How to blur moving water

**mattt** · 08-31-2011, 06:22 PM - **1 Like**

First one, taken at dusk, no filter, no tripod

Second one taken early evening with ND8 (3 Stop ND Filter), tripod used.

Exif attached - go play, click away, have fun! Check out Bryan Paterson's Understanding Exposure. (3rd Ed. Pg 92 has waterfall)

One must learn by doing the thing. For though you think you know it, you have no certainly until you try. - Sophocles

Last edited by mattt; 01-07-2016 at 05:34 PM.

snostorm · 09-01-2011, 08:30 AM - **3 Likes**

Hi gunsmoke,

You have a Kr, so there's another option -- Multi-exposure mode with Ev compensation. This has been available on the lower level bodies since the Kx. A tripod is really all you need, and this technique can be used in just about any lighting conditions.

Use lowest fixed ISO and meter in M or Av mode using a small aperture to get longer shutter speeds, then use Multi-exposure mode with Ev compensation "on". An explanation on how to set up this mode is on pg 153 on your user's manual. With Ev comp "on", the camera automatically adjusts the Ev for each of the shots so all the shots gives you a cumulative exposure equivalent to a single exposure at your settings.

It effectively multiplies your exposure time by as much as 9x (or however many exposures you choose between 2 and 9), and superimposes the shots on the same frame, automatically adjusting for exposure. The longer exposures plus the different positions of the moving water from each exposure give you that "milky" look to the water. It takes a little experimentation to get the exactly the effect that you want, but it's a worthwhile technique to learn.

Scott

MadAmos · 09-01-2011, 12:41 PM

Originally posted by mattt

First one, taken at dusk, no filter, no tripod

Second one taken early evening with ND8 (3 Stop ND Filter), tripod used.

Exif attached - go play, click away, have fun! Check out Bryan Paterson's Understanding Exposure. (3rd Ed. Pg 92 has waterfall)

One must learn by doing the thing. For though you think you know it, you have no certainly until you try. - Sophocles

Love those shots.

For the original poster - lots of good advice already given, to give the short version I have gathered from looking around: The easiest way to get the shot is to use an ND filter and a tripod, and fiddle around with shutter speed and aperture until you like it. Scott Kelby recorded a nice tutorial: Tutorial on Shooting Long Exposure Black & White Images

This is one I took recently, the first time I got to take out my ND filter. I need more practice but I liked how the water turned out.

RioRico · 09-01-2011, 01:10 PM

Originally posted by snostorm

You have a Kr, so there's another option -- Multi-exposure mode with Ev compensation. This has been available on the lower level bodies since the Kx.

+1!! Thanks for reminding us of this technique. It's also available on the K20D -- cf p.103 in its manual. I've used it a little but not for flowing|falling water -- too little of that around here! At least until the spring thaw anyway. Dang, nothing much moves around my place except deer and dust clouds.

But I digress. I wrote a note in my manual that MultiExposure might not work with a wired remote, but I don't recall if that is true, and I'm too lazy to test it right now. I also see that MultiExposure doesn't work with Interval Shooting on the K20D. Can|will any here share their experiences with MultiExposure on various cameras?

DaveHolmes · 09-01-2011, 07:07 PM

Originally posted by RioRico

cover the viewfinder

Originally posted by KSmith

cover your viewfinder when shooting long exposures

Does/Can light hit the sensor via the viewfinder? I've taken loads of long exposures and never thought of doing this... In fact long exposures are some of the 'few' times I use 'LiveView'... I always assumed that light could only reach the sensor via the lens... Not had a shot with my eyeball in it yet anyway:-)

noblepa · 09-01-2011, 09:09 PM

Originally posted by DaveHolmes

Does/Can light hit the sensor via the viewfinder? I've taken loads of long exposures and never thought of doing this... In fact long exposures are some of the 'few' times I use 'LiveView'... I always assumed that light could only reach the sensor via the lens... Not had a shot with my eyeball in it yet anyway:-)

No, light can not enter through the viewfinder and get to the sensor, DURING THE EXPOSURE. However, when the camera is on a tripod, you often don't have your eye to the VF when you half-press the shutter to activate the meter. Since the light meter cells are in the VF, not the mirror box, light entering through the eyepieces can indeed, affect the exposure calculated by the meter.

When I first got my K10D, I discovered that, on a sunny day, the light entering the eyepiece can throw the exposure off by two or more stops. That's why they include the eyepiece cover and why it is a good idea to keep track of it. They're easy to lose. If you have already lost yours, anything will do; a piece of black tape, duct tape or even your thumb, although this might risk moving the camera.

**Just1MoreDave** · 09-02-2011, 11:22 AM

Originally posted by DaveHolmes

Does/Can light hit the sensor via the viewfinder? I've taken loads of long exposures and never thought of doing this... In fact long exposures are some of the 'few' times I use 'LiveView'... I always assumed that light could only reach the sensor via the lens... Not had a shot with my eyeball in it yet anyway:-)

I never had trouble with this until I tried IR photos with the K-7. That means exposure times of 8 to 20 seconds in bright sunlight, without my eye shading the viewfinder because I'm using a tripod. In less extreme conditions, it'll be less of a problem, but it's good practice to avoid the problem when it might happen. It's really annoying to see an issue after a day of shooting. Here's one example after processing to minimize the effect:

Last edited by Just1MoreDave; 09-02-2011 at 11:40 AM.

noblepa · 09-02-2011, 11:58 AM

During the actual exposure, the mirror is up, blocking any light from travelling through the VF to the image sensor.

During metering, however, the mirror is still down and the sensors for the lightmeter are in the pentaprism/pentamirror, so light can come through an unprotected eyepiece to fool the meter into making a wrong exposure.

When shooting IR, the builtin meter is not used, is it? Therefore, light from the eyepiece affecting the meter would be irrelevant. Again, during exposure, the mirror is up, blocking light from the VF from hitting the image sensor. But then, I've never shot any IR.

**Just1MoreDave** · 09-02-2011, 12:13 PM

Originally posted by RioRico

+1!! Thanks for reminding us of this technique. It's also available on the K20D -- cf p.103 in its manual. I've used it a little but not for flowing|falling water -- too little of that around here! At least until the spring thaw anyway. Dang, nothing much moves around my place except deer and dust clouds.

But I digress. I wrote a note in my manual that MultiExposure might not work with a wired remote, but I don't recall if that is true, and I'm too lazy to test it right now. I also see that MultiExposure doesn't work with Interval Shooting on the K20D. Can|will any here share their experiences with MultiExposure on various cameras?

No Multi-Exposure on the *ist DS, DS2, DL, DL2, K100D, K100D Super, K200D or K2000/K-m.

On the K-7, you have to use the Recording Mode menu, page 2 to start Multi-Exposure or Interval Shooting, then choose number of shots and other options from there, then start the process with the OK button and shutter button. So neither wired or IR remote would work. You'd need some kind of advanced tethering control, which might not exist for the K-7.

Based on the manuals, the K-5, K-x and K-r look the same as the K-7 to me.

The K10D and K20D have menu options in different places but essentially the same kind of setup. Remote Access software might work here.

The *ist D has Multi Exposure and an unusual way of doing it that also looks incompatible with a remote.

**Just1MoreDave** · 09-02-2011, 12:26 PM

Originally posted by noblepa

During the actual exposure, the mirror is up, blocking any light from travelling through the VF to the image sensor.

During metering, however, the mirror is still down and the sensors for the lightmeter are in the pentaprism/pentamirror, so light can come through an unprotected eyepiece to fool the meter into making a wrong exposure.

When shooting IR, the builtin meter is not used, is it? Therefore, light from the eyepiece affecting the meter would be irrelevant. Again, during exposure, the mirror is up, blocking light from the VF from hitting the image sensor. But then, I've never shot any IR.

I think the mirror should work but the seal isn't perfect. For my example above, there's about 14 stops between a visible-light exposure and the IR shot. (Normally that extra light is outside of the DR of the sensor.)

jcob · 09-02-2011, 01:17 PM

I'm curious about the VF affecting exposure as well since I'm going to be experimenting with daytime long exposures very soon. If the VF cap/tape/whatever is only to keep excess light out when metering in an auto mode, would it work just as well to use the AE lock button and then not have to worry about a cap for the VF?

KSmith · 09-02-2011, 02:14 PM

Myself, covering the viewfinder during the exposure ( anywhere from 1sec to 8min ) is one of those things that I have been told and not really questioned ( perhaps until now ! ). Accepted as standard procedure if you will.
I came across this however : Covering the Eyepiece During Long Exposures | James T Photography

Not exactly scientific but perhaps supports the notion of covering the VF. Maybe I'll get around to doing some tests of my own, but covering has become automatic - almost as if not covering would somehow jinx the shot.

Ken

JimC1101 · 09-04-2011, 01:16 AM

No need to use filter or tripod, just increase the shutter speed to around 1/10 and don't forget to stop down (Increase the aperture number) since the slower shutter speed will increase the amount of light hitting the sensor thus overexposing. Taken with my K-x handheld in M mode.

cats_five · 09-04-2011, 03:33 AM

1/10 is about the starting point for blurry water shots IMHO, and if you are having to stop down to f22 to get that sort of shutter speed without overexposing the image you need ND filters - the image quality from nearly all lenses (all I know of) is dropping off at that sort of f-stop. And even at 1/10 if you don't use a tripod or some method of helping steady the camera you will almost certainly find the image will have camera shake.

JimC1101 · 09-04-2011, 12:18 PM

The one I posted above was with the 18-55 kit, 1/10 @ F22 handheld using a hood. I think it looks pretty clean to me in regard to camera shake and edge to edge sharpnes at that high of an aperture with the kit lens but comments are most certainly welcome. Here is one I took with my wife at 1/10 but I opened up a little bit to F14 since the scene was not as dark. I agree, 1/10 is right at the start pont of bluring water. I could have gone a little slower but I got the effect I was looking for

. Goes to show that the SR really does make a difference.

09-02-2011, 02:14 PM	#27
KSmith Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Montreal Posts: 54	to cover or not to cover Myself, covering the viewfinder during the exposure ( anywhere from 1sec to 8min ) is one of those things that I have been told and not really questioned ( perhaps until now ! ). Accepted as standard procedure if you will. I came across this however : Covering the Eyepiece During Long Exposures \| James T Photography Not exactly scientific but perhaps supports the notion of covering the VF. Maybe I'll get around to doing some tests of my own, but covering has become automatic - almost as if not covering would somehow jinx the shot. Ken

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08-31-2011, 06:22 PM - 1 Like	#16
mattt Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Niagara Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,907	First one, taken at dusk, no filter, no tripod Second one taken early evening with ND8 (3 Stop ND Filter), tripod used. Exif attached - go play, click away, have fun! Check out Bryan Paterson's Understanding Exposure. (3rd Ed. Pg 92 has waterfall) One must learn by doing the thing. For though you think you know it, you have no certainly until you try. - Sophocles Last edited by mattt; 01-07-2016 at 05:34 PM.

09-01-2011, 08:30 AM - 3 Likes	#17
snostorm Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Chicago suburb, IL, USA Posts: 1,535	Hi gunsmoke, You have a Kr, so there's another option -- Multi-exposure mode with Ev compensation. This has been available on the lower level bodies since the Kx. A tripod is really all you need, and this technique can be used in just about any lighting conditions. Use lowest fixed ISO and meter in M or Av mode using a small aperture to get longer shutter speeds, then use Multi-exposure mode with Ev compensation "on". An explanation on how to set up this mode is on pg 153 on your user's manual. With Ev comp "on", the camera automatically adjusts the Ev for each of the shots so all the shots gives you a cumulative exposure equivalent to a single exposure at your settings. It effectively multiplies your exposure time by as much as 9x (or however many exposures you choose between 2 and 9), and superimposes the shots on the same frame, automatically adjusting for exposure. The longer exposures plus the different positions of the moving water from each exposure give you that "milky" look to the water. It takes a little experimentation to get the exactly the effect that you want, but it's a worthwhile technique to learn. Scott

09-01-2011, 12:41 PM	#18
MadAmos Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 50	Originally posted by mattt First one, taken at dusk, no filter, no tripod Second one taken early evening with ND8 (3 Stop ND Filter), tripod used. Exif attached - go play, click away, have fun! Check out Bryan Paterson's Understanding Exposure. (3rd Ed. Pg 92 has waterfall) One must learn by doing the thing. For though you think you know it, you have no certainly until you try. - Sophocles Love those shots. For the original poster - lots of good advice already given, to give the short version I have gathered from looking around: The easiest way to get the shot is to use an ND filter and a tripod, and fiddle around with shutter speed and aperture until you like it. Scott Kelby recorded a nice tutorial: Tutorial on Shooting Long Exposure Black & White Images This is one I took recently, the first time I got to take out my ND filter. I need more practice but I liked how the water turned out.

09-01-2011, 01:10 PM	#19
RioRico Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Limbo, California Posts: 11,263	Originally posted by snostorm You have a Kr, so there's another option -- Multi-exposure mode with Ev compensation. This has been available on the lower level bodies since the Kx. +1!! Thanks for reminding us of this technique. It's also available on the K20D -- cf p.103 in its manual. I've used it a little but not for flowing\|falling water -- too little of that around here! At least until the spring thaw anyway. Dang, nothing much moves around my place except deer and dust clouds. But I digress. I wrote a note in my manual that MultiExposure might not work with a wired remote, but I don't recall if that is true, and I'm too lazy to test it right now. I also see that MultiExposure doesn't work with Interval Shooting on the K20D. Can\|will any here share their experiences with MultiExposure on various cameras?

09-01-2011, 07:07 PM	#20
DaveHolmes Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 1,501	Originally posted by RioRico cover the viewfinder Originally posted by KSmith cover your viewfinder when shooting long exposures Does/Can light hit the sensor via the viewfinder? I've taken loads of long exposures and never thought of doing this... In fact long exposures are some of the 'few' times I use 'LiveView'... I always assumed that light could only reach the sensor via the lens... Not had a shot with my eyeball in it yet anyway:-)

09-01-2011, 09:09 PM	#21
noblepa Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bay Village, Ohio USA Posts: 1,142	Originally posted by DaveHolmes Does/Can light hit the sensor via the viewfinder? I've taken loads of long exposures and never thought of doing this... In fact long exposures are some of the 'few' times I use 'LiveView'... I always assumed that light could only reach the sensor via the lens... Not had a shot with my eyeball in it yet anyway:-) No, light can not enter through the viewfinder and get to the sensor, DURING THE EXPOSURE. However, when the camera is on a tripod, you often don't have your eye to the VF when you half-press the shutter to activate the meter. Since the light meter cells are in the VF, not the mirror box, light entering through the eyepieces can indeed, affect the exposure calculated by the meter. When I first got my K10D, I discovered that, on a sunny day, the light entering the eyepiece can throw the exposure off by two or more stops. That's why they include the eyepiece cover and why it is a good idea to keep track of it. They're easy to lose. If you have already lost yours, anything will do; a piece of black tape, duct tape or even your thumb, although this might risk moving the camera.

09-02-2011, 11:22 AM	#22
Just1MoreDave Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Aurora, CO Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,340	Originally posted by DaveHolmes Does/Can light hit the sensor via the viewfinder? I've taken loads of long exposures and never thought of doing this... In fact long exposures are some of the 'few' times I use 'LiveView'... I always assumed that light could only reach the sensor via the lens... Not had a shot with my eyeball in it yet anyway:-) I never had trouble with this until I tried IR photos with the K-7. That means exposure times of 8 to 20 seconds in bright sunlight, without my eye shading the viewfinder because I'm using a tripod. In less extreme conditions, it'll be less of a problem, but it's good practice to avoid the problem when it might happen. It's really annoying to see an issue after a day of shooting. Here's one example after processing to minimize the effect: Last edited by Just1MoreDave; 09-02-2011 at 11:40 AM.

09-02-2011, 11:58 AM	#23
noblepa Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bay Village, Ohio USA Posts: 1,142	During the actual exposure, the mirror is up, blocking any light from travelling through the VF to the image sensor. During metering, however, the mirror is still down and the sensors for the lightmeter are in the pentaprism/pentamirror, so light can come through an unprotected eyepiece to fool the meter into making a wrong exposure. When shooting IR, the builtin meter is not used, is it? Therefore, light from the eyepiece affecting the meter would be irrelevant. Again, during exposure, the mirror is up, blocking light from the VF from hitting the image sensor. But then, I've never shot any IR.

09-02-2011, 12:13 PM	#24
Just1MoreDave Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Aurora, CO Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,340	Originally posted by RioRico +1!! Thanks for reminding us of this technique. It's also available on the K20D -- cf p.103 in its manual. I've used it a little but not for flowing\|falling water -- too little of that around here! At least until the spring thaw anyway. Dang, nothing much moves around my place except deer and dust clouds. But I digress. I wrote a note in my manual that MultiExposure might not work with a wired remote, but I don't recall if that is true, and I'm too lazy to test it right now. I also see that MultiExposure doesn't work with Interval Shooting on the K20D. Can\|will any here share their experiences with MultiExposure on various cameras? No Multi-Exposure on the ist DS, DS2, DL, DL2, K100D, K100D Super, K200D or K2000/K-m. On the K-7, you have to use the Recording Mode menu, page 2 to start Multi-Exposure or Interval Shooting, then choose number of shots and other options from there, then start the process with the OK button and shutter button. So neither wired or IR remote would work. You'd need some kind of advanced tethering control, which might not exist for the K-7. Based on the manuals, the K-5, K-x and K-r look the same as the K-7 to me. The K10D and K20D have menu options in different places but essentially the same kind of setup. Remote Access software might work here. The ist D has Multi Exposure and an unusual way of doing it that also looks incompatible with a remote.

09-02-2011, 12:26 PM	#25
Just1MoreDave Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Aurora, CO Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,340	Originally posted by noblepa During the actual exposure, the mirror is up, blocking any light from travelling through the VF to the image sensor. During metering, however, the mirror is still down and the sensors for the lightmeter are in the pentaprism/pentamirror, so light can come through an unprotected eyepiece to fool the meter into making a wrong exposure. When shooting IR, the builtin meter is not used, is it? Therefore, light from the eyepiece affecting the meter would be irrelevant. Again, during exposure, the mirror is up, blocking light from the VF from hitting the image sensor. But then, I've never shot any IR. I think the mirror should work but the seal isn't perfect. For my example above, there's about 14 stops between a visible-light exposure and the IR shot. (Normally that extra light is outside of the DR of the sensor.)

09-02-2011, 01:17 PM	#26
jcob New Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Photos: Gallery Posts: 15	I'm curious about the VF affecting exposure as well since I'm going to be experimenting with daytime long exposures very soon. If the VF cap/tape/whatever is only to keep excess light out when metering in an auto mode, would it work just as well to use the AE lock button and then not have to worry about a cap for the VF?

09-04-2011, 01:16 AM	#28
JimC1101 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Fremont, Ca Photos: Albums Posts: 395	No need to use filter or tripod, just increase the shutter speed to around 1/10 and don't forget to stop down (Increase the aperture number) since the slower shutter speed will increase the amount of light hitting the sensor thus overexposing. Taken with my K-x handheld in M mode.

09-04-2011, 03:33 AM	#29
cats_five Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Fife, Scotland Posts: 835	1/10 is about the starting point for blurry water shots IMHO, and if you are having to stop down to f22 to get that sort of shutter speed without overexposing the image you need ND filters - the image quality from nearly all lenses (all I know of) is dropping off at that sort of f-stop. And even at 1/10 if you don't use a tripod or some method of helping steady the camera you will almost certainly find the image will have camera shake.

09-04-2011, 12:18 PM	#30
JimC1101 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Fremont, Ca Photos: Albums Posts: 395	The one I posted above was with the 18-55 kit, 1/10 @ F22 handheld using a hood. I think it looks pretty clean to me in regard to camera shake and edge to edge sharpnes at that high of an aperture with the kit lens but comments are most certainly welcome. Here is one I took with my wife at 1/10 but I opened up a little bit to F14 since the scene was not as dark. I agree, 1/10 is right at the start pont of bluring water. I could have gone a little slower but I got the effect I was looking for . Goes to show that the SR really does make a difference.