Software...

DaveHolmes · 03-31-2011, 12:41 PM

I do struggle with PP... FACT...
Try to do as little as possible...

Currently using Lightroom... Love the editing and manipulation... Hate the workflow... Have lost images I liked due to its/my stupidity...

Photoshop... Love the lack of workflow... Hate the interface...

GIMP... ARRGGHH... How d'you make it work?!?!?!

A friend suggested 'Paintshop Photo Pro X3' (made by Corel). Anyone know if it's any good?
Is its workflow set-up more user intuative than Lightroom?
Can the workflow part of the programme be bypassed? (not possible in LR)

Ideally I want something where I can open a file straight from windows, fix it up fairly quickly and press 'ctrl+S' and it be where I left it... Looking good...

Adam · 03-31-2011, 12:52 PM

I'd take another stab at photoshop.

Open file
Control+shift+L
Control+shift+I
Control+S
Control+W

Levels fixed, photo resized, saved, closed. You don't even really need your mouse!

loco · 03-31-2011, 12:59 PM

Since you already have Lightroom, you might check out Scott Kelby's Lightroom book. It is really very helpful, and I learned a lot about the organizing features of the software. It's actually extremely powerful if you take the time to learn it. I went through similar problems when I first started using it, but after reading the book, I have really come to appreciate how great the program is at organizing and processing photos.

theunartist · 03-31-2011, 03:21 PM

Originally posted by DaveHolmes

I do struggle with PP... FACT...
Try to do as little as possible...

Currently using Lightroom... Love the editing and manipulation... Hate the workflow... Have lost images I liked due to its/my stupidity...

Photoshop... Love the lack of workflow... Hate the interface...

GIMP... ARRGGHH... How d'you make it work?!?!?!

A friend suggested 'Paintshop Photo Pro X3' (made by Corel). Anyone know if it's any good?
Is its workflow set-up more user intuative than Lightroom?
Can the workflow part of the programme be bypassed? (not possible in LR)

I use all that you have mentioned in your post, except LR.

They all have their strong points and bad points... The worst part for me, I don't have them all on one machine, so sometimes it's a PC and sometimes it's a Mac. My favorite would be Photoshop for prepping files I plan to be printed, Corel is nice all around with, IMHO, the best built in Noise Reduction plugin but does not convert Raw to Jpeg very well, and Gimp is a huge learning curve but the potential is absolutely there if you have the patience!

At this point unless I plan to do more than post it on the internet somewhere, something like Faststone or Picasa does it for me. I don't even work on Raw files unless I plan to print or more, so everything is from a good jpeg file.

It all depends on your expectations and quality of original file, whether Raw or Jpeg. Picasa http://picasa.google.com/ and Faststone FastStone Image Viewer, Screen Capture, Photo Resizer ... will open just about any Raw file out there. On Picasa, you work on an image and it automatically saves it with the option to undo to original file, on Faststone you will need to save and no turning back. BUT Faststone can do just a little bit more than Picasa. Neither have any Noise Reduction option which is a bummer!

Quote:

Ideally I want something where I can open a file straight from windows, fix it up fairly quickly and press 'ctrl+S' and it be where I left it... Looking good...

Short answer would be Picasa, if you're working on a good image to start with

, works on a PC as well as an Intel Mac... Good luck, Have fun - Rick

Last edited by theunartist; 03-31-2011 at 04:22 PM.

Coeurdechene · 03-31-2011, 05:15 PM

If you struggle with PP and try to do as litle as possible the Gimp is a no no..it has an awfull learning curve..can't talk about LR...Photoshop is fine.
BUT if you shoot RAW i think something like Rawtherapee suits you well..intuitive, easy to use, and very proficient for the normal PP you usually do if you're not into extensive retouching. Problem: it's testing software and as such it's kind of unstable.
other good things: Open source and good comunity.

snostorm · 03-31-2011, 06:36 PM

Hi Dave,

I use PSPPX2, and prefer the browsing/editing transitions to X3 by a longshot. I've tried many versions of Photoshop and always find the interface totally non intuitive -- but I've used PSP since it was shareware, so I'd expect the interface to work better for me. Friends that I've shown both programs to seem to find PS considerably more challenging to learn, but this might be a "birds of a feather" thing. . .

I have both PSP X and X2 loaded on my Windows 7 Ultra 64, and use X for quick and rough editing and X2 for more extensive or critical stuff.

X indexes the thumbnails in a separate file within each folder of pics, and X2 uses a single file, which I don't like as the file gets really large and can get corrupted with a large quantity of image files, or at least that's my guess. I have over 100K image files that I play with, and it can be cumbersome for the program. I only keep relatively current folders in play with X2, and use X for the rest. X2 seems to have a better downsizing algorithm, so I prefer this for processing images to post on the web.

I use Topaz Denoise and Infocus, plus Focus Magic as my main plugins. Most PS plugins are PSP compatible, but not all by any means, and this is a very significant consideration, IMO.

I think you can still get X2 for @ $25, and probably X3 for less than $100 and they are very capable editors for jpegs, but they aren't generally highly regarded or considered as RAW converters if you need this as an integrated function. I shoot jpegs, so this is obviously not a high priority consideration for me.

You can download a demo of PSPP X3 to check out for a month for free. You still might be able to download previous versions as demos or evn possibly freeware, but I really haven't looked. . .

Just my 2¢ FWIW. . .

Scott

DaveHolmes · 04-01-2011, 06:07 AM

Cheers all... As per... Lots of usefulness...

Have downloaded Picasa... Editing is minimal but just enough for most of my needs at this point... Love that it just finds my pics from where its told to look automatically... Very intuative interface and easy to get along with... Shame it has not the editing power of LR3 but I guess for free you can't quibble...

Ideal software for me would be a cross 'tween LR&Picasa at this point...

Cheers again guys
Dave

Colbyt · 04-01-2011, 12:36 PM

I agree with Adam except I always add two extra steps which might solve your problems with any of these programs.

Open file
Duplicate image
close original, work on the copy

No matter how badly you screw up you can not lose the original image if you do it this way.

loco · 04-01-2011, 12:44 PM

That's why I like Lightroom. You don't lose anything. Any changes you make are not permanent until you actually export the photo. But they also give the option to make a virtual copy so that you can try different settings on the same image and compare, again without ever damaging or changing any original.

BirdDude007 · 04-01-2011, 04:50 PM

I must be pretty rare around here, I use mainly Camera Raw 6 and then work on my images in PS CS5, any work I do with my images is nondestructive and it makes it so that I can keep just the one image if I want no matter what I do to it. When I work on the image it is then saved as editing information attached to the original raw file, I can work on an image, rework on it and just literally change it as many times as I like and even if it is five years down the road I can always revert the file right back to the "fresh off the 'ol sensor" image.
Once I learned Camera Raw I actually don't bogg my computer down anymore with many different copies of single images that I have worked on.
It keeps me more organized.

Barry_S · 04-01-2011, 05:20 PM

I'm with you bird. I do 90% in Camera Raw, then move to cs5 for the final touchups. You can do a lot of stuff in Camera Raw 6.

tibbitts · 04-01-2011, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Have lost images I liked due to its/my stupidity...

With the low cost of storage, you should duplicate your images before you get involved with PP. You might still lose some of your PP images - I've done that too. But as long as you have the original, you can recreate whatever you lose.

Paul

subeeds · 04-02-2011, 04:22 PM

A few weeks ago, I came across a new image editor called SageLight. I downloaded the free 30 day trial, then ended up buying it for $39.95 on sale. I love it! It's easy to use,there are all kinds of tutorials on YouTube for it and the learning curve almost does not exits. It's still on sale while the guy works on adding some things to it. Here's a link to the SageLight blog if you want to take a look at it. Sagelight Image Editor Blog & Newsletter | Things going on with Sagelight 48-bit Image Editor

5teve · 04-02-2011, 06:42 PM

Originally posted by DaveHolmes

Currently using Lightroom... Love the editing and manipulation... Hate the workflow... Have lost images I liked due to its/my stupidity...

How did you manage this? I find its actually quite difficult to lose images in Lightroom as deletion is not prefered option!

The thing is with Lightroom, is once you understand the concept, the rest becomes quite easy. Essentially you work on an image via a database of changes, you never touch the original, which is why you have to export the image, so that the software can 'apply' your pp to it. If you want to work on variations of the same image you create virtual copies and export these, at no point do you have more than 1 original and that original is kept safe from any changes at all...

Its worth persevering and reading up on... i personally find it one of the best peices of software i have used.. but then again i dont do huge amounts of pp, just corrections generally.. and use it as a file catalogue!

Steve

BirdDude007 · 04-04-2011, 05:45 PM

Originally posted by 5teve

How did you manage this? I find its actually quite difficult to lose images in Lightroom as deletion is not prefered option!

The thing is with Lightroom, is once you understand the concept, the rest becomes quite easy. Essentially you work on an image via a database of changes, you never touch the original, which is why you have to export the image, so that the software can 'apply' your pp to it. If you want to work on variations of the same image you create virtual copies and export these, at no point do you have more than 1 original and that original is kept safe from any changes at all...

Its worth persevering and reading up on... i personally find it one of the best peices of software i have used.. but then again i dont do huge amounts of pp, just corrections generally.. and use it as a file catalogue!

Steve

This is the same case with Camera Raw 6, you really never touch the original you make changes to a virtual copy of it (if that is the right terminology)
I have yet to destroy, change, or even lose an image from using software like lightroom or Camera Raw.

03-31-2011, 12:41 PM	#1
DaveHolmes Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 1,501	Software... I do struggle with PP... FACT... Try to do as little as possible... Currently using Lightroom... Love the editing and manipulation... Hate the workflow... Have lost images I liked due to its/my stupidity... Photoshop... Love the lack of workflow... Hate the interface... GIMP... ARRGGHH... How d'you make it work?!?!?! A friend suggested 'Paintshop Photo Pro X3' (made by Corel). Anyone know if it's any good? Is its workflow set-up more user intuative than Lightroom? Can the workflow part of the programme be bypassed? (not possible in LR) Ideally I want something where I can open a file straight from windows, fix it up fairly quickly and press 'ctrl+S' and it be where I left it... Looking good...

04-01-2011, 05:20 PM	#11
Barry_S Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: ohio Posts: 64	Camera Raw 6 I'm with you bird. I do 90% in Camera Raw, then move to cs5 for the final touchups. You can do a lot of stuff in Camera Raw 6.

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03-31-2011, 12:52 PM	#2
Adam Administrator Site Webmaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 51,608	I'd take another stab at photoshop. Open file Control+shift+L Control+shift+I Control+S Control+W Levels fixed, photo resized, saved, closed. You don't even really need your mouse!

03-31-2011, 12:59 PM	#3
loco Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Virginia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,846	Since you already have Lightroom, you might check out Scott Kelby's Lightroom book. It is really very helpful, and I learned a lot about the organizing features of the software. It's actually extremely powerful if you take the time to learn it. I went through similar problems when I first started using it, but after reading the book, I have really come to appreciate how great the program is at organizing and processing photos.

03-31-2011, 03:21 PM	#4
theunartist Inactive Account Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Baltimore Posts: 2,542	Originally posted by DaveHolmes I do struggle with PP... FACT... Try to do as little as possible... Currently using Lightroom... Love the editing and manipulation... Hate the workflow... Have lost images I liked due to its/my stupidity... Photoshop... Love the lack of workflow... Hate the interface... GIMP... ARRGGHH... How d'you make it work?!?!?! A friend suggested 'Paintshop Photo Pro X3' (made by Corel). Anyone know if it's any good? Is its workflow set-up more user intuative than Lightroom? Can the workflow part of the programme be bypassed? (not possible in LR) I use all that you have mentioned in your post, except LR. They all have their strong points and bad points... The worst part for me, I don't have them all on one machine, so sometimes it's a PC and sometimes it's a Mac. My favorite would be Photoshop for prepping files I plan to be printed, Corel is nice all around with, IMHO, the best built in Noise Reduction plugin but does not convert Raw to Jpeg very well, and Gimp is a huge learning curve but the potential is absolutely there if you have the patience! At this point unless I plan to do more than post it on the internet somewhere, something like Faststone or Picasa does it for me. I don't even work on Raw files unless I plan to print or more, so everything is from a good jpeg file. It all depends on your expectations and quality of original file, whether Raw or Jpeg. Picasa http://picasa.google.com/ and Faststone FastStone Image Viewer, Screen Capture, Photo Resizer ... will open just about any Raw file out there. On Picasa, you work on an image and it automatically saves it with the option to undo to original file, on Faststone you will need to save and no turning back. BUT Faststone can do just a little bit more than Picasa. Neither have any Noise Reduction option which is a bummer! Quote: Ideally I want something where I can open a file straight from windows, fix it up fairly quickly and press 'ctrl+S' and it be where I left it... Looking good... Short answer would be Picasa, if you're working on a good image to start with , works on a PC as well as an Intel Mac... Good luck, Have fun - Rick Last edited by theunartist; 03-31-2011 at 04:22 PM.

03-31-2011, 05:15 PM	#5
Coeurdechene Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: madrid Photos: Albums Posts: 833	If you struggle with PP and try to do as litle as possible the Gimp is a no no..it has an awfull learning curve..can't talk about LR...Photoshop is fine. BUT if you shoot RAW i think something like Rawtherapee suits you well..intuitive, easy to use, and very proficient for the normal PP you usually do if you're not into extensive retouching. Problem: it's testing software and as such it's kind of unstable. other good things: Open source and good comunity.

03-31-2011, 06:36 PM	#6
snostorm Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Chicago suburb, IL, USA Posts: 1,535	Hi Dave, I use PSPPX2, and prefer the browsing/editing transitions to X3 by a longshot. I've tried many versions of Photoshop and always find the interface totally non intuitive -- but I've used PSP since it was shareware, so I'd expect the interface to work better for me. Friends that I've shown both programs to seem to find PS considerably more challenging to learn, but this might be a "birds of a feather" thing. . . I have both PSP X and X2 loaded on my Windows 7 Ultra 64, and use X for quick and rough editing and X2 for more extensive or critical stuff. X indexes the thumbnails in a separate file within each folder of pics, and X2 uses a single file, which I don't like as the file gets really large and can get corrupted with a large quantity of image files, or at least that's my guess. I have over 100K image files that I play with, and it can be cumbersome for the program. I only keep relatively current folders in play with X2, and use X for the rest. X2 seems to have a better downsizing algorithm, so I prefer this for processing images to post on the web. I use Topaz Denoise and Infocus, plus Focus Magic as my main plugins. Most PS plugins are PSP compatible, but not all by any means, and this is a very significant consideration, IMO. I think you can still get X2 for @ $25, and probably X3 for less than $100 and they are very capable editors for jpegs, but they aren't generally highly regarded or considered as RAW converters if you need this as an integrated function. I shoot jpegs, so this is obviously not a high priority consideration for me. You can download a demo of PSPP X3 to check out for a month for free. You still might be able to download previous versions as demos or evn possibly freeware, but I really haven't looked. . . Just my 2¢ FWIW. . . Scott

04-01-2011, 06:07 AM	#7
DaveHolmes Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 1,501 Original Poster	Cheers all... As per... Lots of usefulness... Have downloaded Picasa... Editing is minimal but just enough for most of my needs at this point... Love that it just finds my pics from where its told to look automatically... Very intuative interface and easy to get along with... Shame it has not the editing power of LR3 but I guess for free you can't quibble... Ideal software for me would be a cross 'tween LR&Picasa at this point... Cheers again guys Dave

04-01-2011, 12:36 PM	#8
Colbyt Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Central Kentucky Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,418	I agree with Adam except I always add two extra steps which might solve your problems with any of these programs. Open file Duplicate image close original, work on the copy No matter how badly you screw up you can not lose the original image if you do it this way.

04-01-2011, 12:44 PM	#9
loco Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Virginia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,846	That's why I like Lightroom. You don't lose anything. Any changes you make are not permanent until you actually export the photo. But they also give the option to make a virtual copy so that you can try different settings on the same image and compare, again without ever damaging or changing any original.

04-01-2011, 04:50 PM	#10
BirdDude007 Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Las Vegas NV Photos: Albums Posts: 784	I must be pretty rare around here, I use mainly Camera Raw 6 and then work on my images in PS CS5, any work I do with my images is nondestructive and it makes it so that I can keep just the one image if I want no matter what I do to it. When I work on the image it is then saved as editing information attached to the original raw file, I can work on an image, rework on it and just literally change it as many times as I like and even if it is five years down the road I can always revert the file right back to the "fresh off the 'ol sensor" image. Once I learned Camera Raw I actually don't bogg my computer down anymore with many different copies of single images that I have worked on. It keeps me more organized.

04-01-2011, 08:07 PM	#12
tibbitts Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Oklahoma USA Posts: 2,196	Quote: Have lost images I liked due to its/my stupidity... With the low cost of storage, you should duplicate your images before you get involved with PP. You might still lose some of your PP images - I've done that too. But as long as you have the original, you can recreate whatever you lose. Paul

04-02-2011, 04:22 PM	#13
subeeds Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Camden County, Ga. Photos: Gallery Posts: 333	A few weeks ago, I came across a new image editor called SageLight. I downloaded the free 30 day trial, then ended up buying it for $39.95 on sale. I love it! It's easy to use,there are all kinds of tutorials on YouTube for it and the learning curve almost does not exits. It's still on sale while the guy works on adding some things to it. Here's a link to the SageLight blog if you want to take a look at it. Sagelight Image Editor Blog & Newsletter \| Things going on with Sagelight 48-bit Image Editor

04-02-2011, 06:42 PM	#14
5teve Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Perth - Australia Photos: Albums Posts: 226	Originally posted by DaveHolmes Currently using Lightroom... Love the editing and manipulation... Hate the workflow... Have lost images I liked due to its/my stupidity... How did you manage this? I find its actually quite difficult to lose images in Lightroom as deletion is not prefered option! The thing is with Lightroom, is once you understand the concept, the rest becomes quite easy. Essentially you work on an image via a database of changes, you never touch the original, which is why you have to export the image, so that the software can 'apply' your pp to it. If you want to work on variations of the same image you create virtual copies and export these, at no point do you have more than 1 original and that original is kept safe from any changes at all... Its worth persevering and reading up on... i personally find it one of the best peices of software i have used.. but then again i dont do huge amounts of pp, just corrections generally.. and use it as a file catalogue! Steve

04-04-2011, 05:45 PM	#15
BirdDude007 Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Las Vegas NV Photos: Albums Posts: 784	Originally posted by 5teve How did you manage this? I find its actually quite difficult to lose images in Lightroom as deletion is not prefered option! The thing is with Lightroom, is once you understand the concept, the rest becomes quite easy. Essentially you work on an image via a database of changes, you never touch the original, which is why you have to export the image, so that the software can 'apply' your pp to it. If you want to work on variations of the same image you create virtual copies and export these, at no point do you have more than 1 original and that original is kept safe from any changes at all... Its worth persevering and reading up on... i personally find it one of the best peices of software i have used.. but then again i dont do huge amounts of pp, just corrections generally.. and use it as a file catalogue! Steve This is the same case with Camera Raw 6, you really never touch the original you make changes to a virtual copy of it (if that is the right terminology) I have yet to destroy, change, or even lose an image from using software like lightroom or Camera Raw.