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07-18-2011, 08:57 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by 2cay2 Quote
OK, I've done some shots that hopefully will help.
Without reading the EXIF's, I'd say that you have here look like exposure issues, not WB. #5 is quit good; the others are over or under.

QuoteOriginally posted by enoeske Quote
Perhaps you prefer a certain look to your images instead of the correct, accurate colors.
What I see and what the camera sees are not the same. I don't see the blue cast that a cloudless sky give to the captured images. Those "correct, accurate' colors AREN'T what a scene looks like. The Sony and Pentax AWB systems I mentioned just don't evaluate color temperature very well.

07-18-2011, 09:02 AM - 1 Like   #17
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Remember, the camera doesn't know what the scene really looks like or what you want it to look like. All it does is try to get the scene to average to 18% gray.

In the first image (auto), the camera quite correctly nailed the exposure. You listed f/11, 1/100 and ISO 200 -- a quick reshuffle shows that to be f/16, 1/100 ISO 100 which is the sunny 16 rule (although its not sunny). With the bright sky in the image, the shady ground will probably underexpose from where you want it, but the scene is a nice 18% average.

In image 2 and 3, it looks like you kept all things the same and just changed the aperture, which is going to hugely effect the exposure. f/5.6 is overexposed and f/4 is going to be even more so.

Back up to f/8, you are now better exposed for the ground at the expense of the sky detail. Its a personal choice whether you keep the sky detail but underexpose the ground (as in the first image) or whether you get the ground detail but overexpose the sky. Former, as you can usually boost the ground back from the darks but not they sky back from white.

Overall, doesn't look like there is any problem with the camera's exposure. My guess would be you hit the limit of your camera in the deceiving darkness of the indoors. It can look bright enough, but often isn't. If you have the ISO set only to go to ISO 1600 max and use the kit lens indoors, you are asking for underexposures.
07-18-2011, 09:19 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by enoeske Quote
Overall, doesn't look like there is any problem with the camera's exposure. My guess would be you hit the limit of your camera in the deceiving darkness of the indoors. It can look bright enough, but often isn't. If you have the ISO set only to go to ISO 1600 max and use the kit lens indoors, you are asking for underexposures.
That is reasurring thank you. I don't understand ISO at all - no idea what it is! But I can set it to a max of 6400. Will this help with the indoor shots?
I will do a bit of research on ISO as this is obviously important!
07-18-2011, 09:27 AM   #19
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White balance looks fine on them all, exposure looks best on the last one.

07-18-2011, 09:32 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by JohnBee Quote
Last one looks very good.
Anyways, try getting some white balance cards(or caps there cheap), and that will help balance things out.
Other than that, I'd recommend taking control of your settings(manually) so as to get all you can out of your scenes.
.
Thanks for the advice
I took these shots just as a test to see if it was me or the camera that was causing my problems. Looks like it's me!
I was wrong initially thinking it was a white balance problem I was having, however I have learnt alot from you guys about white balance now, so I will be able to take this into account as well in future. Including using caps/cards

So, back to more experimenting to see if I can get the image I want for my cat drawing and future time lapse photos, armed with the extra knowledge I've learned from you guys.
No doubt I'll be back soon
07-18-2011, 09:38 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by 2cay2 Quote
So, back to more experimenting to see if I can get the image I want ...
This is the key to learning. Start one attribute at a time; aperture, shutter, ISO. Learn what each does individually and then how they effect the others.
07-18-2011, 01:13 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by 2cay2 Quote
That is reasurring thank you. I don't understand ISO at all - no idea what it is! But I can set it to a max of 6400. Will this help with the indoor shots?
I will do a bit of research on ISO as this is obviously important!
It's pretty similar to the volume knob on a radio. Turn it up, but after a certain point, it makes things very unpleasant. Instead, you're better off changing something else, not fixing everything with one knob.
07-18-2011, 01:20 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by RioRico Quote
Without reading the EXIF's, I'd say that you have here look like exposure issues, not WB. #5 is quit good; the others are over or under.


What I see and what the camera sees are not the same. I don't see the blue cast that a cloudless sky give to the captured images. Those "correct, accurate' colors AREN'T what a scene looks like. The Sony and Pentax AWB systems I mentioned just don't evaluate color temperature very well.
+1
This looks like an exposure problem. Are you using spot metering, matrix, or center-weighted? Improper metering will leave the shots underexposed many times, like the example you posted of the cat.

07-18-2011, 01:21 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by enoeske Quote
Perhaps you prefer a certain look to your images instead of the correct, accurate colors.
There is no such thing as "correct, accurate colors" in any objective sense. A white piece of paper looks blue in blue light just as surely as a blue piece of paper does in white light. It is a completely subjective determination as to what extent you want your photograph to show the color of the light that is actually versus to attempt to lie and remove it.
07-18-2011, 01:26 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Just1MoreDave Quote
It's pretty similar to the volume knob on a radio. Turn it up, but after a certain point, it makes things very unpleasant. Instead, you're better off changing something else, not fixing everything with one knob.
I'd say it's a little different from that, though - it's like turning up the volume, but also moving further away so it doesn't actually sound any louder. After all, turning up ISO won't normally make a picture brighter - the camera will compensate by adjusting shutter speed or aperture. Unless you are in "M" mode.

To the OP, as I often do, I recommend a visit to your local library or bookstore for basic book on photography. The fundamentals of exposure - shutter speed, aperture, and ISO haven't changed for over 100 years except that what we now call ISO (International Standards Organization) was previously called ASA (American Standards Association). Pretty much any book on photography should explain it more or less the same way. And I'm sure there are web sites out there, and while I don't know the names of any offhand, I'll bet Google does.
07-18-2011, 02:00 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by Marc Sabatella Quote
I'd say it's a little different from that, though - it's like turning up the volume, but also moving further away so it doesn't actually sound any louder...
Also, no local ordinances to prevent ISO 6400 on the K-7. But maybe there should be.

Here is the downside of noise. Keep in mind, I chose the highest possible ISO for this camera, then made no effort to reduce noise in camera or processing, then magnified the noise by displaying the pixels full-size, and chose a dark portion to show:



Just downsizing the image and showing the whole shot helps:

07-19-2011, 06:32 PM   #27
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You know, that's actually not all that bad for a 100% crop from the worst portion of a picture taken with no NR at ISO 6400 on a camera with such a bad reputation for high ISO noise. Mostly chroma noise that should clean up pretty well. Obviously, some of the newer sensors do better, but still...
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