[Saltydog]

Hi everyone-

After a great deal of wrestling in my mind, I have decided to pass on the new high end sophisticated Point and Shoots such as the Olympus XZ-1 and Panasonic LX-5. I have been using a Powershot P & S for about 5 years and am tired of limited IQ. I have mostly settled on a getting a Pentax DSLR of some type.

I am essentially very ignorant regarding DSLR except for what I have been able to learn from the internet the past couple of months. I need to decide soon so I can have some experience before an 8 day backpacking trip this summer to Isle Royale.

My situation:

I am active as a Boy Scout leader and like to take pictures for our web page, slide shows etc.

Conditions encountered:

Winter camping for several nights at a time. Easily cold as 0 F at night. Also take pictures when snowing, including skiing shots, etc.

Photos taken around the campfire. Photos taken of kids doing merit badges such as boating, shooting, etc.

Camera carried on multi-day backpacking trips of 15-45 miles in length. People shots as well as landscape.


My kids are in high school and I would like to be able to take photos of wrestling and volleyball matches in gyms of varying light conditions. Also take pictures in low light such as the end of year banquets etc.

I would really like like to be able to get into some macro type shots in the future.

Because I am so new to this I am wondering if starting out with a relatively inexpensive K-x would be best to learn on and also minimize lost money if I determine that DSLR is not for me. I know that it is not weather sealed, but is that a problem that can be dealt with in other ways?

or would it make more sense to start with a K-7 which is weather resistant. I am concerned about what I have read regarding low light performance. The k-7 does still perk my interest.

It seems like the k-5 would be hard for me to justify the cost at this point, but I have considered it. But it would certainly limit my ability to buy lenses right now.

Maybe a k-x with a WR lense or two in case I upgrade cameras at a later date?

and what about lenses? Just the kit lens (es) for now until I get things figured out better. Or a kit lense and a prime? What lense set-up would be good for long backpacking trips. 18-55 wr or?



Just looking for a little input to help me figure things out. Thanks!

[hoanpham]

Winter camping for several nights at a time. Easily cold as 0 F at night. Also take pictures when snowing, including skiing shots, etc.

Weather and cold resistant: Limited to K7 or K5, may be K20. I have 2x K20 and used them at -20C no problem at all.

Photos taken around the campfire. Photos taken of kids doing merit badges such as boating, shooting, etc.

Low light: Limited to K5, which is currently the best low light with crop factor.

I selected the K20 for low light and cost while I can get the K7 when it came out 2-3 months, but still then, the low light performance was not fixed after a long time.

Go for DA* or WR lenses, they are weather resistant as well. I read a lot about SDM problems, but my 50-135 never fails. Unless needed WR, I use old primes.

Hope this helps.

[hcc]

Welcome to the forum.

I shoot outdoor typically and sometimes in low light. Let me share my own experience and thoughts. From your description of your needs, I believe that you would be better off with a WR body, preferably the K-7 or K-5 because their body is compact and very solid. (K-7 and K-5 have the same body.)

Low light shooting will always be a challenge with any camera, although the K-5 might be superior at High-ISO. I think that you need to consider directly to buy a fast prime lens: ie, a large aperture lens (or low f) like a f1.4. There are several great fast prime with K-mount incl. the Pentax 50mm lenses (MF f1.2, f1.7) , the FA 50mm (AF f1.4), ... There are even some great lenses like the Carl Zeiss 50mm f1.4, Voigtlander Nokton 58mm f1.4. Since you shoot outdoor, you want a solid lens (not necessarily WR, but with a proven track record).


Based upon my own experience incl. backpacking with my K-7, my favourite setup for such activity is:
- K-7 + DA18-250mm for day time, and
- K-7 + Voigtlander Nokton 58mm f1.4 for dusk, dawn and night time.

I have the K-7 mounted with the relevant lens, and the spare lens in my backpack. The DA18-250mm is a great all-around lens, ideal for daytime. The Voigtlander 58mm f1.4 is a fast prime (MF) that is very robust.

Note: Both the DA18-250mm and Nokton 58mm are not officially WR, but these lenses are very, very sturdy. Many Pentaxians used them outdoor incl. in the rain, snow, and ice, mud, dust...

See also the threads:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/106600-k-7-high-is...gh+iso+success
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/135851-how-elminat...gh+iso+success
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/135402-does-k-7-ge...gh+iso+success

Hope of these comments will help...

[JeffJS]

Welcome aboard.

From reading your requirements, there isn't going to be any one fix all solution for you. I would definitely take a hard look at the K5 for both the weather proofing and the low light capability. That is not to say that the K7 (or K20d) is incapable, it isn't. For a starter, run with the 18-55 WR kit lens that comes with unless you think you can spring for the 18-135 (WR). The kit lens isn't great compared to the other offerings but it isn't terrible either. It will get you there.

[jolepp]

The K-x is almost as good as the K-5 for low light and quite a bargain pricewise, also a bit smaller and lighter. With reasonable care it should do just fine, this is mostly about having a reasonably weatherproof bag for it IMO. Ìn cold weather there is the option of using lithium AA batteries which should be practically immune to cold. Getting into macro is more about having a suitable lens than about the body. In case birds and such are of interest there is the relatively inexpensive, light and compact Pentax DA/DAL 55-300mm which can combined with a Raynox 150 for the next best thing to a dedicated macro lens. The Tamron 17-50mm 1:2.8 would be worth checking out for low light (and general purpose) use as well,

[Wombat]

I'd go for a K7. The issue with low light is relative, ie it's not as good as some other cameras such as the k-x. But with good lenses and technique you can still get fine results in low light settings. I find the noise it produces in those situations is far less objectionable than other cameras I have and will certainly be light years ahead of the p&s you've been used to. For the type of uses you've mentioned it's a well-priced, tough, versatile camera. As for lenses, I wouldn't go rushing into primes just yet. You sound like someone who's on the move a lot, so having to stop and change lenses might be a royal pain for you. For the price, I'd just play around with the kit lens for a while and decide whether you need more reach, more width, more light etc., then shop around. They'll never run out of lenses!

[Saltydog]

Thanks for all of the great information! This is going to help me significantly. I appreciate all of you taking the time to respond.

[leadfoot]

I second the vote for a K-x/K-r. AA lithium batteries are great, with easily 1500+ shots on a set, and they are very cold tolerant. If the lithium's are relatively new, you don't need to carry spares (fingers crossed). Weight is always a primary concern hiking or backpacking, and it's hard to beat a K-x/K-r plus lithium's for a lightweight dSLR rig.

With no lens attached, with SD card, measured:
K-x + lithium: 1 lb, 4 oz (440 grams)
K-x + Eneloop: 1 lb, 6 oz (484 grams)
K-5 + battery: 1 lb, 11 oz (594 grams)

Of course, the K-5 is a more bombproof camera, but it's also 3 times the price of a K-x. ISO performance is very similar, both best in class, more or less. The difference in resolution, 12MP to 16MP is noticeable, but only when pixel peeping.

I'd get a K-x/K-r body only, and a 18-55mm WR, and a neoprene cover/case to start with, and see what focal lengths you shoot most. Maybe the new 18-135mm WR lens for more money. $75 will get you a used A50/1.7 for low light. Minimal investment, minimal weight.

It's the lenses. Bodies come and go, but lenses should be forever. You can always upgrade to the latest and greatest body.

[ramseybuckeye]

You can get rain sleeves for pretty cheap and they work well. I have a K20D which is sealed, but no sealed lenses. The rain sleeves (2 for 8) work well if you don't want to fork over a lot of money for WR. You definitely need some low light lenses. Since this is your initial DSLR I would recommend auto focus lenses. There are some good deals on manual focus lenses, but I would not want to rely on them, it takes a little time to learn to focus well and it's hardest in low light. I don't mean to say don't try a manual focus, just don't put all your eggs in one basket. The DA 35/2.4 is a relatively reasonably priced fast prime lens. Perhaps a fast wide angle zoom like the Tamron 17-50mm 1:2.8 would serve you well, but may cost more than the camera, but as stated earlier by Leadfoot "It's the lenses". Good luck in whatever you get! Once you have the equipment, there are a lot of helpful people at this forum.

[HEEGZ]

If you want to get the best all-weather camera for the least price I would recommend one camera and two lenses. Get the K7 with the 18-55mm WR kit lens. This will be your setup for inclement weather and gives decent performance. For low light situations you can grab the DA 35mm f2.4 AL prime lens which is very affordable and has incredible performance in low light and other applications as well. I own all of these and use them for hiking and low light applications and they work extremely well for both applications.

The K7 is at a sweet spot for pricing right now, and it would be a shame to get a non-WR body and lens combo for your usage. This body with the two lenses I've mentioned will have you covered for all weather scenarios as well as your low light situations without breaking the bank. Good luck!

[Ratmagiclady]

Depending what kind of budget you're looking at, the new 18-135 WR, plus a faster prime lens of some kind would be a tempting lens combo to start with, I think. The zoom for walkaround purposes, and the prime to go on when it starts getting dark or you want to travel lighter.

[cats_five]

You don't need a massive original image for web pages, slide shows and so on. I'm also wondering how much you are carrying the camera around - a good P&S can be far easier than a DSLR if you have to do lots of carrying. You also haven't said in what way the IQ is limited, and finally if you read a bit here you will find quite a few people who have switched from P&S and are deeply disappointed with the results as getting the best from a DSLR isn't a matter of P&S....

[Jake]

and finally if you read a bit here you will find quite a few people who have switched from P&S and are deeply disappointed with the results as getting the best from a DSLR isn't a matter of P&S....

i'll second that, i bought a K10D a couple of years back (my first SLR) and it took a lot of work to get anywhere near point and shoot quality images - all operator error!

[Saltydog]

Catsfive and Jake you do bring up a good point. I have gone back and forth on the good point and shoot option many times.

I am interested in trying to find some creative outlet in my life and thought maybe I could pair up what I already do with taking better, interesting pictures. However, I am rather ignorant regarding the learning curve in switching to DSLR.


Some areas of frustration for me have also been:

1) Delayed time between pushing the button and the camera actually taking a picture (especially when trying to capture my daughter in volleyball).

The ridiculous amount of time it takes for me to take another shot after taking a picture.


Maybe these have been rectified with newer high end point and shoots.

Thanks for your interest!

Also, how good of a lens is the 18-135 WR? I have read a few negative reviews.

[Chex]

I think the 18-135 will be a decent lens, I've seen some nice crisp shots from some, just not mine, so it's going to get serviced. If you get a good copy your set, if not Pentax will/should take care of it for you. Hard to beat the wide range and weather sealing. You would probably need a faster lens for around the campfire, as some stated before you can get a fast 50mm for cheap new or used.

As for the learning curve of using a DSLR, you can get a head start by using your M mode on your point and shoot and learning your basics on it. In manual mode you control everything, and all DSLR's now days have modes to help you by letting you control one or two aspects (like shutter speed) and let the camera control the rest. Now days the learning curve is not nearly what it used to be in manual focusing film SLR's.

Other than using a DSLR there are some really good super zooms on the market as well. But if your already leaning towards a DSLR I would not want to steer you otherwise.. from a creative standpoint the abilities of a DSLR are hard to compare against any P&S.. I guess some of the interchangeable lens micro 4/3's etc are pretty slick.