer profiles.

If you need to run two monitors, don't even think of using two different makes/technologies it will never work.

So, if you have a good camera, good lenses capable of accurate colour production, and then you buy a cheap monitor to work with these images you are barking up the wrong tree as they say in the classics.

Sorry for the bad news, but that's how it is.

Greetings from sunny Melbourne.
03-17-2011, 04:23 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Schraubstock Quote
You need a monitor which is capable of a wide colour gamut. (14-bit 3D LUT, LUT= Look Up Table).
I don't think one really needs a wide colour gamut unless your goal is to better predict prints from printers with a wide gamut.

If you use the monitor for anything else but photo viewing then -- I've read -- a wide gamut display can be problematic as it -- if properly calibrated for photo viewing -- will make the rest of the world (e.g., internet web pages) look like you are viewing them on a worn out CRT.

Furthermore, currently there are not many graphic cards support more than 8-bit per channel. Next your software has to provide support as well. It is a bit of a puzzle piece to get a >8-bit display running at the moment.

QuoteOriginally posted by Schraubstock Quote
If you need to run two monitors, don't even think of using two different makes/technologies it will never work.
So the claim that one should calibrate one's monitor to make sure that others see the photos the same way as you are seeing them is just a patent lie?

I realise that monitor calibration improves the display in a relative sense and should also nudge it towards a common standard, but not the typical claim about why to use colour management goes much further than that.
03-17-2011, 05:55 AM   #23
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Hi Class A
I am looking, right now, at internet pages on my wide gamut calibrated NEC monitor and nothing looks like a display on an old worn out CRT. Your observation is not true.

With my PENTAX I shoot raw in Adobe RGB and my NEC monitor does justice to to Adobe's RGB by covering 98.1% of this colour space. I do colour critical work right through to the printing stage and I could not do this any other way.

I understood people run two monitors next to each other in a work flow situation and if this is the case two different screens have to be the same (or at least near identical specs) for practical reasons.

If you just want to view pics, well I guess any monitor will do.

03-17-2011, 08:32 AM   #24
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Well, I got a "cheap" IPS monitor from ViewSonic. More than I wanted to spend, bit will hopefuly be close enough to what I want. I don't do color critical work, but they have to at least be in the ballpark... not one red face and one green face. :-) (sadly no local sellers... have to wait for shipment from Amazon)

Anyway, I always seem to get into arguments about the validity of color management, and it seems quite clear these devices do little for accurate representation... rather they work more towards keeping your local environment consistent, which you can then use as a basis to consistently a to make good prints. (e.g. make image look good, then add 10% red, and up the luminance 8%, the print should be good)

I always thought my old monitor was the problem... never expected new monitors to be soo bad.

Will be nice when the Mac OS and hardware supports 10bit color. Some of the new monitors look nice... of course I have to sell a lot more photos to make up that cost. :-)


Thanks again for everyones input. It is a bit of an eye opener.
03-17-2011, 09:40 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
I don't think one really needs a wide colour gamut unless your goal is to better predict prints from printers with a wide gamut.
Unless the monitor has a gamut at least as big as the colour space you are calibrating to it will never, ever be able to show the correct colours.
03-17-2011, 12:10 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by amoringello Quote

Anyway, I always seem to get into arguments about the validity of color management, and it seems quite clear these devices do little for accurate representation... rather they work more towards keeping your local environment consistent, which you can then use as a basis to consistently a to make good prints. (e.g. make image look good, then add 10% red, and up the luminance 8%, the print should be good)
Some calibrators don't work so well with LCD panels. When I was using a Spyder that predated flat screens, I had problems with calibration. I updated my hardware to an Eye1 and my good quality screen matches my printer output very closely.
My TN panel is hopeless, so i don't really worry about it all that much. I use it for Photoshop palettes and email and that's about it.
03-17-2011, 04:45 PM   #27
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If anyone is running windows vista

If you are running windows vista (possibly windows 7 as well) the profile that your calibrator makes will not be the default until you change the default with admin. rights (default is s xxxx which is colors for the web, not calibrated colors)

start>control panel>color management>> first make sure that your icc profile generated by your calibrator shows up, if not you will have to find it. If you have dual monitors, then there should be xxx1, xxx2.icc.
>>click the advanced tab>MAKE SURE YOU HAVE THE PROPER MONITOR SELECTED>>
then click advanced setting>choose your icc for monitor one, set it as default and accept it. after this, you need to do the same with monitor 2, if you don't monitor 1's profile will be assigned to monitor 2!!
found all this out the hard way when my second monitor looked very different then the first.

if anyone doesn't understand please pm me and I will try to help you figure it out

cheers

randy
03-17-2011, 04:57 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by Schraubstock Quote
I am looking, right now, at internet pages on my wide gamut calibrated NEC monitor and nothing looks like a display on an old worn out CRT. Your observation is not true.
It isn't "my observation". I wrote that I read about it. If anyone is interested, I'm pretty sure I came across someone stating it while reading the "10 Bit Color In LR 3.3" thread which links to the "Do I even want a Wide Gamut Monitor 2011?" thread at Adobe Forums.
It sounded plausible to me since unless the lower gamut space is scaled up for display on a wide gamut monitor, there should be an issue, right?

QuoteOriginally posted by Schraubstock Quote
I understood people run two monitors next to each other in a work flow situation and if this is the case two different screens have to be the same (or at least near identical specs) for practical reasons.
Maybe it is a good idea to have different monitors in order to be able to see what others might see?


QuoteOriginally posted by Schraubstock Quote
If you just want to view pics, well I guess any monitor will do.
Who was that remark for?
03-17-2011, 09:04 PM   #29
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Sorry, the "you" was certainly not aimed at you, better would have been to say: "If one wants to view...

Greetings
03-18-2011, 01:52 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by Schraubstock Quote
Class A
Sorry, the "you" was certainly not aimed at you, better would have been to say: "If one wants to view...
All good.
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