Nobody has patience for manual focus anymore

wlachan · 06-23-2011, 12:33 PM

I think there are enough people still enjoying manual focus if not for practical reason, to me at least. However, the viewfinder quality has been dropping so considerably in the last 3 decades that manual focus is no longer easy, accurate or fun. I have discovered the 10X LV with the 40D is awesome on accuracy, but then only useful on tripod with static target. It is particular useful for testing purposes but probably a rare example because it actually reads off the APS-C CMOS, not an extra LV sensor which might introduce another error.

joe.penn · 06-23-2011, 12:41 PM

Know and trust your camera and MF lenses, all else will come later...

...

RioRico · 06-23-2011, 01:31 PM

Originally posted by joe.penn

Know and trust your camera and MF lenses, all else will come later...

Yes, trust in The Force.
Note: CIF is The Force.

joe.penn · 06-23-2011, 01:47 PM

Originally posted by RioRico

Yes, trust in The Force.
Note: CIF is The Force.

Amen! To That...

--

theunartist · 06-23-2011, 05:34 PM

Originally posted by JeffJS

No one has patience for ANYthing anymore.

Originally posted by joe.penn

The LCD is the most deceptive thing on your camera - never, ever rely on an image looking good on the LCD. I use the LCD to cycle through images before deleting, menu functions, and histogram info...

Originally posted by maltfalc

if you're going to use cif, keep in mind that if you adjust the focus from near to far, the front of your subject will come into focus first and trigger the shutter. if you adjust the focus from far to near, the edges of your subject and reflections will come into focus first and may trigger the shutter sooner than you want.

"A man's got to know his limitations", Magnum Force (1973) - Memorable quotes

Practice, practice, practice... not only this but you might find each manual lens you have has it's own quirky trade marks, e.g. focusing better from infinity back or vice versa, make mental notes.

I would never use the LCD for manually focusing. I think when you use a manual focus lens and leave camera setting on Auto Focus, shutter will not fire unless your subject is in focus...

So yes, feeling the force is apropos but you got to know that feeling...

hcarvalhoalves · 06-23-2011, 05:35 PM

Jeez, I have been enjoying my MF primes on the K-x lately, despite the fact the viewfinder in it might be the most inappropriate thing to MF.

I, for one, would love if Pentax released anything with the same size and viewfinder as the one in my ME. As good as the latest AF systems are, it still gets many things wrong. MF could make a come back.

**Lowell Goudge** · 06-24-2011, 11:57 AM

this discussion has been beaten to death a few times.

My own solution is, when I am on my own time, I use old MF primes, (I have both K and M42 sets relitively complete, and fast to at least 200mm), when I am fitting my hobby (such as it is) into my family's time table on holidays or special occasions, I use my AF zooms (also fast and high quality)

After all, it is not a question of the photographer, but his family and friends that lack the patience.

**paulh** · 06-24-2011, 01:11 PM

Originally posted by theunartist

I think when you use a manual focus lens and leave camera setting on Auto Focus, shutter will not fire unless your subject is in focus...

Yes - I stumbled onto this a few weeks ago with my K100D - couldn't figure out what was going on when I'd do a focus/reframe/shoot with a 28mm MF lens. It wouldn't let me shoot until I refocused, and then I noticed the CIF thing was happening. Sure enough, the camera was accidentally set to AF. I tested this several times - it works!

As for me, I use MF when I'm trying a 'serious'

shot - taking time to compose, get the lighting right, etc. I love the rendering my MF primes give me. I use AF for more on-the-go shots, I guess. But the viewfinder complaint is a valid one - my cameras are old (istD and K100D), but the viewfinders are ok for MF. The istD is *more* than ok, it's fantastic. Then I picked up my wife's Sony A300, and wow -it's like trying to focus thru a pinhole - soo small. I can understand why she's a 95% AF shooter.

**Lowell Goudge** · 06-24-2011, 01:18 PM

If you have an issue with manual focus lenses and the shutter not firing, it is because you have the AF switch in the single / non continuous focus mode, there the shutter is interlocked with the focus confirmation. in AF-C (continuous) mode it will shoot regardless of focus confirmation. Manual focus as well is regardless of focus confirmation.

kenafein · 06-25-2011, 11:24 AM

Originally posted by k0og

Ken,

Yes, it works on the K100D. HOWEVER, if you use M42 lenses, you will need to put a thin piece of foil under the lens edge where the lens-mount contacts are to short them out. CIF will ONLY work if those pins are shorted, and a piece of foil does it. I use a thin piece of brass shim-stock (from the local automotive parts store) and slip it under the edge as I'm screwing down the Takumar lenses. The brass shim-stock is stiffer than aluminum foil, so holds up better. Buy a little piece of the shim-stock, then you can cut out a piece with scissors. I cut mine in a crescent shape with the same radius as the M42 lens mount (used a piece of paper to make a pattern first).

-Joe-

I tried this with my M lens to make sure that the contacts were shorted on my k100d, but it doesn't seem to work. Perhaps it was a feature added to the k100d super? Or am I doing something wrong? I get a red beep when it hits focus, but no auto take of the picture while half-depressing the shutter.

joe.penn · 06-25-2011, 11:27 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by kenafein

I get a red beep when it hits focus, but no auto take of the picture while half-depressing the shutter.

You need to press the shutter button "All The Way" down, not half. If CIF is enabled, press your shutter button down and hold it, as soon as focus is hit, it will fire...

---

kenafein · 06-25-2011, 12:03 PM

Originally posted by joe.penn

You need to press the shutter button "All The Way" down, not half. If CIF is enabled, press your shutter button down and hold it, as soon as focus is hit, it will fire...

---

If I do that it just takes the picture. There doesn't seem to be a menu option for the CIF as others mentioned there wouldn't be. I have it set to MF on the body and I've tried single and continuous modes from the menu. I'll give it a try with the K-r, hopefully it can work with the 100d though.

**paulh** · 06-25-2011, 12:15 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by kenafein

If I do that it just takes the picture. There doesn't seem to be a menu option for the CIF as others mentioned there wouldn't be. I have it set to MF on the body and I've tried single and continuous modes from the menu. I'll give it a try with the K-r, hopefully it can work with the 100d though.

As I mentioned earlier, on the K100D, using a manual lens (not M42) set the camera to AF-S (AF single frame). While holding the shutter button down, turn the focus ring on your subject. When it comes into focus, the camera will fire.

kenafein · 06-25-2011, 12:31 PM

Thanks, AF did it. I was setting manual and then setting drive to either single or continuous through the menu. Guess I need to try it with the foil on an m42 next.

joe.penn · 06-25-2011, 01:38 PM

Originally posted by kenafein

Guess I need to try it with the foil on an m42 next

Or the/a third party flange'd adapter....

06-23-2011, 05:35 PM	#21
hcarvalhoalves Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: São Paulo, Brazil Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,019	Jeez, I have been enjoying my MF primes on the K-x lately, despite the fact the viewfinder in it might be the most inappropriate thing to MF. I, for one, would love if Pentax released anything with the same size and viewfinder as the one in my ME. As good as the latest AF systems are, it still gets many things wrong. MF could make a come back. Last edited by hcarvalhoalves; 06-23-2011 at 05:44 PM.

06-24-2011, 01:11 PM	#23
paulh Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: DFW Texas/Ventura County, CA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 33,308	Originally posted by theunartist I think when you use a manual focus lens and leave camera setting on Auto Focus, shutter will not fire unless your subject is in focus... Yes - I stumbled onto this a few weeks ago with my K100D - couldn't figure out what was going on when I'd do a focus/reframe/shoot with a 28mm MF lens. It wouldn't let me shoot until I refocused, and then I noticed the CIF thing was happening. Sure enough, the camera was accidentally set to AF. I tested this several times - it works! As for me, I use MF when I'm trying a 'serious' shot - taking time to compose, get the lighting right, etc. I love the rendering my MF primes give me. I use AF for more on-the-go shots, I guess. But the viewfinder complaint is a valid one - my cameras are old (istD and K100D), but the viewfinders are ok for MF. The istD is more than ok, it's fantastic. Then I picked up my wife's Sony A300, and wow -it's like trying to focus thru a pinhole - soo small. I can understand why she's a 95% AF shooter. Last edited by paulh; 06-24-2011 at 01:37 PM.

06-24-2011, 01:18 PM	#24
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,891	shutter won't fire with MF lenses If you have an issue with manual focus lenses and the shutter not firing, it is because you have the AF switch in the single / non continuous focus mode, there the shutter is interlocked with the focus confirmation. in AF-C (continuous) mode it will shoot regardless of focus confirmation. Manual focus as well is regardless of focus confirmation.

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06-23-2011, 12:33 PM	#16
wlachan Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Canada Photos: Albums Posts: 2,625	I think there are enough people still enjoying manual focus if not for practical reason, to me at least. However, the viewfinder quality has been dropping so considerably in the last 3 decades that manual focus is no longer easy, accurate or fun. I have discovered the 10X LV with the 40D is awesome on accuracy, but then only useful on tripod with static target. It is particular useful for testing purposes but probably a rare example because it actually reads off the APS-C CMOS, not an extra LV sensor which might introduce another error.

06-23-2011, 12:41 PM	#17
joe.penn Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Maryland (Right Outside Washington DC) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,902	Know and trust your camera and MF lenses, all else will come later... ...

06-23-2011, 01:31 PM	#18
RioRico Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Limbo, California Posts: 11,263	Originally posted by joe.penn Know and trust your camera and MF lenses, all else will come later... Yes, trust in The Force. Note: CIF is The Force.

06-23-2011, 01:47 PM	#19
joe.penn Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Maryland (Right Outside Washington DC) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,902	Originally posted by RioRico Yes, trust in The Force. Note: CIF is The Force. Amen! To That... --

06-23-2011, 05:34 PM	#20
theunartist Inactive Account Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Baltimore Posts: 2,542	Originally posted by JeffJS No one has patience for ANYthing anymore. Originally posted by joe.penn The LCD is the most deceptive thing on your camera - never, ever rely on an image looking good on the LCD. I use the LCD to cycle through images before deleting, menu functions, and histogram info... Originally posted by maltfalc if you're going to use cif, keep in mind that if you adjust the focus from near to far, the front of your subject will come into focus first and trigger the shutter. if you adjust the focus from far to near, the edges of your subject and reflections will come into focus first and may trigger the shutter sooner than you want. "A man's got to know his limitations", Magnum Force (1973) - Memorable quotes Practice, practice, practice... not only this but you might find each manual lens you have has it's own quirky trade marks, e.g. focusing better from infinity back or vice versa, make mental notes. I would never use the LCD for manually focusing. I think when you use a manual focus lens and leave camera setting on Auto Focus, shutter will not fire unless your subject is in focus... So yes, feeling the force is apropos but you got to know that feeling...

06-24-2011, 11:57 AM	#22
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,891	this discussion has been beaten to death a few times. My own solution is, when I am on my own time, I use old MF primes, (I have both K and M42 sets relitively complete, and fast to at least 200mm), when I am fitting my hobby (such as it is) into my family's time table on holidays or special occasions, I use my AF zooms (also fast and high quality) After all, it is not a question of the photographer, but his family and friends that lack the patience.

06-25-2011, 11:24 AM	#25
kenafein Veteran Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Southern California Photos: Albums Posts: 4,082 Original Poster	Originally posted by k0og Ken, Yes, it works on the K100D. HOWEVER, if you use M42 lenses, you will need to put a thin piece of foil under the lens edge where the lens-mount contacts are to short them out. CIF will ONLY work if those pins are shorted, and a piece of foil does it. I use a thin piece of brass shim-stock (from the local automotive parts store) and slip it under the edge as I'm screwing down the Takumar lenses. The brass shim-stock is stiffer than aluminum foil, so holds up better. Buy a little piece of the shim-stock, then you can cut out a piece with scissors. I cut mine in a crescent shape with the same radius as the M42 lens mount (used a piece of paper to make a pattern first). -Joe- I tried this with my M lens to make sure that the contacts were shorted on my k100d, but it doesn't seem to work. Perhaps it was a feature added to the k100d super? Or am I doing something wrong? I get a red beep when it hits focus, but no auto take of the picture while half-depressing the shutter.

06-25-2011, 11:27 AM - 1 Like	#26
joe.penn Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Maryland (Right Outside Washington DC) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,902	Originally posted by kenafein I get a red beep when it hits focus, but no auto take of the picture while half-depressing the shutter. You need to press the shutter button "All The Way" down, not half. If CIF is enabled, press your shutter button down and hold it, as soon as focus is hit, it will fire... ---

06-25-2011, 12:03 PM	#27
kenafein Veteran Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Southern California Photos: Albums Posts: 4,082 Original Poster	Originally posted by joe.penn You need to press the shutter button "All The Way" down, not half. If CIF is enabled, press your shutter button down and hold it, as soon as focus is hit, it will fire... --- If I do that it just takes the picture. There doesn't seem to be a menu option for the CIF as others mentioned there wouldn't be. I have it set to MF on the body and I've tried single and continuous modes from the menu. I'll give it a try with the K-r, hopefully it can work with the 100d though.

06-25-2011, 12:15 PM - 1 Like	#28
paulh Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: DFW Texas/Ventura County, CA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 33,308	Originally posted by kenafein If I do that it just takes the picture. There doesn't seem to be a menu option for the CIF as others mentioned there wouldn't be. I have it set to MF on the body and I've tried single and continuous modes from the menu. I'll give it a try with the K-r, hopefully it can work with the 100d though. As I mentioned earlier, on the K100D, using a manual lens (not M42) set the camera to AF-S (AF single frame). While holding the shutter button down, turn the focus ring on your subject. When it comes into focus, the camera will fire.

06-25-2011, 12:31 PM	#29
kenafein Veteran Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Southern California Photos: Albums Posts: 4,082 Original Poster	Thanks, AF did it. I was setting manual and then setting drive to either single or continuous through the menu. Guess I need to try it with the foil on an m42 next.

06-25-2011, 01:38 PM	#30
joe.penn Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Maryland (Right Outside Washington DC) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,902	Originally posted by kenafein Guess I need to try it with the foil on an m42 next Or the/a third party flange'd adapter....