Color calibration - monitors are not even similar

amoringello · 03-15-2011, 03:27 AM

I have the XRite (GretagMcbeth?) EyeOne Display 2 device and using their software to calibrate and profile my two monitors. Using Mac OS X 10.6.6.
They are not the same brand so I don't expect perfection.

Sadly, after several tries I end up with one monitor being much brighter than the other and one monitor being more reddish than the other. I would expect colors to be a closer match.

The resulting profile for each monitor shows the output to be very similar with regards to Current and Target luminance and color matching.

But how can that be? If one is more red, or one is more green, I would expect some significant difference in the final profile results...

Although I do not expect an exact match, I would expect middle gray to be closely similar.

Any ideas on getting a consistent match between monitors?
Or how do I know which is correct? :-)

cats_five · 03-15-2011, 04:34 AM

One of the monitors might not be capable of displaying the full gaumut of colours required - for example if one is a TN panel and the other an IPS.

Also are both set to the same colour temperature (6500K)?

And have you looked for support on the Xrite website? They might have a forum, or there might be one somewhere else.

wlachan · 03-15-2011, 04:43 AM

Don't feel bad. I have 1 IPS, 2 CRT and 2 TN notebooks. All calibrated with the same i1D2, all with different colour casts. I reckon colorimeters really are cheap alternatives to commercial products, and consumer monitors made it worse. Also, QC is rather loose (I have owned 3 i1D2 and they produce different casts). I have never used Spyder3 but it probably has the same limitation. Get a pair of identical IPS if you demand perfection (doesn't exist actually, but you can get close), or if you have TN LCDs, good luck. However, if it produces heavy red cast with IPS LCD, time for another i1D2.

ovim · 03-15-2011, 12:01 PM

Lately I've been running a dual monitor setup using one S-PVA and one TN screen. I've calibrated both using Huey Pro and they ended up looking quite different. So I decided S-PVA is "right" and adjusted the other monitor to look the same (to my eyes).

amoringello · 03-15-2011, 01:07 PM

Rats, thats what I was afraid I'd hear. erg!
I would have expected some gamut differences, but would also have hoped that the RGB values for gray were at least made somewhat equal.

Anyway, I finally adjusted the one monitor by hand and things look rather decent.
For the PassportColorChecker splotches, both monitors look pretty good. For other colors, there are variances but not as bad as what the EyeOne gave. Just very odd.

I'm not doing automobile magazine work, so I can probably live with the result.

Thanks for letting me know I'm not alone. :-)

normhead · 03-15-2011, 01:34 PM

We just gave up on this issue. We have two fairly cheap second monitors for our Macs. I quickly realized the pictures I post here are not going to look the same on each monitor. One of the reason I bought the big ass display , 27 inch was to get away from using two monitors. If I was to buy one now for my laptop, I'd by an Apple on and use the provided profile. Hopefully it would be a similar display and give me similar results.

slip · 03-15-2011, 05:18 PM

Is your software up to date? wish I was running a mac.... have an eye-one display with windows, no color casts but one is a bit darker then the other.
Is the gamma set the same on both monitors?

cheers

randy

Class A · 03-15-2011, 05:25 PM

I also used an EyeOne for calibrating two monitors and while each improved individually, they ended up with drastically different tints. So much for hoping to achieve repeatability.

My assumption is that a monitor needs to have a minimum quality to be fully calibrated. Both of the two monitors I calibrated are rather cheap and I guess one cannot expect more with such hardware. While I could get them closer by hand tweaking one, it was impossible to find settings that made them show the same tint for all colours. I guess that's a sign that the hardware is lacking and that it is not fair to expect the EyeOne to do a perfect job.

The experiences posted here show that "calibration" as such is no guarantee that colours are repeatable across different monitors. Apparently, the monitors need to have a minimum quality as well. Or is it a known problem between high-end monitors from different brands as well?

Wheatfield · 03-15-2011, 06:44 PM

Originally posted by Class A

I also used an EyeOne for calibrating two monitors and while each improved individually, they ended up with drastically different tints. So much for hoping to achieve repeatability.

My assumption is that a monitor needs to have a minimum quality to be fully calibrated. Both of the two monitors I calibrated are rather cheap and I guess one cannot expect more with such hardware. While I could get them closer by hand tweaking one, it was impossible to find settings that made them show the same tint for all colours. I guess that's a sign that the hardware is lacking and that it is not fair to expect the EyeOne to do a perfect job.

The experiences posted here show that "calibration" as such is no guarantee that colours are repeatable across different monitors. Apparently, the monitors need to have a minimum quality as well. Or is it a known problem between high-end monitors from different brands as well?

I ended up calibrating my second (and very cheap) monitor by eye using my good monitor as a reference.
I figured I couldn't do worse, and I was correct.

Class A · 03-15-2011, 08:46 PM

Originally posted by Wheatfield

I ended up calibrating my second (and very cheap) monitor by eye using my good monitor as a reference.
I figured I couldn't do worse, and I was correct.

Did you get them close to each other?

My two are not night and day, but I'd definitely tweak an image differently on one compared to the other.

Not sure if another calibrator (e.g., ColorMunki which is a spectrophotometer rather than a colorimeter) might do a better job. I guess not and that it's mainly the cheap TN displays (which have a bit of a pathetic tolerance regarding the viewing angle).

Wheatfield · 03-15-2011, 09:02 PM

I decided that I was going to trust the colour of my 1k Lacie monitor vs my Samsung cheap as dirt TN panel, so I calibrated both and then used the controls on the Samsung to get them as close as I could using the adjustments on the monitor.
It's pretty arbitrary, if I move my head 6 inches, the Samsung changes, but I can live with it now.

amoringello · 03-16-2011, 03:24 AM

Sadly, one is so pink, that if I read a web page from it for more than five seconds, my eyes adjust enough that the other screen now looks sickly green. It is a huge difference

I could accept some slight differences, e.g. if the calibration unit says gray is 127,127,127, I might expect the other monitor to be close... perhaps 125, 127, 130? Here is it like 180,127,127.
Not sure how the colorimeter finds that within an acceptable range and not adjust the LUT to a better value.

I would have hoped the calibration would simply create larger holes and less smooth gradients as it remaps displayable colors into the correct positions. it has obviously done this in the darker tones... detail areas from my main monitor are splotchy on the second monitor.

I'm thinking I may take this one back and give another one a go.

cats_five · 03-16-2011, 04:38 AM

You haven't said what the two monitors are, or what the panel technology is. My own suggestion would be to calibrate the best monitor (for example if one is IPS and the other TN) with the XRite and do the other by hand so it looks neutral, then put the actual image you are editing on the correct one and the toolbars and so on on the other one.

BTW you have checked they are both the correct colour temperature and gamma?

amoringello · 03-16-2011, 01:06 PM

Both are LED backlit, one is an iMac Cinema display, the other doesn't say what it is and I don't know enough about them to guess.

I'm assuming the iMac as the base/correct monitor. Prints come out pretty darned close to the display version.

Sadly, I have not found a setting that allows the other monitor to look neutral.
If I manually adjust grey to look somewhat normal, everything else is way off.
I can get one color to look good at a time.

I think I just have to return this thing until I find one that works well/better.

cats_five · 03-16-2011, 01:13 PM

It sounds like the problem is the non-iMac monitor, not the Xrite or the iMac monitor. it looks like the iMac might be an IPS panel:

Apple - LED Cinema Display

If so it should be fairly accurate, whereas the other one sounds like it's a brand X, so I imagine will be a rather cheap TN panel that will never be accurate whatever you do with it.

03-15-2011, 03:27 AM	#1
amoringello Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Virginia, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,562	Color calibration - monitors are not even similar I have the XRite (GretagMcbeth?) EyeOne Display 2 device and using their software to calibrate and profile my two monitors. Using Mac OS X 10.6.6. They are not the same brand so I don't expect perfection. Sadly, after several tries I end up with one monitor being much brighter than the other and one monitor being more reddish than the other. I would expect colors to be a closer match. The resulting profile for each monitor shows the output to be very similar with regards to Current and Target luminance and color matching. But how can that be? If one is more red, or one is more green, I would expect some significant difference in the final profile results... Although I do not expect an exact match, I would expect middle gray to be closely similar. Any ideas on getting a consistent match between monitors? Or how do I know which is correct? :-)

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03-15-2011, 04:34 AM	#2
cats_five Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Fife, Scotland Posts: 835	One of the monitors might not be capable of displaying the full gaumut of colours required - for example if one is a TN panel and the other an IPS. Also are both set to the same colour temperature (6500K)? And have you looked for support on the Xrite website? They might have a forum, or there might be one somewhere else.

03-15-2011, 04:43 AM	#3
wlachan Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Canada Photos: Albums Posts: 2,625	Don't feel bad. I have 1 IPS, 2 CRT and 2 TN notebooks. All calibrated with the same i1D2, all with different colour casts. I reckon colorimeters really are cheap alternatives to commercial products, and consumer monitors made it worse. Also, QC is rather loose (I have owned 3 i1D2 and they produce different casts). I have never used Spyder3 but it probably has the same limitation. Get a pair of identical IPS if you demand perfection (doesn't exist actually, but you can get close), or if you have TN LCDs, good luck. However, if it produces heavy red cast with IPS LCD, time for another i1D2.

03-15-2011, 12:01 PM	#4
ovim Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Tre, Finland Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,229	Lately I've been running a dual monitor setup using one S-PVA and one TN screen. I've calibrated both using Huey Pro and they ended up looking quite different. So I decided S-PVA is "right" and adjusted the other monitor to look the same (to my eyes).

03-15-2011, 01:07 PM	#5
amoringello Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Virginia, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,562 Original Poster	Rats, thats what I was afraid I'd hear. erg! I would have expected some gamut differences, but would also have hoped that the RGB values for gray were at least made somewhat equal. Anyway, I finally adjusted the one monitor by hand and things look rather decent. For the PassportColorChecker splotches, both monitors look pretty good. For other colors, there are variances but not as bad as what the EyeOne gave. Just very odd. I'm not doing automobile magazine work, so I can probably live with the result. Thanks for letting me know I'm not alone. :-)

03-15-2011, 01:34 PM	#6
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	We just gave up on this issue. We have two fairly cheap second monitors for our Macs. I quickly realized the pictures I post here are not going to look the same on each monitor. One of the reason I bought the big ass display , 27 inch was to get away from using two monitors. If I was to buy one now for my laptop, I'd by an Apple on and use the provided profile. Hopefully it would be a similar display and give me similar results.

03-15-2011, 05:18 PM	#7
slip Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: 2 hours north of toronto ontario canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,535	Is your software up to date? wish I was running a mac.... have an eye-one display with windows, no color casts but one is a bit darker then the other. Is the gamma set the same on both monitors? cheers randy

03-15-2011, 05:25 PM	#8
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251	I also used an EyeOne for calibrating two monitors and while each improved individually, they ended up with drastically different tints. So much for hoping to achieve repeatability. My assumption is that a monitor needs to have a minimum quality to be fully calibrated. Both of the two monitors I calibrated are rather cheap and I guess one cannot expect more with such hardware. While I could get them closer by hand tweaking one, it was impossible to find settings that made them show the same tint for all colours. I guess that's a sign that the hardware is lacking and that it is not fair to expect the EyeOne to do a perfect job. The experiences posted here show that "calibration" as such is no guarantee that colours are repeatable across different monitors. Apparently, the monitors need to have a minimum quality as well. Or is it a known problem between high-end monitors from different brands as well?

03-15-2011, 06:44 PM	#9
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,981	Originally posted by Class A I also used an EyeOne for calibrating two monitors and while each improved individually, they ended up with drastically different tints. So much for hoping to achieve repeatability. My assumption is that a monitor needs to have a minimum quality to be fully calibrated. Both of the two monitors I calibrated are rather cheap and I guess one cannot expect more with such hardware. While I could get them closer by hand tweaking one, it was impossible to find settings that made them show the same tint for all colours. I guess that's a sign that the hardware is lacking and that it is not fair to expect the EyeOne to do a perfect job. The experiences posted here show that "calibration" as such is no guarantee that colours are repeatable across different monitors. Apparently, the monitors need to have a minimum quality as well. Or is it a known problem between high-end monitors from different brands as well? I ended up calibrating my second (and very cheap) monitor by eye using my good monitor as a reference. I figured I couldn't do worse, and I was correct.

03-15-2011, 08:46 PM	#10
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251	Originally posted by Wheatfield I ended up calibrating my second (and very cheap) monitor by eye using my good monitor as a reference. I figured I couldn't do worse, and I was correct. Did you get them close to each other? My two are not night and day, but I'd definitely tweak an image differently on one compared to the other. Not sure if another calibrator (e.g., ColorMunki which is a spectrophotometer rather than a colorimeter) might do a better job. I guess not and that it's mainly the cheap TN displays (which have a bit of a pathetic tolerance regarding the viewing angle).

03-15-2011, 09:02 PM	#11
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,981	I decided that I was going to trust the colour of my 1k Lacie monitor vs my Samsung cheap as dirt TN panel, so I calibrated both and then used the controls on the Samsung to get them as close as I could using the adjustments on the monitor. It's pretty arbitrary, if I move my head 6 inches, the Samsung changes, but I can live with it now.

03-16-2011, 03:24 AM	#12
amoringello Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Virginia, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,562 Original Poster	Sadly, one is so pink, that if I read a web page from it for more than five seconds, my eyes adjust enough that the other screen now looks sickly green. It is a huge difference I could accept some slight differences, e.g. if the calibration unit says gray is 127,127,127, I might expect the other monitor to be close... perhaps 125, 127, 130? Here is it like 180,127,127. Not sure how the colorimeter finds that within an acceptable range and not adjust the LUT to a better value. I would have hoped the calibration would simply create larger holes and less smooth gradients as it remaps displayable colors into the correct positions. it has obviously done this in the darker tones... detail areas from my main monitor are splotchy on the second monitor. I'm thinking I may take this one back and give another one a go.

03-16-2011, 04:38 AM	#13
cats_five Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Fife, Scotland Posts: 835	You haven't said what the two monitors are, or what the panel technology is. My own suggestion would be to calibrate the best monitor (for example if one is IPS and the other TN) with the XRite and do the other by hand so it looks neutral, then put the actual image you are editing on the correct one and the toolbars and so on on the other one. BTW you have checked they are both the correct colour temperature and gamma?

03-16-2011, 01:06 PM	#14
amoringello Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Virginia, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,562 Original Poster	Both are LED backlit, one is an iMac Cinema display, the other doesn't say what it is and I don't know enough about them to guess. I'm assuming the iMac as the base/correct monitor. Prints come out pretty darned close to the display version. Sadly, I have not found a setting that allows the other monitor to look neutral. If I manually adjust grey to look somewhat normal, everything else is way off. I can get one color to look good at a time. I think I just have to return this thing until I find one that works well/better.

03-16-2011, 01:13 PM	#15
cats_five Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Fife, Scotland Posts: 835	It sounds like the problem is the non-iMac monitor, not the Xrite or the iMac monitor. it looks like the iMac might be an IPS panel: Apple - LED Cinema Display If so it should be fairly accurate, whereas the other one sounds like it's a brand X, so I imagine will be a rather cheap TN panel that will never be accurate whatever you do with it.