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07-23-2011, 05:13 AM   #1
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Mirror issue or Lens?

I am noticing some issues after I started using a manual lens (M85 f2) which is my first manual lens. Have not seen this with my DA lens. And not sure if this is a lens issue.

I noticed this 3-4 times between yesterday and today. Once when I pressed the green button for metering the display went blank and nothing happens. Shutter doesn't work or any button for that matter. And other times I noticed this when releasing the shutter - the same happened the display or viewfinder went black after the shuttter release noise. Yesterday, I saw this a bit differently the viewfinder mostly was black but for few spots through which i was able to view still.

The unit remains dormant until i remove the battery and insert it again (and when i do this I can hear the shutter release sound as if something was released from that was stuck) then all is normal. First I thought, it could be my low battery that didnt have enough power to flip the mirror or something (since even my battery was low) but today my battery is full still this happened.

Please tell me there is nothing seriously wrong or I have to go thru the pain of shipping for service as I dont have in the country i live.

S


Last edited by sany; 07-23-2011 at 06:12 AM.
07-23-2011, 05:56 AM   #2
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First, congrats on getting an M85/2. This is a lens I'd love to own myself.

Second, the behaviour you are observing shouldn't happen. Seems to be a problem with the camera. I doubt that the lens is causing it, although that's difficult to rule out. Have you checked that the aperture lever on the lens moves freely? Set the lens to its smallest aperture and then gently move the aperture lever on the lens while looking through it. The aperture blades should open and close smoothly.

I guess you enabled the option to "enable lenses with an aperture ring"?

Hopefully someone else can better help you. At the moment, it looks like a camera issue. It is strange, however, that it only occurs with the M85/2 and not with your DA 35/2.4.

Last edited by Class A; 07-23-2011 at 09:24 PM.
07-23-2011, 06:33 AM   #3
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My first two k-5 bodies both would hang like that with any lens once the battery got too low. Instead of switching automagically to the body or grip battery, or just giving the message, most of the time it locks like yours. But I never had a lock up when the battery was above low. Also, it was very repeatable if I stuck the same low battery back in and took shots it would lock on the first or second try. So if using a charged battery prevents it, welcome to the k-5 bug club. If it locks with a charged battery but only that lens.....good luck with that. Good luck regardless.
07-23-2011, 07:10 AM   #4
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Happens occassionaly with my manual lenses. Definitely depends on battery power...

07-23-2011, 07:49 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
First, congrats on getting an M85/2. This is a lens I'd love to own myself.

Second, the behaviour you are observing shouldn't happen. Seems to be a problem with the camera. I doubt that the lens is causing it, although that's difficult to rule out. Have you checked that the aperture lever on the lens moves freely? Set the lens to its widest aperture and then gently move the aperture lever on the lens while looking through it. The aperture blades should open and close smoothly.

I guess you enabled the option to "enable lenses with an aperture ring"?

Hopefully someone else can better help you. At the moment, it looks like a camera issue. It is strange, however, that it only occurs with the M85/2 and not with your DA 35/2.4.
This is backwards.. Set the lens to its Smallest aperture (f22) and exercise the aperture lever. The Camera holds them open until the shutter release is pressed (or the green button for metering or optical preview),

I would try doing a reset of everything in the camera just on the chance you've set something inadvertently. There are two or three of them scattered about. I would also format the card. Just to rule things out before believing I have a defective camera.

Yes, it Is strange that it only happens with an M type lens. Have you Ever been able to take a photo with it?

07-23-2011, 11:59 AM   #6
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Yes I did took some pics, you can see it here on post no. 2691.

This happened between those shots. the mirror stopped half way or got hung somewhere until the battery was removed and reset.
07-23-2011, 05:59 PM - 1 Like   #7
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You've found a nice lens... You say the problem occurs when you press the green button to meter. When the green button is pressed, the camera moves a little knuckle at nine o'clock position in the camera body (looking at the camera from the front), which in turn pushes the diaphragm actuating lever on your M lens. At the moment the diaphragm is closed down to the set aperture value the camera takes a meter reading for the exposure. It may be possible the diaphragm actuating lever is bent and the knuckle shoots past the lever and become bound together. And it stays bound together because the camera is still waiting for the aperture to close down to take a meter reading, requiring a complete shut down to unbind the knuckle from the lever. So, I conjecture.

Compare the diaphragm actuating lever from the M85/2.0 with a trouble free lens (AF lens will do), if it's bent try straightening it to resemble the trouble free one. It's all I can think of since you say this issue only affects your latest acquisition.

Thanks,
07-23-2011, 09:26 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by JeffJS Quote
This is backwards.. Set the lens to its Smallest aperture (f22) and exercise the aperture lever.
Yes, "smallest" is correct. Sorry for the hiccup.

To the OP, currently excanonfd's suggestion seems to be the most promising to me.

07-24-2011, 09:45 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by JeffJS Quote
This is backwards.. Set the lens to its Smallest aperture (f22) and exercise the aperture lever. The Camera holds them open until the shutter release is pressed (or the green button for metering or optical preview),

I would try doing a reset of everything in the camera just on the chance you've set something inadvertently. There are two or three of them scattered about. I would also format the card. Just to rule things out before believing I have a defective camera.

Yes, it Is strange that it only happens with an M type lens. Have you Ever been able to take a photo with it?

Thanks for the suggestion, I tried this can't visibly see any difference happening as I change the aperture. What am I supposed to look for while I am doing this please?
07-24-2011, 09:53 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by excanonfd Quote
You've found a nice lens... You say the problem occurs when you press the green button to meter. When the green button is pressed, the camera moves a little knuckle at nine o'clock position in the camera body (looking at the camera from the front), which in turn pushes the diaphragm actuating lever on your M lens. At the moment the diaphragm is closed down to the set aperture value the camera takes a meter reading for the exposure. It may be possible the diaphragm actuating lever is bent and the knuckle shoots past the lever and become bound together. And it stays bound together because the camera is still waiting for the aperture to close down to take a meter reading, requiring a complete shut down to unbind the knuckle from the lever. So, I conjecture.

Compare the diaphragm actuating lever from the M85/2.0 with a trouble free lens (AF lens will do), if it's bent try straightening it to resemble the trouble free one. It's all I can think of since you say this issue only affects your latest acquisition.

Thanks,
Thanks Excanfold, I guess this could be the issue. I gave it a go now - my first survey indicates it could be something like what you say. As it has become darker I will wait for this weekend to see this properly in daylight.

This exercise is very minute that I suspect it will be very hard to detect by just bare eyes as I can only compare by looking for the space between this lever and the lens rim and this tiny space compared to my DA 35 f2.4 slightly looks uneven again not sure as the lever length also differs from the other lens so I am not sure I can judge going by this and bending the lever based on this could lead to serious issues to aperture blades? How strong is this for straightening?

I will try and post the pictures later. Also, what happens if I live with the issue - will this anyway affect my body?

thanks again for the suggestion, I guess as of now we are close to the root of the problem.
07-24-2011, 12:10 PM   #11
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The diaphragm actuation lever is not directly connected to the aperture blades so it will not affect them. The lever should be parallel with the shield. If the lever is bent outward, place the lever against a flat edge of a table and gently push against it, if it's bent inward stick a steel ruler or flat screwdriver and gently pry out. The trick is to exert pressure on all of the exposed portion of the lever and not just at the tip.

Why would you want to 'live with it'? If you don't mind having to power down completely in the middle of a shoot because of this, I suppose you could but it would drive me up the wall and soon the lens would become a paperweight - that would be the worst tragedy of all.

I took a look at my K20D's in body actuator, it seems to be made of plastic and is rounded at the tip. My SuperProgram's lever is made of metal and also rounded at the tip. I suspect the diaphragm actuating lever on your lens is bent inward and is slipping past the rounded tip of the body's DOF knuckle and binding against the lever shield on the lens. If you try to 'live with this', the in body actuator may wear out prematurely and affect the normal operation of all your lenses.

Thanks,
07-24-2011, 02:45 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by sany Quote
Thanks for the suggestion, I tried this can't visibly see any difference happening as I change the aperture. What am I supposed to look for while I am doing this please?
Looking at the rear of the lens, (with it off of the camera) set to f22, the aperture should be stopped all the way down (small hole visible). When you move the lever on the rear, you should see them Open (large hole). When you release the lever, the blades should snap back closed (small hole). Everything should move freely with no friction at all. If something rubs or drags, fix it.

08-19-2011, 06:31 AM   #13
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Same on k-r with SMC-M 100mm Macro

I just picked up a SMC-M 100mm f4 Macro to use on my k-r. This lens/body combo is showing the exact same glitch - green button stops down, meters...awkwardly...exposure takes pic but locks up mirror. Nothing helps from there except taking out the battery and putting it back in. I've had this happen only once or twice with an old SMC-M 50mm. k-r behaves properly with all other lenses. I'll try it out on my back-up K100D later to see if it repeats.

Looks to be a pretty sweet lens...would hate to have it become a "paperweight".



Maybe we can diagnose and correct this problem before that happens.
08-19-2011, 08:38 AM   #14
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yes, pls keep me updated if you notice anything fishy like those suspected above, although i cant notice anything obvious i still tried to give the lever some gentle pressure and hopefully it solved. I didn't use it extensively to see the problem again buy I am still keeping a watchful eye on the issue
08-21-2011, 07:41 AM   #15
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OK - update: SMC-M 100mm f4 Macro, mounted on the K100D, just shot 100+ without missing a beat. No hangups, no arguments, no big deal. Very nice lens. I don't think battery power level has anything to do with the hangups on the K-r, as it did same with fresh charge battery. Feels to me like a simple mechanical problem, likely in the linkage, as speculated above.
I'm thinking my simple solution to this problem is to leave the macro mounted on the K100D. That 6.1meg sensor really is pretty sufficient for most purposes, after all. I'm not inclined to go tweaking levers and tabs on either the new K-r body or the sweet lens, hoping for a solution...but if one of you does, I'd LOVE to hear your results!
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