storing photos for the future

Ben_Edict · 05-15-2011, 12:15 PM

I have a very simple storage strategy: security and safety.

all files reside on a RAID6 NAS (8 HDDs)
I use two independent sets of backup HDDs, which mirror the RAID6
the backup HDDs rotate between my office and an external place
the RAWs are also backed up on three independent sets of DVDs - but DVDs are too small and I am currently looking onto BlueRays.

HDDs do fail. I have lost three over the last five years or so. Gone are the days, with the near infalable SCSI-drives, though RAID-certified HDDs have a lower failure count.

The Drobo looks nice, but is too slow and too vulnerable during recovery/rebuild. The RAID system I use shifts 108 MByte/s over Gigabit Ethernet and thus makes full use of the available bandwith, even if I had just replaced a faulty drive and it is rebuilding.

I would not entrust my property to the "cloud". There might be technical safety, but the protection of my work is very dear to me and I want to have full control over the files at all times. Also, costwise, it would probably not be a viable option, as my image files are app. 2 TB.

Ben

dh4412 · 05-15-2011, 02:04 PM

thanks for all these ideas.

dh4412 · 05-15-2011, 02:09 PM

how did old negatives used to be stored? and how long would they last? could digital media be put on film? would that make any sense or none whatsoever? are fifty year old negatives still good to be printed from? i don't know.

wombat2go · 05-15-2011, 03:39 PM

how did old negatives used to be stored? and how long would they last?

I visited an engineering company in Newport Wales UK in about 2002.
They had photographic records of the machines built and the oldest
were on glass slides from before 1900. They were racked in wooden boxes
with felt and in top condition.

dh4412 · 05-15-2011, 03:55 PM

i have been wondering lately if there will be a way to put digital photos on something like slides, or some other form of more physical storage, i would think this would be a ripe field for invention, to keep photos for posterity, rather than rely on the digital storage available today. again,
thanks for all the replies.

Wheatfield · 05-15-2011, 05:04 PM

Originally posted by Ubuntu_user

Doesn't Drobo use RAID??? Not RAID 1, but RAID 5 or something like that?

I think it's similar to raid 5. I don't think about it, I just plug it in when I need to put stuff on it, and unmount and unplug it after it quits making noise.
Up until a few weeks ago I had 3x 750gb drives in mine, but it was filling up so I changed them out for 3x 2tb Hitachi drives. The changeover went exactly as they said it would. I popped a new drive into the 4th bay and waited until it said it had done it's magic, then I pulled one of the 750GB drives out and put another 2tb drive in, and repeated the process for the third drive.
It chugged away at whatever it does for several hours each time, but when it was done everything was still there.

Originally posted by dh4412

i have been wondering lately if there will be a way to put digital photos on something like slides, or some other form of more physical storage, i would think this would be a ripe field for invention, to keep photos for posterity, rather than rely on the digital storage available today. again,
thanks for all the replies.

Make photographic prints. Real ones from a wet lab. They have proven themselves over time to be a very stable storage medium.

sgtkashim · 05-15-2011, 06:02 PM

Originally posted by Wheatfield

I think it's similar to raid 5. I don't think about it, I just plug it in when I need to put stuff on it, and unmount and unplug it after it quits making noise.
Up until a few weeks ago I had 3x 750gb drives in mine, but it was filling up so I changed them out for 3x 2tb Hitachi drives. The changeover went exactly as they said it would. I popped a new drive into the 4th bay and waited until it said it had done it's magic, then I pulled one of the 750GB drives out and put another 2tb drive in, and repeated the process for the third drive.
It chugged away at whatever it does for several hours each time, but when it was done everything was still there.

Make photographic prints. Real ones from a wet lab. They have proven themselves over time to be a very stable storage medium.

You could probably use photo paper and an infocus projector to mock something like that up...

DaveHolmes · 05-16-2011, 05:34 AM

Originally posted by dh4412

i would think this would be a ripe field for invention, to keep photos for posterity

Unfortuately... you have been beaten to it by 100+ years...

As wheatfield says, prints:

Originally posted by Wheatfield

have proven themselves over time to be a very stable storage medium

Ben_Edict · 05-16-2011, 12:11 PM

Originally posted by dh4412

i have been wondering lately if there will be a way to put digital photos on something like slides, or some other form of more physical storage, i would think this would be a ripe field for invention, to keep photos for posterity, rather than rely on the digital storage available today. again,
thanks for all the replies.

You can easily buy film recorders for exactly this purpose. It needn't be a big Arri: ARRI Group: Specifications

a smaller and cheaper CCG will do just fine: CCG Film Recorders

You might also find some old Polaroid or Agfa units, if you do a web search. These film rdo, what you suggested: transfer digital images onto the film of your choice.

Ben

krp · 05-29-2011, 06:16 PM

Right now I have most of my pictures on DVD's, but I know that's not very smart. I want to buy a 1 tb external hard drive and have all my photo's duplicated on that and DVD's. Does anyone know if there are tests somewhere that tell which brand is the most reliable? It seems like there are mixed reviews on every external hard drive I see.

twitch · 05-29-2011, 06:21 PM

Originally posted by krp

Right now I have most of my pictures on DVD's, but I know that's not very smart. I want to buy a 1 tb external hard drive and have all my photo's duplicated on that and DVD's. Does anyone know if there are tests somewhere that tell which brand is the most reliable? It seems like there are mixed reviews on every external hard drive I see.

Never ever put faith in 1 HDD, regardless of brand, HDD's from every manufacturer fail. Adequate backups are about having your photos in multiple places on multiple drives.

So my advice is to buy 2 HDDs, ideally from different manufacturers, and store your photos on both.

crf529 · 05-29-2011, 09:10 PM

Many believe that Samsung produce the most reliable HDDs (me included), but most people will have their own opinion about who is king to varying degrees. I haven't heard too many horror stories about Samsung drives with 3yrs warranty, and I try and stick to them.

However at the end of the day twitch is spot on, multiple HDDs is the most reliable option to minimise the risk.

Ben_Edict · 05-30-2011, 12:36 PM

Originally posted by crf529

Many believe that Samsung produce the most reliable HDDs (me included), but most people will have their own opinion about who is king to varying degrees. I haven't heard too many horror stories about Samsung drives with 3yrs warranty, and I try and stick to them.

However at the end of the day twitch is spot on, multiple HDDs is the most reliable option to minimise the risk.

Out of five, two Samsungs died within 6 months of use. That is, why I don't buy Samsungs anymore. I used to buy IBM exclusively in the past, but that is no more. Today I buy Seagate or WD, which have been quite reliable for me (different from the past, when WD was a "no go").

Nowadays the best way is, not to buy the latest highest capacity modell, but stick to one generation below that upper limit. Also buying RAID-certified drives will improve the reliability (on average - but ofcourse the best HD can fail within a day after installing, if one is unlucky). These and the even better server certified 24/7 HDs are indeed produced to higher specs, not only selected from the normal production run. That's what I use in my RAID.

And follow twitch's advice: never rely on one single HD.

Ben

krp · 05-30-2011, 03:31 PM

I just bought this: Western Digital 1.5TB Elements Desktop Hard WDBAAU0015HBK-NESN
I'll try to buy another hard drive soon.

twitch · 05-30-2011, 04:08 PM

My 1.5TB WD Hard Disk died suddenly on me just a couple of weeks ago. My Seagates are going strong, yet 2 years ago there were widespread problems with Seagates and everyone was rushing to WD's. My first Samsung died within 2 months, my 2nd was still going strong after 3 yrs when I sold it.

Moral of the story is don't put any faith whatsoever in a HDD, they are all evil to the core

05-15-2011, 12:15 PM	#31
Ben_Edict Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: SouthWest "Regio" Photos: Albums Posts: 3,309	I have a very simple storage strategy: security and safety. all files reside on a RAID6 NAS (8 HDDs) I use two independent sets of backup HDDs, which mirror the RAID6 the backup HDDs rotate between my office and an external place the RAWs are also backed up on three independent sets of DVDs - but DVDs are too small and I am currently looking onto BlueRays. HDDs do fail. I have lost three over the last five years or so. Gone are the days, with the near infalable SCSI-drives, though RAID-certified HDDs have a lower failure count. The Drobo looks nice, but is too slow and too vulnerable during recovery/rebuild. The RAID system I use shifts 108 MByte/s over Gigabit Ethernet and thus makes full use of the available bandwith, even if I had just replaced a faulty drive and it is rebuilding. I would not entrust my property to the "cloud". There might be technical safety, but the protection of my work is very dear to me and I want to have full control over the files at all times. Also, costwise, it would probably not be a viable option, as my image files are app. 2 TB. Ben

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05-15-2011, 02:04 PM	#32
dh4412 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: connecticut Photos: Gallery Posts: 248 Original Poster	thanks for all these ideas.

05-15-2011, 02:09 PM	#33
dh4412 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: connecticut Photos: Gallery Posts: 248 Original Poster	how did old negatives used to be stored? and how long would they last? could digital media be put on film? would that make any sense or none whatsoever? are fifty year old negatives still good to be printed from? i don't know.

05-15-2011, 03:39 PM	#34
wombat2go Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Michigan Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,207	how did old negatives used to be stored? and how long would they last? I visited an engineering company in Newport Wales UK in about 2002. They had photographic records of the machines built and the oldest were on glass slides from before 1900. They were racked in wooden boxes with felt and in top condition.

05-15-2011, 03:55 PM	#35
dh4412 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: connecticut Photos: Gallery Posts: 248 Original Poster	i have been wondering lately if there will be a way to put digital photos on something like slides, or some other form of more physical storage, i would think this would be a ripe field for invention, to keep photos for posterity, rather than rely on the digital storage available today. again, thanks for all the replies.

05-15-2011, 05:04 PM	#36
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,981	Originally posted by Ubuntu_user Doesn't Drobo use RAID??? Not RAID 1, but RAID 5 or something like that? I think it's similar to raid 5. I don't think about it, I just plug it in when I need to put stuff on it, and unmount and unplug it after it quits making noise. Up until a few weeks ago I had 3x 750gb drives in mine, but it was filling up so I changed them out for 3x 2tb Hitachi drives. The changeover went exactly as they said it would. I popped a new drive into the 4th bay and waited until it said it had done it's magic, then I pulled one of the 750GB drives out and put another 2tb drive in, and repeated the process for the third drive. It chugged away at whatever it does for several hours each time, but when it was done everything was still there. Originally posted by dh4412 i have been wondering lately if there will be a way to put digital photos on something like slides, or some other form of more physical storage, i would think this would be a ripe field for invention, to keep photos for posterity, rather than rely on the digital storage available today. again, thanks for all the replies. Make photographic prints. Real ones from a wet lab. They have proven themselves over time to be a very stable storage medium.

05-15-2011, 06:02 PM	#37
sgtkashim Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 90	Originally posted by Wheatfield I think it's similar to raid 5. I don't think about it, I just plug it in when I need to put stuff on it, and unmount and unplug it after it quits making noise. Up until a few weeks ago I had 3x 750gb drives in mine, but it was filling up so I changed them out for 3x 2tb Hitachi drives. The changeover went exactly as they said it would. I popped a new drive into the 4th bay and waited until it said it had done it's magic, then I pulled one of the 750GB drives out and put another 2tb drive in, and repeated the process for the third drive. It chugged away at whatever it does for several hours each time, but when it was done everything was still there. Make photographic prints. Real ones from a wet lab. They have proven themselves over time to be a very stable storage medium. You could probably use photo paper and an infocus projector to mock something like that up...

05-16-2011, 05:34 AM	#38
DaveHolmes Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 1,501	Originally posted by dh4412 i would think this would be a ripe field for invention, to keep photos for posterity Unfortuately... you have been beaten to it by 100+ years... As wheatfield says, prints: Originally posted by Wheatfield have proven themselves over time to be a very stable storage medium

05-16-2011, 12:11 PM	#39
Ben_Edict Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: SouthWest "Regio" Photos: Albums Posts: 3,309	Originally posted by dh4412 i have been wondering lately if there will be a way to put digital photos on something like slides, or some other form of more physical storage, i would think this would be a ripe field for invention, to keep photos for posterity, rather than rely on the digital storage available today. again, thanks for all the replies. You can easily buy film recorders for exactly this purpose. It needn't be a big Arri: ARRI Group: Specifications a smaller and cheaper CCG will do just fine: CCG Film Recorders You might also find some old Polaroid or Agfa units, if you do a web search. These film rdo, what you suggested: transfer digital images onto the film of your choice. Ben

05-29-2011, 06:16 PM	#40
krp Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Illinois Photos: Gallery Posts: 470	Right now I have most of my pictures on DVD's, but I know that's not very smart. I want to buy a 1 tb external hard drive and have all my photo's duplicated on that and DVD's. Does anyone know if there are tests somewhere that tell which brand is the most reliable? It seems like there are mixed reviews on every external hard drive I see.

05-29-2011, 06:21 PM	#41
twitch Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 4,571	Originally posted by krp Right now I have most of my pictures on DVD's, but I know that's not very smart. I want to buy a 1 tb external hard drive and have all my photo's duplicated on that and DVD's. Does anyone know if there are tests somewhere that tell which brand is the most reliable? It seems like there are mixed reviews on every external hard drive I see. Never ever put faith in 1 HDD, regardless of brand, HDD's from every manufacturer fail. Adequate backups are about having your photos in multiple places on multiple drives. So my advice is to buy 2 HDDs, ideally from different manufacturers, and store your photos on both.

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05-29-2011, 09:10 PM	#42
crf529 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Australia Posts: 124	Many believe that Samsung produce the most reliable HDDs (me included), but most people will have their own opinion about who is king to varying degrees. I haven't heard too many horror stories about Samsung drives with 3yrs warranty, and I try and stick to them. However at the end of the day twitch is spot on, multiple HDDs is the most reliable option to minimise the risk.

05-30-2011, 12:36 PM	#43
Ben_Edict Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: SouthWest "Regio" Photos: Albums Posts: 3,309	Originally posted by crf529 Many believe that Samsung produce the most reliable HDDs (me included), but most people will have their own opinion about who is king to varying degrees. I haven't heard too many horror stories about Samsung drives with 3yrs warranty, and I try and stick to them. However at the end of the day twitch is spot on, multiple HDDs is the most reliable option to minimise the risk. Out of five, two Samsungs died within 6 months of use. That is, why I don't buy Samsungs anymore. I used to buy IBM exclusively in the past, but that is no more. Today I buy Seagate or WD, which have been quite reliable for me (different from the past, when WD was a "no go"). Nowadays the best way is, not to buy the latest highest capacity modell, but stick to one generation below that upper limit. Also buying RAID-certified drives will improve the reliability (on average - but ofcourse the best HD can fail within a day after installing, if one is unlucky). These and the even better server certified 24/7 HDs are indeed produced to higher specs, not only selected from the normal production run. That's what I use in my RAID. And follow twitch's advice: never rely on one single HD. Ben

05-30-2011, 03:31 PM	#44
krp Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Illinois Photos: Gallery Posts: 470	I just bought this: Western Digital 1.5TB Elements Desktop Hard WDBAAU0015HBK-NESN I'll try to buy another hard drive soon.

05-30-2011, 04:08 PM	#45
twitch Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 4,571	My 1.5TB WD Hard Disk died suddenly on me just a couple of weeks ago. My Seagates are going strong, yet 2 years ago there were widespread problems with Seagates and everyone was rushing to WD's. My first Samsung died within 2 months, my 2nd was still going strong after 3 yrs when I sold it. Moral of the story is don't put any faith whatsoever in a HDD, they are all evil to the core