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04-06-2011, 07:38 AM   #16
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I'd go K&, I had the 20 and i can tell you the 7 is a far more comfortable camera to shoot than the 20 will be. the low light performance on the 7 is better than the general consensus, not up to Kr but good enough for most cases with a noise plug in like topaz 1600 is easy 3200 is quite usable (though DR is tight)
then any accessories like a grip will be applicable to a k5 if you move up down the road. IMHO the K7 is also better built than the K10/20 though that is like just due to the feel. with a 20 you will also be buying a camera with more use on it than a good k7 so it should be cheaper because more of it's usable life has past.
If you look at my Single in albums you'll see examples from the 7 with several lenses (m28 3.5, 18-55wr, m50 1.7, and da14 this month) that should give you some real world performance examples at various isos and lighting situations

04-06-2011, 12:40 PM   #17
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eddie1960, Thanks for the mention of the albums in the forum. Your photos provided insight as to what the K-7 is capable of in the hands of someone in the real world. I think I may take a journey into other albums as well. Possibly a further journey into flicker and similar sites to get more examples. Why didn't I think of that?

On the technical side of this decision I have noted the following:
A) K-5: better performer with all kinds of bells and whistles
B) K-r: no HyP/HyM/X, the prescence of scene modes on dial that restricts or does not allow for adjustment, one lens adjustment, no power zoom, 16 segment metering, and no progamable user
setting.
C) K-7: Suggested poorer ISO performance, no separate ISO NR
D) 20D: slower shutter speed, slower fps, no shadow DR, 16 segment metering, no HDR, no separate ISO NR

On the personal side is the fit to hand of the K5/7, the availability of grip for three of the four, the cost of body and two starter lenses for under $1200 with K -7/r/20, available warranties for all, weather sealed/durable bodies on three, and all have features that I see myself using. The question seems to be more as to what features can I do without, what do I really need technically for my shooting style.

Last edited by BugsAunt; 04-06-2011 at 01:10 PM.
04-06-2011, 12:50 PM   #18
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I wanted a k5 (wasn't willing to get a kr or kx coming from a k10) but it was too much, a good used price came up on the k7 18-55wr and then i saw the k7 high iso thread so i went for it. haven't regretted it for a second (and at the time there were $500 refurb k20s kicking around so i could have had a low use one with warranty like i did with the k10) I figured for not much more i'd get a lot of improvements. I think a lot of the griping at release was generated by a change in form factor so people were looking for something to complain about, bundled with the high iso performance not being better than everything else out there at the time. Right now in most ways it's the best camera i've owned, and rivals some of the best i've used (like the FF nikons) in many ways with a nicer form factor IMHO (k5 has this as well of course)

all i use for noise is LR 3.3, I haven't bought topaz yet (though I may at some point)
04-06-2011, 01:30 PM   #19
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Whoops, I think a little fearful voice in my mind is worried about the not so techno savvy part. All are good cameras and have their merits. I need to find the fit that is best for me and learn to use it well. Everyones comments have been appreciated, but still more would be most welcome and appreciated.

04-06-2011, 02:09 PM   #20
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It's kind of hard to look at a feature and say "I'll never use that". Here's my experience:

I never used scene modes because I was used to thinking about the scene and making my own decisions, like faster shutter speeds for sports. If you start with some ideas of your own about settings, scene modes can be more confusing because the camera may fight you with its own ideas. I use Av, M and sometimes Tv or P mode, and that's plenty.

Two control dials is great with newer lenses, anything with an A position on the aperture ring. That allows you to control shutter speed on one dial and aperture on another dial. The dial assignments are programmable for other things too. I got by with one dial and had to unlearn some stuff, but I like 2 dials.

I started with a higher-noise camera so I still avoid raising ISO without a good reason. The better your lenses are, the less need you'll have for high ISO. The latest software is pretty good. It's really hard to say that you will never find a reason for ISO 3200 or more, because it's a handy option. Still, I get by without it.
04-06-2011, 02:36 PM   #21
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I was shooting some stuff at night yesterday and had my K-5 set on TAv, letting the camera set the sensitivity. I needed 1/100th to stop movement and was therefore shooting at f/1.2. Even so The camera had to resort to ISO 12000-25000 for some shots! I would call all of the ISO 25000 shots usable though. I'd even feel confident blowing up the ISO 5000 shots to poster size.

I remember night shooting with my K-7 and it being... a lot worse. But that's just like every other DSLR I've ever used before. If you're using the K-7 at ISO 100-400 you shouldn't notice $500 in difference between the K-5 nd K-7 noise-wise (don't know about DR).

I think the bottom line is the K-7 is a good camera. It's just that the sensor in the K-5 is so much better than the one in the K-7 that the K-7 gets a bad rep.


Actually, come to think of it. If you REALLY want to test the waters; you could get a used K-10. I've seen some go for $200 on ebay recently. It would make a decent backup camera and you wouldn't even feel the price compared to the lenses!
04-16-2011, 08:43 AM   #22
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Decision taken out of hands. Family members purchased K7 with kit lens and 35 for graduation gift. I think i will look into a few good lenses to purchase after playing around with the 35 and kit lens. Will set aside personal budget left over to purchase K5 when cost comes down. I like having a two camera kit and the compatibility of the 7&5 accessories seems the way to go later on. Now just need to start that steep learning curve. Thanks for all the advice and comments from all and be sure there are more questions to come. VERY GLAD I found this forum.
04-16-2011, 10:58 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by BugsAunt Quote
Decision taken out of hands. Family members purchased K7 with kit lens and 35 for graduation gift. I think i will look into a few good lenses to purchase after playing around with the 35 and kit lens. Will set aside personal budget left over to purchase K5 when cost comes down. I like having a two camera kit and the compatibility of the 7&5 accessories seems the way to go later on. Now just need to start that steep learning curve. Thanks for all the advice and comments from all and be sure there are more questions to come. VERY GLAD I found this forum.
Congrats on the new K7! I have both of those lenses and they are my most used. I'm sure you'll be happy with the setup for starters. At the beginning of this month I really tested my K7 at high ISO for the first time and was very pleased with the results. ISO 800, 1100, and 1600 were very usable. ISO 2200 was okay, and 3200 was a stretch. I don't have NR software but if I did things would be even better. For regular use, the K7 is awesome.

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