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06-14-2011, 08:15 AM   #1
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Lenses for stereo/3D photography

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I was wondering what lenses are best for stereo photography, and what the impact on the photos is as the angle of view of a lens increases or decreases. Since I'll need 2 identical lenses, I don't want to make a mistake with this.

How does one determine the distance between camera bodies. I'll probably be using K20D bodies.

Any links or help for a newbie starting out with this would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

Roger

06-14-2011, 09:33 AM   #2
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Will these pictures work on 3D TVs? I have a Panasonic Plasma 3D TV and it does support 3D mode in the Image Viewer. I wonder if the attachment lenses will work though.
06-14-2011, 11:46 AM   #3
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I'm looking to take pictures with two identical bodies, lenses, and settings at the exact same time.

I would later need to assemble the pictures for stereo or 3D viewing.

I don't know any of the requirements needed to take good pictures for standard stereo/3D viewing yet, let alone 3D TVs.

If possible, I would like the images I take to be flexible enough to cover a broad range of viewing applications.
06-14-2011, 02:41 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by rgknief60 Quote
Forum Members,

I was wondering what lenses are best for stereo photography, and what the impact on the photos is as the angle of view of a lens increases or decreases. Since I'll need 2 identical lenses, I don't want to make a mistake with this.

How does one determine the distance between camera bodies. I'll probably be using K20D bodies.

Any links or help for a newbie starting out with this would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

Roger
Hello Roger,

The interocular distance (distance eyes apart) will be based on what your shooting. For up close stuff in the less than 50' or so, anything in the 1" to 3" is fine. For things way out (think sports filming distances) you need to over exaggerate the IO to get a 3d effect and IO in the range of 5" to 12" is not uncommon. You will have a minimum IO you can get since to make it easy you will build a parallel system (cameras side by side) and you will be limited by how close you can get two D20's together. If you build a beamsplitter system you can have an IO from 0" to whatever. See link below for beamsplitter systems.

You will have 2 other issues but they are not too bad so long as you do still photography and not video. Your alignment will be an issue, but that can be fixed in PP. Most notably will be a vertical offset since there are not any controls between sensor placement and manufacturer and one camera will have a different height from the sensor center to the base of the camera over another. Just align the photo in PP.

If you film or try and get a single shot of some fast action lets say a drummer. Even if the shutters fire at the same time they will never be exact and in one eye, the hand will be in a different position as the other eye and it will make PP hard to line up and worse yet that's what causes eye strain in 3D.. Ie Bad 3D. To get around this in the film world, the shutters are gen locked to each other to start and stop at the same time to keep the video in synch. If you plan to do video, you can use a laser pen or a flash as a cut and synch point.

Ok so here is the biggest issue. Lenses aren't matched to each other; even primes. so you could have a magnification issue between shots. Using a zoom can help by dialing it in, but it can also make things worse since it can be a pain in the butt, but if you take your time it may work out OK.

I would be interested to hear how your progress goes with this as it could be a fun project. Also I work for a 3D company and at the link below it will explain some of the theory as well as show what a beamsplitter rig is. I designed about 80% of the 3D products on the website and 100% of the Quasar rig.
www.technica3d.com

Also for fun 3D you can buy a gopro 3D setup to get video. The shutters are genlocked to each other so the files are synched. Here is a Youtube video of my first test. If you don't have anaglyph glasses you can turn off the 3D and watch it in 2D.





PS: youl need to watch these on Youtube's site to get the 3D option. If you click on it here it will display 2 side by side images... Just click the link above the video.

06-14-2011, 05:47 PM   #5
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Wow - this is cool - I will try it tonight.
06-14-2011, 08:14 PM   #6
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Thanks for the info and the vids, I sure appreciate the time you've taken to reply.

I can see that I have a lot to learn; you've given me a good starting point. I would not have guessed that primes could be different enough in magnification to cause problems.

I looked at the website. That's some amazing engineering. The 3D glossary of terms will be especially helpful as I do more research.

I'll keep you posted. Thanks.
06-14-2011, 08:20 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by addicted2climbing Quote
You will have 2 other issues but they are not too bad so long as you do still photography and not video. Your alignment will be an issue, but that can be fixed in PP. Most notably will be a vertical offset since there are not any controls between sensor placement and manufacturer and one camera will have a different height from the sensor center to the base of the camera over another. Just align the photo in PP.
SR is going to make this worse. Although my K-7 and some other cameras do offer the ability to shift the sensor, it is probably easier to do it in processing.

QuoteQuote:
Ok so here is the biggest issue. Lenses aren't matched to each other; even primes. so you could have a magnification issue between shots. Using a zoom can help by dialing it in, but it can also make things worse since it can be a pain in the butt, but if you take your time it may work out OK.
I'm still wondering about the best focal length. I was thinking that it might be tough to match exposure, because the aperture blades aren't meant to be that consistent. That's another PP issue. If 50mm works, you could probably buy a dozen M50/2s, select a pair with similar magnification and sell the rest. As I understand it, the shots are usually taken at apertures to maximize DOF, so superfast lenses aren't needed. Vignetting might be an issue, but a film lens at f11 probably will be OK.
06-14-2011, 10:44 PM   #8
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Hello Roger,

I have been thinking about how I mentioned primes will not be the same and while I do know that is the case, it may be OK for what you want. In the film industry everything is scrutinized to the pixel and the lenses we use are matched sets for this reason, but for your needs not being video and since you will have the ability to spend the time to adjust each image as needed it may not be an issue. Your just doing PP on two frames, whereas in a movie its 30 frames a second. I think you might be more willing to deal with some PP on one nice image then thousands of frames. so in a sense prime lenses that are close enough should work.

Just did not want to scare you away from trying due to what I mentioned.

Marc

06-16-2011, 08:58 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Just1MoreDave Quote
SR is going to make this worse. Although my K-7 and some other cameras do offer the ability to shift the sensor, it is probably easier to do it in processing.
Thanks for some more info, and things to think about. I do have access to some real fine brass shim stock. If the two sensors are too far off, I could make a physical adjustment under the camera.
06-16-2011, 09:25 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Just1MoreDave Quote
SR is going to make this worse. Although my K-7 and some other cameras do offer the ability to shift the sensor, it is probably easier to do it in processing.



I'm still wondering about the best focal length. I was thinking that it might be tough to match exposure, because the aperture blades aren't meant to be that consistent. That's another PP issue. If 50mm works, you could probably buy a dozen M50/2s, select a pair with similar magnification and sell the rest. As I understand it, the shots are usually taken at apertures to maximize DOF, so superfast lenses aren't needed. Vignetting might be an issue, but a film lens at f11 probably will be OK.
QuoteOriginally posted by addicted2climbing Quote
Hello Roger,

I have been thinking about how I mentioned primes will not be the same and while I do know that is the case, it may be OK for what you want. ... I think you might be more willing to deal with some PP on one nice image then thousands of frames. so in a sense prime lenses that are close enough should work.

Just did not want to scare you away from trying due to what I mentioned.

Marc
Marc,

Thanks for the additional info. I'm glad you think that the primes would probably be okay for what I want. I'm also thinking that once I have the cameras mounted, that I could take a series of images taken together, and at least do some batch processing for alignment.

I'm also thinking of physically moving a single camera side to side and taking two shots of the subject. That might work if my subject is stationary and lighting does not change. That might also work for calm days outdoors. I'd need to work out a mount that allows me to quickly and accurately move the camera, either manually or automatically.

I've never worked with stepping motors and a slide bar, and automating the shutter, etc. It could be programmed to step the proper distance sideways for the distance to subject and angle of view. It might make things easier for using two camera as well.

I'm sure that someone else has already done this, and it would be a shame to re-invent the wheel!

Roger
06-22-2011, 01:50 PM   #11
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If you just want to print, there are printers that will turn your regular shot into 3D. My Kodak all in one can do this but I don't know what the results look like

cheers
06-23-2011, 11:54 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by rgknief60 Quote
Marc,

Thanks for the additional info. I'm glad you think that the primes would probably be okay for what I want. I'm also thinking that once I have the cameras mounted, that I could take a series of images taken together, and at least do some batch processing for alignment.

I'm also thinking of physically moving a single camera side to side and taking two shots of the subject. That might work if my subject is stationary and lighting does not change. That might also work for calm days outdoors. I'd need to work out a mount that allows me to quickly and accurately move the camera, either manually or automatically.

I've never worked with stepping motors and a slide bar, and automating the shutter, etc. It could be programmed to step the proper distance sideways for the distance to subject and angle of view. It might make things easier for using two camera as well.

I'm sure that someone else has already done this, and it would be a shame to re-invent the wheel!

Roger
Roger,

For what you want to do you can use one single camera and a linear slide so long as your subject is static (ie nature, mountains) for anything else chances are you will need two cameras. It does not take much misalignment or dissimilarity in the images for your brain to pick it up and then that's how you get the eye strain. However in movies its more of an issue and your just going to have one pic to look at so the eye strain wont build up like it would in a movie. I think for your first tries you should just go with 2 cameras side by side (parallel ie no convergence) with your IO as close as you can get the 2 cameras together. My guess it will be around 3 to 4" or so. start with something that wont move like a car. If your dead set on using one camera then there are many off the shelve linear motion items you can buy, but for testing, maybe see if you can mount a ball bearing droor slide to your tripod (home depot or mcmaster carr has them) and then mount your camera to it. then just take your shot and then move it over a bit and shoot again. Don't bother with motorizing it. Or go on Ebay and buy a manual linear slide something from thomson or deltron should do the trick. I actually have a bunch in storage but would need to do some searching. if you cant find something let me know and I might have what you need.

Marc
06-24-2011, 01:40 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by rgknief60 Quote
.....

I'm also thinking of physically moving a single camera side to side and taking two shots of the subject. That might work if my subject is stationary and lighting does not change. That might also work for calm days outdoors. I'd need to work out a mount that allows me to quickly and accurately move the camera, either manually or automatically....
Roger
I've done it manually with focusing rails on a tripod; It worked well. 4 way Macro Shot Focusing Rail Slider for SLR DSLR DC | eBay

Fujifilm is now selling a 3D P&S camera that takes standard 3D movies as well as stills. FinePix REAL 3D W1 | Fujifilm Global
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