Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
08-07-2011, 02:39 AM   #61
Pentaxian
starbase218's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Planet Earth, Sol system, Milky Way galaxy, Universe
Posts: 1,110
QuoteOriginally posted by RioRico Quote
My upbringing (I just about grew up in my dad's small darkroom), my training (in various graphic arts), and my work experience (back when photography was my job) all pointed to: DO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO GET THE PICTURE! My composition studies showed me that any one frame may contain a picture, or only a portion of a picture, or many pictures. A single image might indeed be a carefully planned composition, or a lucky snapshot. Or I might stitch together a matrix of frames to build an otherwise-impossible image. Or I might find numerous stories to tell with that one frame, many ways to recompose, to isolate elements. That's one of the thrills of PP, the malleability of source images.
I think I know what you mean, but for me that just isn't as much fun. Also, I just don't have the time to do it that way.

QuoteOriginally posted by RioRico Quote
Others just explained CIF (Catch-In-Focus aka trap-focus) and it's raised in posts earlier in this thread.
Ah, catch-in-focus. I used that a few times too.

Btw, I think my shooting priorities are different from yours. When photographing people, I have learned that I don't want people to object to having their photo taken. I like to travel, and have come across people who apparently were not so considerate about other people's feelings. Then I ask myself: how is it possible that you see every little detail inside the frame, but not see the overall picture ? That I don't understand.

QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
It depends on what you shoot. In some shots, focusing is so critical, you have to concentrate on it regardless of whether you're using AF or MF. Otherwise you're gambling with the ability of the AF system to lock focus on the detail you want in focus.
True, but then AF still helps me to get that out of the way quickly, so that I can move on to composing.

08-07-2011, 05:52 AM   #62
Veteran Member
sany's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Dubai, UAE
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 428
QuoteOriginally posted by RioRico Quote
My upbringing (I just about grew up in my dad's small darkroom), my training (in various graphic arts), and my work experience (back when photography was my job) all pointed to: DO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO GET THE PICTURE! My composition studies showed me that any one frame may contain a picture, or only a portion of a picture, or many pictures. A single image might indeed be a carefully planned composition, or a lucky snapshot. Or I might stitch together a matrix of frames to build an otherwise-impossible image. Or I might find numerous stories to tell with that one frame, many ways to recompose, to isolate elements. That's one of the thrills of PP, the malleability of source images.


In Manual mode (or Bulb or XSync) YOU control the image. In Auto modes and/or shooting JPG-only, you cede that control to the design engineers. Whether or not that matters, depends. Do whatever it takes to get the picture, eh?


Others just explained CIF (Catch-In-Focus aka trap-focus) and it's raised in posts earlier in this thread. With my delaminating eyeballs, I depend on CIF with MFLs (manual-focus lenses). It can be used variously: Hold down the shutter button, and wait till a subject moves into focus, or until you adjust focus or move so the subject comes into focus. I use this for some street shooting: Hold the camera casually with the shutter down, and when someone reaches the hot point, SNAP! Or tripod the camera, set drive mode to Continuous, prefocus on a hot point, jam the shutter down (I use a wired remote with my K20D); and as subjects arrive, SNAP SNAP SNAP... This is a good way to shoot birds and bears and bicyclists and burglars.

Yes, careful portrait and landscape and commercial and macro work (among others) demands careful manual focus. And much street shooting benefits from hyperfocus and thick DOF. I set my Tokina 21/3.8 to f/11, prefocus to 2m for DOF from 1m to infinity, and have at it. I may compose in-camera, or in PP, it doesn't matter, AS LONG AS I GET THE PICTURE! Somewhere around here I mentioned my shooting priorities:

1) GET THE DAMN PICTURE!
2) Don't get seriously hurt.
3) Make a clean getaway.
4) Try to expose properly.
5) Try to compose nicely.

Enough for now. I'm sure this continuing symposium will return to these points. Cheers!
Thank you Professor! Everytime you explain I am learning something new! RioRicco is one of the causes that has given me some boldness towards using manual lenses as having people like him around there is a lot of scope to fix where we shortfall in some legendary techniques.

Keep up your good works, professor RioRicco!
08-07-2011, 06:00 AM   #63
Veteran Member




Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Canberra
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 739
QuoteOriginally posted by sany Quote
Keep up your good works, professor RioRicco!
Careful - You'll cause him to start stretching his spectacle frames
08-07-2011, 06:08 AM   #64
Veteran Member
sany's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Dubai, UAE
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 428
QuoteOriginally posted by adr1an Quote
Careful - You'll cause him to start stretching his spectacle frames


08-07-2011, 10:34 AM   #65
Veteran Member
Laurentiu Cristofor's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: WA
Photos: Albums
Posts: 3,044
QuoteOriginally posted by starbase218 Quote
True, but then AF still helps me to get that out of the way quickly, so that I can move on to composing.
I am not sure what you are having in mind, but for the scenarios I was talking about, focus is the main priority - you can never get that out of the way completely. Once DOF becomes thin or the object you want to focus on is too small to be detected by the AF system, you have to focus on focusing - you cannot ignore it and hope that the AF will take care of it.

I guess some examples may be helpful. You could use AF in some of these shots, but it won't get the focusing "out of the way" - you'll have to make sure that the focus remains where you want it. The first two are uncropped, the last two are cropped - not because I didn't pay attention to the composition, but because I couldn't get close enough to the subject to fill the frame. Also, all are manually focused.

Sigma 105:


Sigma 105:


DA 50-200:


DA 55-300:
08-08-2011, 01:12 AM   #66
Pentaxian
starbase218's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Planet Earth, Sol system, Milky Way galaxy, Universe
Posts: 1,110
QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
I am not sure what you are having in mind, but for the scenarios I was talking about, focus is the main priority - you can never get that out of the way completely. Once DOF becomes thin or the object you want to focus on is too small to be detected by the AF system, you have to focus on focusing - you cannot ignore it and hope that the AF will take care of it.
So how did you confirm focus on these photos then?

Btw I didn't say I ignore it. For example, some time ago, I was out shooting with a few colleagues, and at one time took a shot of one of them with my DFA 100mm. Focus wasn't as critical as in your photos, but with f/2.8 at 100mm, still important. I could see the AF didn't lock properly at the first attempt, so I tried a second time, and it was bang on. When I focus manually, I tend to overthink it, not being sure when focus is at its best, even with a Nikon K3 focusing screen. Sure AF fails from time to time, and I know that. But I'm not convinced MF gives me better results in the end, except for when AF clearly falls short. YMMV.

Last edited by starbase218; 08-08-2011 at 01:38 AM.
08-08-2011, 07:22 AM   #67
Loyal Site Supporter
TER-OR's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Dundee, IL
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 5,554
Yeah, manual focus is invaluable for macro shots. Even without my glasses - and questionable eyeball focus confirmation - manual is the way to go. Snap a few shots while rolling the focus is the best method I've discovered. You'll get a few shots to delete but usually a keeper in there somewhere.

Every once in a while a great shot:

Virescent green metallic bee on coneflower:
shot with FA-100 Macro


Some little paper wasp:
08-08-2011, 08:23 AM   #68
Veteran Member
sany's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Dubai, UAE
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 428
QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
I just bought a Pentax O-ME53 magnifier. It's made a huge difference in MF ability on the K-x. I'm tempted to buy another one for my K20D.
Is this making such a big difference, I am seeing many posts where people say it is good when they used it with a split screen focus. I just wanted to know (since you like it so much), is this very effective even without the split screen?

Also, is this the same as the 'diopter' or something else?

08-08-2011, 09:36 AM   #69
Pentaxian
audiobomber's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Sudbury, Ontario
Photos: Albums
Posts: 6,642
QuoteOriginally posted by sany Quote
Is this making such a big difference, I am seeing many posts where people say it is good when they used it with a split screen focus. I just wanted to know (since you like it so much), is this very effective even without the split screen?
I've never used a split screen focusser. I would liken this magnifier to reading small print in dim light, then putting on reading glasses. Fine detail becomes clearer. The hit rate with my MF lenses at wide apertures has gone way up.

QuoteOriginally posted by sany Quote
Also, is this the same as the 'diopter' or something else?
I'm not sure I understand the question. To install the eye cup, you remove the existing and install this one:


If by 'diopter" you mean the slider that lets you adjust for your vision, it stays and operates the same way with or without the magnifier in place.

"The Pentax O-ME53 Viewfinder Loupe magnifying eyecup works with all Pentax DSLR bodies and offers 1.2 times magnification over the entire image field. This is ideal for critical focusing (e.g. macro photography), and when using manual focus lenses."


Pentax O-ME53 Magnifying Eyecup 30150 B&H Photo Video

Last edited by audiobomber; 08-08-2011 at 10:33 AM.
08-08-2011, 10:22 AM   #70
Veteran Member
sany's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Dubai, UAE
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 428
QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
I'm not sure I understand the question. To install the eye cup, you remove the existing and install this one:

If by 'diopter" you mean the slider that lets you adjust for your vision, it stays and operates the same way with or without the magnifier in place.
That's right, just wanted to know (the vision adjustment thingy-dopter with '+' and '-') whether this one is independent from the magnifier (two different things - magnifier and the vision adjusting diopter) or both the same and comes with the magnifier?

From your reply I guess, diopter remains in the body while we remove the existing eye cup and replace it with the magnifier.

I am contemplating to buy this and save on the split screen (as it is expensive) so trying to see if this really makes a difference.
08-08-2011, 11:35 AM   #71
Veteran Member
Laurentiu Cristofor's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: WA
Photos: Albums
Posts: 3,044
QuoteOriginally posted by starbase218 Quote
So how did you confirm focus on these photos then?
I watch where the lens is focusing - when it's focusing where I want, I press the shutter. I don't usually pay attention to the AF confirmation points.

QuoteOriginally posted by starbase218 Quote
But I'm not convinced MF gives me better results in the end, except for when AF clearly falls short. YMMV.
That is not my argument either. I am just saying that with AF, you cannot really forget about focusing. For example, for portraiture work, if you want to focus on eyes with thin DOF, you'll need to select an AF point and keep it on the eye of the subject - you cannot ignore where the focus point is, or you'll focus on the nose or on the cheek or on the forehead, so you must always pay attention to focusing even though you're relying on AF. I don't have samples of portraits because I don't post them, but my brother does have a bunch and you can find an example of a portrait shot with thin DOF here - it's shot with AF, but with a selected AF point. Whether you get better results with AF or MF depends on what you find more comfortable to work with.
08-08-2011, 11:38 AM   #72
Veteran Member
Laurentiu Cristofor's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: WA
Photos: Albums
Posts: 3,044
QuoteOriginally posted by sany Quote
Is this making such a big difference, I am seeing many posts where people say it is good when they used it with a split screen focus. I just wanted to know (since you like it so much), is this very effective even without the split screen?
Yes, it is very useful - you'll see the difference. I don't use a split screen but I use this.
08-08-2011, 11:41 AM   #73
Pentaxian
starbase218's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Planet Earth, Sol system, Milky Way galaxy, Universe
Posts: 1,110
QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
Whether you get better results with AF or MF depends on what you find more comfortable to work with.
I think that's what I tried to say.
08-08-2011, 12:28 PM   #74
Veteran Member
RioRico's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Limbo, California
Posts: 11,264
QuoteOriginally posted by sany Quote
I am contemplating to buy this and save on the split screen (as it is expensive) so trying to see if this really makes a difference.
Less expensive split-screens are available. But any split-screen on a crop-sensor camera requires that your subject be adequately lit, and with some contrast or pattern. There is more leeway with fast lenses on FF cameras because of the bigger brighter viewfinder image. I find the split-screen on my K20D useful with the right light, but I mostly rely on CIF and/or focus confirmation.

Last edited by RioRico; 08-08-2011 at 12:42 PM.
08-08-2011, 12:41 PM   #75
Veteran Member
sany's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Dubai, UAE
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 428
that's right, but i will stay away from the split screen for now (push it to the future incase i require) and stick to the magnifier. Let me learn the hard way and train my eye.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
af, camera, catch-in-focus, ease, focus, lens, lenses, love, mf, pentax help, photography
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
10 Reasons why manual focus primes are better than those new auto focus zoom lenses JoepLX3 Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 188 07-25-2012 03:28 PM
Focus Ring on DA 35 macro makes a clicking noise; manual focus ... this normal? eadrian75 Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 2 04-12-2011 12:51 AM
Confirm my understand of metering w/ manual lenses focus hyperfocal focus DeadJohn Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 4 03-25-2011 12:31 PM
K100D Super - Focus point locked to center in Manual Focus ? JGabr Pentax DSLR Discussion 2 01-25-2010 09:41 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:11 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top