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11-28-2011, 11:05 PM   #46
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This has been a good read for me. I have always wondered why my pictures dont pop. Now I know why.
Question though. Does changing the saturation and contrast only affect jpeg and not RAW? Atleast that is the impression that I am getting.

I guess like the OP I dont want to spend to much time on processing. So get more out of the camera in the beginning is very important to me. I am not shooting jpeg anymore but its had to find the time to process the RAW files especially when you dont know what should actually be the right look post processing.

11-29-2011, 01:07 AM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by Culture Quote
This has been a good read for me. I have always wondered why my pictures dont pop. Now I know why.
Question though. Does changing the saturation and contrast only affect jpeg and not RAW? Atleast that is the impression that I am getting.
That's the case, yes. But you should know that even you shoot RAW, every change made in camera settings will display those changes on camera LCD, just for preview, but you will have to adjust those settings againg during PP.

QuoteQuote:
I guess like the OP I dont want to spend to much time on processing. So get more out of the camera in the beginning is very important to me. I am not shooting jpeg anymore but its had to find the time to process the RAW files especially when you dont know what should actually be the right look post processing.
Well, shooting JPEG is not an error, so just keep trying until you're happy. Allways mind the light and shadows, and you'll get to it eventually.
11-29-2011, 06:32 AM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by brvnara Quote
That's the case, yes. But you should know that even you shoot RAW, every change made in camera settings will display those changes on camera LCD, just for preview, but you will have to adjust those settings againg during PP.
Wrong, actually it depends on how you import to your software. I use LR 3.whatever and I import having it maintain settings. I shoot raw (sometimes raw+) since i will shoot quite frequently using the b/w ir filter when shooting I don't want the change (i prefer the Pentax ir filtering to trying the LR emulation - the Pentax just seems to come closest to the real thing. Most of the time I just need to export to the web where w script adds copyright and re-sizes. no other pp. No reason if you are happy with the result from other settings it couldn't work the same. I shoot it as raw to give me the option to try the same shot in colour
Other software may not do this but LR gives you the option (in the import dialog area

This won't correct for improper exposure, and carrying a grey card is a very good way of ensuring you get the exposure (you can also carry various WB cards to set custom WB, Warmcards makes a very nice set for the movie industry that also works quite well for DLSR
11-29-2011, 07:00 AM   #49
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I use Pentax DCU4 for raw conversion, and it does import the camera settings. DCU4 uses Image Tone menus, just like Pentax cameras, with some significant additions for final processing. It's very simple to transition from jpeg adjustments in the camera to raw processing in the software.

12-27-2012, 01:29 PM   #50
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A year on!

I can't believe it's been over a year since I first got my k-x and posted here. Over that year I had learned to hate my k-x with a passion! I got off the 'green' settings straight away as you guys suggested and fiddled with all the other settings but never lost the grey veil over my photo's, the muted dull tones or the gastly colour renditions etc. I thought I'd tried everything, and to be honest for the first time in 30 odd years I lost interest in photographing anything unless it was essential. A very sad state of affairs especially as I got this camera to expand my horizons not to diminish them! I've never been this frustrated with a camera in my life.

However just before Christmas, knowing I'd be wanting to take pics of family over the hols, I gave it another try. I decided having tried everything else I would switch to manual. I had a manual camera as a child and was offered a position at a local newspaper as trainee photographer on the strength of pictures taken on it! (Didn't take up the opportunity obviously!) So I thought I might have an outside a chance at getting better pics this way even if I was rubbish at it!
OMG I only wish I had tried this a year ago! All the horrid dumbed down images have gone!!!!!!! Now I can actually start learning how to use my camera!
OK, my images are still pretty rubbish, but that should change now as I relearn to use the camera in manual mode! Has anyone else come across this? I really wanted to post about this revelation in case anyone else is stuggling to get the pictures they want too. It might just help

OMG I'm so happy, it's like I got a new camera for xmas!!!!!!!!!! LOL!!!!!!!!
12-29-2012, 08:48 PM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by xfloggingkylex Quote
The idea that pentax can only be shot in RAW for quality pictures is silly. As others have mentioned, simply upping the saturation and sharpness will make a huge difference.

RAW certainly has huge advantages, but to say anyone not using raw should use a glorified P&S is flat out ignorant.

As for suggestions:

Get off auto. You bought an SLR (I'd assume) for more control over your pictures. With that in mind, get on aperture or shutter priority and start messing with the exposure compensation. Also, use that LCD to your advantage. Take a picture, if it looks dark bump the exposure compensation up some. Also a lot of that can be fixed in post processing, and you will have to learn the basics of it.

Good luck with future shots.
Agreed!
12-30-2012, 02:42 AM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ponosby Britt Quote
The Sunny 16 Rule as an anchor point for exposure will get the job done. Film or Digital, the exposure triangle is just the same. Almost 4 years since I've shot anything but manual. Have two well worn K-5s and have no idea if the meters work, never use them. I do use an incident light meter occasionally and a flash meter on studio setups but mostly rely on the histogram and experience.
I wont be shooting in anything other than manual too from now on! The difference when I took control was immediate. Images are 100% better already, compared with using the priority settings and relying on the camera.
12-30-2012, 05:32 PM   #53
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2cay2--I shot in auto for a long time until I got brave and switched over to manual. I haven't looked back.

Have fun!

12-30-2012, 06:39 PM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by 2cay2 Quote
I wont be shooting in anything other than manual too from now on! The difference when I took control was immediate. Images are 100% better already, compared with using the priority settings and relying on the camera.
It's great if it's working for you but it is not because you shoot manual. There is no difference in exposure if the meter says f8 at 1/250 and you put it there, or the camera does. There has to be something else involved.
12-30-2012, 09:02 PM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ponosby Britt Quote
The difference is, I set exposure values based on the amount of incident light measured by an external meter. Camera meters measure reflected light. Detailed explanation here Meter Lies

Reflected light is an unreliable measure of how much light is falling on an object. An incident light meter measures the light falling on the subject. I get an exposure value, use the Sunny 16 Rule (EV15) as an anchor point to adjust and enter that into the camera. Very different from the values of the camera meter.
I will beg to disagree you. There are pros and cons of using incident or reflected light meter readings, to say one is unreliable or not is highly dependent on the situation.

All inbuilt camera meters measure subject reflectance. In an average scene with equal proportion of light and dark tones, whether one uses an incident light or reflected light meter, the exposure value is going to be the same. When the proportion of light or dark tones vary, the camera's meter will suggest an appropriate exposure based on an set standard.

If one merely allows the camera to set exposure in an Auto mode, you will definitely get varying exposure because the camera has no way of knowing whether the subject is correctly exposed or not. IT IS UP TO THE PHOTOGRAPHER TO DETERMINE THIS. That's why all cameras have an exposure compensation (+/-) to allow the photographer to override the camera's suggested exposure. It makes little difference whether one shoots in Manual or any of the Auto exposure modes.
12-31-2012, 11:01 AM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ponosby Britt Quote
It makes a lot of difference. Why complicate things, having to monitor and modify the camera recommendations when I can just set the exposure to the actual amount of light falling on an object. Why try to keep track of the various reflective qualities of things? Knowing the incident light value, how much light is falling on a subject eliminates the need to compensate. Its exactly what my flash meter tells me, how much light is falling on the subject. Its why I carry a little Digisix ambient meter, left on ISO 100 and incident. It gives me a EV value and I know how many stops I need to expose for using Sunny 16 ( EV 15) as a reference. Most of the time, I can guesstimate within a stop or two without the meter and adjust with the Histogram. Bright Sunny Day, EV15. Hazy sunny day, EV14. Shade EV 12 or 13 . Full Moon EV14. Most stage performances, EV 7 or 8.

I have found it best to simply set a manual exposure value for the measured incident light in a scene. Photographing ballet dance performance, which I do a lot, there is no time to dial in EV compensation for a white costume vs a black or dark red or bright blue costume. Eliminating the variable reflective properties of scene elements eliminates the need to compensate. Knowing the stage is lit to a measured EV value tells me the exposure settings. I simply vary a stop up or down to compensate for brighter or dimmer scenes. I trade off ISO and Aperture for Shutter speed to capture motion. Before photographing performances, I know I'll be shooting mostly at 1/320 sec, and f 2.8 and ISO 1600 or f4 and ISO 3200, depending on the lens. The meter is irrelevant. Knowing the lighting cues is everything.
Spot metering is what you will need in this case.... you can use TAv mode or M mode in this case... but I prefer M mode when the lighting condition remains constant.
01-01-2013, 06:40 AM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by SpecialK Quote
It's great if it's working for you but it is not because you shoot manual. There is no difference in exposure if the meter says f8 at 1/250 and you put it there, or the camera does. There has to be something else involved.
I just tried a couple of experimental shots keeping the exposure the same for both the auto setting and manual. I changed nothing else. The 1st one is on auto green button and has the dull veil over it that has been my problem all along. No matter what I have done it has never been right, even moving onto priority settings and fiddling with everything that has been suggested and I could find to fiddle with! Changimg one thing just changed something else, nothing ever came out natural. Using exposure compensation never really worked either, just made the dullness lighter or darker.

For the 2nd photo all I did was change to manual and set the exposure to the same that the auto setting chose.

Appologies for the quality, I know they are both rubbish lol, but just showing the difference even though exposure is the same!

Would be interested to see what you guys think.
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01-01-2013, 08:42 AM   #58
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Regardless of what may have been seen as the same settings, the exposure on these is very different. Or, some processing setting is in effect on one or the other causing a change in white point.
01-01-2013, 08:52 AM   #59
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YOu could post one of those in the "Rust Never Sleeps" thread. They would fit right in.
01-01-2013, 09:22 AM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by 2cay2 Quote
I just tried a couple of experimental shots keeping the exposure the same for both the auto setting and manual. I changed nothing else. The 1st one is on auto green button and has the dull veil over it that has been my problem all along. No matter what I have done it has never been right, even moving onto priority settings and fiddling with everything that has been suggested and I could find to fiddle with! Changimg one thing just changed something else, nothing ever came out natural. Using exposure compensation never really worked either, just made the dullness lighter or darker.

For the 2nd photo all I did was change to manual and set the exposure to the same that the auto setting chose.

Appologies for the quality, I know they are both rubbish lol, but just showing the difference even though exposure is the same!

Would be interested to see what you guys think.
It's the white balance. The first one the white balance is set to auto and the second the white balance is set to manual. I've learned not to use auto white balance because it is so hit and skip. I set it to the appropriate setting for what I'm shooting. I really need to get a gray card.
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