Is it me or my camera? :(

Alizarine · 11-17-2011, 08:08 PM

I have a K-x too and yes they're right its default settings are pretty conservative in terms of pumping sat/con/hue. Before I bought the K-x I've been eyeing the D5000 and D90 for a long time but gave the latter choices up when I got my first hands-on tweaking of Pentax jpeg output settings. I guess Pentax makes it that way so you can dig more detail with the shot than blow some stuff out like highlights and some colors...

xfloggingkylex · 11-17-2011, 08:24 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by causey

Apologies if my suggestion to the OP offended you.

You seem to make an assumption similar to mine. Shooting raw offers (even) more control. (After all, most (advanced) point and shoots offer manual controls.) Certainly, there are pros and very talented amateurs who shoot jpg. They possess the mastery that allows them to take advantage of their dslr's capabilities while shooting jpg. Someone buys a dslr, I suppose, to get a certain IQ out of his or her camera. Sure, that IQ is not dependent on raw, but shooting jpg to get dslr-like IQ is more demanding IMO. Raw offers more flexibility and room for fixing a picture. That's why I use it. I'm not that masterly.

In the end, I think, it's a matter of weighing "dslr" IQ vs "point and shoot" simplicity. If someone finds it hard to mess with manual functions and with raw, then maybe a good point and shoot is a better option for him. It's a possibility. I know many who have come to this conclusion after agonizing over the *complexity* of using a dslr. And I know many more who lug around a heavy dslr, which they use in P or Auto to take pictures that look much worse than those taken by their wives with light, neat point and shoots.

I think I've misinterpreted how your post was to be intended. While I agree raw gives you the most control, the last thing I want is new photgraphers to think they need it to do well. My apologies for a harsh response. I believe we share the same opinions.

2cay2 · 11-18-2011, 08:39 AM

Originally posted by atupdate

Pentax's software will try to set the white wall in the background as neutral gray. This is done to prevent blowing out the highlights.

This is exactly what I don't like! Does anyone know if this is a specific default setting I can change?

I have found that changing the High/Low Key Adj (I think this may be what I change for above problem?) makes a huge difference, but I can't change this for the auto setting. In fact I don't seem to be able to change any of the settings (contrast, saturation etc) for auto

I just wanted to add that I got a DSLR because I do want to learn and do more using manual. I mainly want to photograph birds and use it for timelapse. For these things I'm happy to spend hours (I'll need it!) setting up and fiddling and learning and improving to get what I want. So I really don't intend to always use auto. But I also use this camera for ebay listings and quick snaps when my pets or family are doing things I want to capture. I'm more interested in speed of use and ok pics for this, hense the auto use. I just don't feel I can move on to the more interesting and creative stuff when i can't get to grips with auto!!! I am learning all the time though and your comments are hugely helpful for my present incapabilities

and for what I am progressing too.

The light is rubbish this afternoon but I'll be going through all the advice given here in detail and fiddling anyway

2cay2 · 11-18-2011, 09:56 AM

Originally posted by eddie1960

And to go hand in hand with that since you seem to have limited experience you really should do some reading on Exposure

best beginner book for this IMO is
Amazon.com: Understanding Exposure: How to Shoot Great Photographs with a Film or Digital Camera (Updated Edition) (9780817463007): Bryan Peterson: Books

that will go a long way towards helping you achieve your goal

Just ordered it, thanks for the suggestion

I've run out of daylight but feel i've been getting somewhere now! I've changed to Shutter priority instead of Auto pict which means I can adjust the contrast, saturation etc settings, and bumped the exposure compensation 1 stop. Much happier with the results so far. I'll try it all out again tomorrow when the light is back, but think I'm on the right track now. Thanks everyone

I want to stick with jpegs for my 'snaps'. However
I think it might be time to get the photoshop book out! I've got the software but no idea how to use it. Can't use RAW on the software I normaly use. And it looks like that's the direction I'll need to go for the proper photo's I eventually want to take

Last edited by 2cay2; 11-18-2011 at 10:03 AM.

causey · 11-18-2011, 01:50 PM

Originally posted by 2cay2

Just ordered it, thanks for the suggestion

I've run out of daylight but feel i've been getting somewhere now! I've changed to Shutter priority instead of Auto pict which means I can adjust the contrast, saturation etc settings, and bumped the exposure compensation 1 stop. Much happier with the results so far. I'll try it all out again tomorrow when the light is back, but think I'm on the right track now. Thanks everyone

I want to stick with jpegs for my 'snaps'. However
I think it might be time to get the photoshop book out! I've got the software but no idea how to use it. Can't use RAW on the software I normaly use. And it looks like that's the direction I'll need to go for the proper photo's I eventually want to take

Shutter Priority is suitable for action shots, when the need to control the shutter speed prevails over other requirements. For every day shots, Aperture Priority is usually better--you want to keep ISO as low as possible to minimize the amount of noise in your pics.
There's free software for developing RAW--for instance, the one that came with your camera. Also, Raw Therapee.
If you shoot raw, it's better to compensate negatively (-0.7 or -1) to preserve highlights, since K-x's very good ISO performance allows you to brighten pictures in post-processing. (Unless your K-x tends to underexpose... Mine tends to clip highlights in 75% of situations.)
You might also want to check out this PF section: Photography Articles - PentaxForums.com

rtpguy · 11-18-2011, 02:10 PM

Originally posted by 2cay2

Just ordered it, thanks for the suggestion

I've run out of daylight but feel i've been getting somewhere now! I've changed to Shutter priority instead of Auto pict which means I can adjust the contrast, saturation etc settings, and bumped the exposure compensation 1 stop. Much happier with the results so far. I'll try it all out again tomorrow when the light is back, but think I'm on the right track now. Thanks everyone

I want to stick with jpegs for my 'snaps'. However
I think it might be time to get the photoshop book out! I've got the software but no idea how to use it. Can't use RAW on the software I normaly use. And it looks like that's the direction I'll need to go for the proper photo's I eventually want to take

Bear in mind that I believe even Picassa (free) can read the DNG/raw files and convert them to jpeg if you want a quick solution, and it's also very easy to do in Lightroom, or the Pentax software. Unless you literally take all pictures out of the camera and post them uncropped/untouched (even for ebay shots, I always find myself cropping jpegs), it's not really additional work, a few button clicks only.

When I bought my K5, I was shooting RAW+JPG for a while, but dropped it almost immediately to shoot only RAW, as it's that easy; my wife did the same.

dragonfly · 11-18-2011, 02:26 PM

The OP's photos are sharp and in-focus. I think he needs to pay more attention to the metering function of his camera.

zekewhipper · 11-20-2011, 07:46 PM

You don't need to shoot RAW to get good or even great pictures. That's rubbish. You just need to take the camera off Auto, and learn to take control of the exposure process.

Philoslothical · 11-21-2011, 12:40 PM

Originally posted by zekewhipper

You don't need to shoot RAW to get good or even great pictures. That's rubbish. You just need to take the camera off Auto, and learn to take control of the exposure process.

Truth. But, as others have said, shooting raw will let you recover a lot more usable images during that learning process.

**Canada_Rockies** · 11-21-2011, 03:13 PM

Originally posted by 2cay2

This is exactly what I don't like! Does anyone know if this is a specific default setting I can change?

I have found that changing the High/Low Key Adj (I think this may be what I change for above problem?) makes a huge difference, but I can't change this for the auto setting. In fact I don't seem to be able to change any of the settings (contrast, saturation etc) for auto

If, by Auto setting you mean the green square on the mode dial, that is true. A lot of the settings are turned off for the green mode. Move your mode dial one slot over to P and see if things clear up for you.

humbr · 11-21-2011, 03:54 PM

2cay2: this is not specific to Pentax, all cameras do this. And Auto is what it says, auto. Best guess, not necessarily what you are looking for.
I use P or TAV on my K5.

You will need to do some reading and learning: This thread is a start: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-beginners-corner-q/165640-using-gray-card.html

I would highly recommend getting the book listed earlier, perhaps your local library has one?

aleonx3 · 11-21-2011, 05:05 PM

The OP brought up a comment we hear mostly from beginners as the criteria for 'good' camera is that one can produce 'vivid' pictures automatically. When I first bought my k100d which was my first DSLR, the first thing that strikes me was the 'vivid' color in the default jpeg mode. I quickly learned not to judge picture by just 'vividness', in fact, I soon changed the default to 'natural' setting for jpeg setting as I rather want to capture the true 'moment' as I see it. This jpeg setting 'vivid' or 'natural' applies to all shooting modes, whether you shoot in P, Av, Sv or Tv mode (sorry, no TAv mode in k100d) and M mode. Another thing to understand is that the lens also play a role in the outcome as well. Such as, I learn that different lens brand produces different color tone/shade as the lens coating are different. I prefer Pentax lens (even the older MF lenses, M, K or A lens) with SMC coating as it tends to provide a warm tone than lens from other brands such as Vivitar, Chinon, Ricoh, Sigma or Tamron. It is part of the learning process which is to understand the equipment well and knowing what to make the best of it to your own liking.

2cay2 · 11-22-2011, 02:36 AM

Thanks for the continuing replies

I'm slowly learning, trying things out, fiddling and learning a little more. It seems when I change one thing something else changes too. I'm grainy pics at the mo.... I'll keep fiddling!

The recommended book has arrived so I am looking forward to going through that

Originally posted by aleonx3

The OP brought up a comment we hear mostly from beginners as the criteria for 'good' camera is that one can produce 'vivid' pictures automatically. When I first bought my k100d which was my first DSLR, the first thing that strikes me was the 'vivid' color in the default jpeg mode. I quickly learned not to judge picture by just 'vividness', in fact, I soon changed the default to 'natural' setting for jpeg setting as I rather want to capture the true 'moment' as I see it. This jpeg setting 'vivid' or 'natural' applies to all shooting modes, whether you shoot in P, Av, Sv or Tv mode (sorry, no TAv mode in k100d) and M mode. Another thing to understand is that the lens also play a role in the outcome as well. Such as, I learn that different lens brand produces different color tone/shade as the lens coating are different. I prefer Pentax lens (even the older MF lenses, M, K or A lens) with SMC coating as it tends to provide a warm tone than lens from other brands such as Vivitar, Chinon, Ricoh, Sigma or Tamron. It is part of the learning process which is to understand the equipment well and knowing what to make the best of it to your own liking.

I really just want my pics to look true to life. The opening pics were taken on a beautiful bright sunny day, hopefully you can see this from the strong shadows, yet the pics didn't reflect this (looking dull). However the video setting did.
I think in trying to correct this I am over compensating at the moment and doing exactly what you said - trying to make the images to vivid - but that's not my aim. I just want them to show what I see.
It's a big learning curve but hopefully I'll get there in the end!

Tippon · 11-24-2011, 06:52 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by 2cay2

It's a big learning curve but hopefully I'll get there in the end!

You will

I've been lucky, in that a friend of mine is a pro, and loves to help. It's surprising how much of a difference a few pointers can make.

P.S. Me and my wife are struggling with our K-x's down in South Wales, so you're not alone!

2cay2 · 11-25-2011, 01:54 AM

Originally posted by Tippon

You will

I've been lucky, in that a friend of mine is a pro, and loves to help. It's surprising how much of a difference a few pointers can make.

P.S. Me and my wife are struggling with our K-x's down in South Wales, so you're not alone!

Does he ever come to North Wales by any chance?!

Thanks for letting me know I'm not on my own struggling with the K-x!

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11-17-2011, 08:08 PM	#16
Alizarine Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Manila Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,185	I have a K-x too and yes they're right its default settings are pretty conservative in terms of pumping sat/con/hue. Before I bought the K-x I've been eyeing the D5000 and D90 for a long time but gave the latter choices up when I got my first hands-on tweaking of Pentax jpeg output settings. I guess Pentax makes it that way so you can dig more detail with the shot than blow some stuff out like highlights and some colors...

11-17-2011, 08:24 PM - 1 Like	#17
xfloggingkylex Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Frederick, MD USA Posts: 111	Originally posted by causey Apologies if my suggestion to the OP offended you. You seem to make an assumption similar to mine. Shooting raw offers (even) more control. (After all, most (advanced) point and shoots offer manual controls.) Certainly, there are pros and very talented amateurs who shoot jpg. They possess the mastery that allows them to take advantage of their dslr's capabilities while shooting jpg. Someone buys a dslr, I suppose, to get a certain IQ out of his or her camera. Sure, that IQ is not dependent on raw, but shooting jpg to get dslr-like IQ is more demanding IMO. Raw offers more flexibility and room for fixing a picture. That's why I use it. I'm not that masterly. In the end, I think, it's a matter of weighing "dslr" IQ vs "point and shoot" simplicity. If someone finds it hard to mess with manual functions and with raw, then maybe a good point and shoot is a better option for him. It's a possibility. I know many who have come to this conclusion after agonizing over the complexity of using a dslr. And I know many more who lug around a heavy dslr, which they use in P or Auto to take pictures that look much worse than those taken by their wives with light, neat point and shoots. I think I've misinterpreted how your post was to be intended. While I agree raw gives you the most control, the last thing I want is new photgraphers to think they need it to do well. My apologies for a harsh response. I believe we share the same opinions.

11-18-2011, 08:39 AM	#18
2cay2 Inactive Account Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: North East Wales Posts: 30 Original Poster	Originally posted by atupdate Pentax's software will try to set the white wall in the background as neutral gray. This is done to prevent blowing out the highlights. This is exactly what I don't like! Does anyone know if this is a specific default setting I can change? I have found that changing the High/Low Key Adj (I think this may be what I change for above problem?) makes a huge difference, but I can't change this for the auto setting. In fact I don't seem to be able to change any of the settings (contrast, saturation etc) for auto I just wanted to add that I got a DSLR because I do want to learn and do more using manual. I mainly want to photograph birds and use it for timelapse. For these things I'm happy to spend hours (I'll need it!) setting up and fiddling and learning and improving to get what I want. So I really don't intend to always use auto. But I also use this camera for ebay listings and quick snaps when my pets or family are doing things I want to capture. I'm more interested in speed of use and ok pics for this, hense the auto use. I just don't feel I can move on to the more interesting and creative stuff when i can't get to grips with auto!!! I am learning all the time though and your comments are hugely helpful for my present incapabilities and for what I am progressing too. The light is rubbish this afternoon but I'll be going through all the advice given here in detail and fiddling anyway

11-18-2011, 09:56 AM	#19
2cay2 Inactive Account Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: North East Wales Posts: 30 Original Poster	Originally posted by eddie1960 And to go hand in hand with that since you seem to have limited experience you really should do some reading on Exposure best beginner book for this IMO is Amazon.com: Understanding Exposure: How to Shoot Great Photographs with a Film or Digital Camera (Updated Edition) (9780817463007): Bryan Peterson: Books that will go a long way towards helping you achieve your goal Just ordered it, thanks for the suggestion I've run out of daylight but feel i've been getting somewhere now! I've changed to Shutter priority instead of Auto pict which means I can adjust the contrast, saturation etc settings, and bumped the exposure compensation 1 stop. Much happier with the results so far. I'll try it all out again tomorrow when the light is back, but think I'm on the right track now. Thanks everyone I want to stick with jpegs for my 'snaps'. However I think it might be time to get the photoshop book out! I've got the software but no idea how to use it. Can't use RAW on the software I normaly use. And it looks like that's the direction I'll need to go for the proper photo's I eventually want to take Last edited by 2cay2; 11-18-2011 at 10:03 AM.

11-18-2011, 01:50 PM	#20
causey Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Arlington, VA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,757	Originally posted by 2cay2 Just ordered it, thanks for the suggestion I've run out of daylight but feel i've been getting somewhere now! I've changed to Shutter priority instead of Auto pict which means I can adjust the contrast, saturation etc settings, and bumped the exposure compensation 1 stop. Much happier with the results so far. I'll try it all out again tomorrow when the light is back, but think I'm on the right track now. Thanks everyone I want to stick with jpegs for my 'snaps'. However I think it might be time to get the photoshop book out! I've got the software but no idea how to use it. Can't use RAW on the software I normaly use. And it looks like that's the direction I'll need to go for the proper photo's I eventually want to take Shutter Priority is suitable for action shots, when the need to control the shutter speed prevails over other requirements. For every day shots, Aperture Priority is usually better--you want to keep ISO as low as possible to minimize the amount of noise in your pics. There's free software for developing RAW--for instance, the one that came with your camera. Also, Raw Therapee. If you shoot raw, it's better to compensate negatively (-0.7 or -1) to preserve highlights, since K-x's very good ISO performance allows you to brighten pictures in post-processing. (Unless your K-x tends to underexpose... Mine tends to clip highlights in 75% of situations.) You might also want to check out this PF section: Photography Articles - PentaxForums.com

11-18-2011, 02:10 PM	#21
rtpguy Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: NC Posts: 206	Originally posted by 2cay2 Just ordered it, thanks for the suggestion I've run out of daylight but feel i've been getting somewhere now! I've changed to Shutter priority instead of Auto pict which means I can adjust the contrast, saturation etc settings, and bumped the exposure compensation 1 stop. Much happier with the results so far. I'll try it all out again tomorrow when the light is back, but think I'm on the right track now. Thanks everyone I want to stick with jpegs for my 'snaps'. However I think it might be time to get the photoshop book out! I've got the software but no idea how to use it. Can't use RAW on the software I normaly use. And it looks like that's the direction I'll need to go for the proper photo's I eventually want to take Bear in mind that I believe even Picassa (free) can read the DNG/raw files and convert them to jpeg if you want a quick solution, and it's also very easy to do in Lightroom, or the Pentax software. Unless you literally take all pictures out of the camera and post them uncropped/untouched (even for ebay shots, I always find myself cropping jpegs), it's not really additional work, a few button clicks only. When I bought my K5, I was shooting RAW+JPG for a while, but dropped it almost immediately to shoot only RAW, as it's that easy; my wife did the same.

11-18-2011, 02:26 PM	#22
dragonfly Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: on the wall Photos: Gallery Posts: 715	The OP's photos are sharp and in-focus. I think he needs to pay more attention to the metering function of his camera.

11-20-2011, 07:46 PM	#23
zekewhipper Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Photos: Albums Posts: 307	You don't need to shoot RAW to get good or even great pictures. That's rubbish. You just need to take the camera off Auto, and learn to take control of the exposure process.

11-21-2011, 12:40 PM	#24
Philoslothical Veteran Member Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 1,889	Originally posted by zekewhipper You don't need to shoot RAW to get good or even great pictures. That's rubbish. You just need to take the camera off Auto, and learn to take control of the exposure process. Truth. But, as others have said, shooting raw will let you recover a lot more usable images during that learning process.

11-21-2011, 03:13 PM	#25
Canada_Rockies Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Sparwood, BC, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,385	Originally posted by 2cay2 This is exactly what I don't like! Does anyone know if this is a specific default setting I can change? I have found that changing the High/Low Key Adj (I think this may be what I change for above problem?) makes a huge difference, but I can't change this for the auto setting. In fact I don't seem to be able to change any of the settings (contrast, saturation etc) for auto If, by Auto setting you mean the green square on the mode dial, that is true. A lot of the settings are turned off for the green mode. Move your mode dial one slot over to P and see if things clear up for you.

11-21-2011, 03:54 PM	#26
humbr Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: St Catharines Posts: 62	2cay2: this is not specific to Pentax, all cameras do this. And Auto is what it says, auto. Best guess, not necessarily what you are looking for. I use P or TAV on my K5. You will need to do some reading and learning: This thread is a start: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-beginners-corner-q/165640-using-gray-card.html I would highly recommend getting the book listed earlier, perhaps your local library has one?

11-21-2011, 05:05 PM	#27
aleonx3 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Brampton, Ontario Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,996	The OP brought up a comment we hear mostly from beginners as the criteria for 'good' camera is that one can produce 'vivid' pictures automatically. When I first bought my k100d which was my first DSLR, the first thing that strikes me was the 'vivid' color in the default jpeg mode. I quickly learned not to judge picture by just 'vividness', in fact, I soon changed the default to 'natural' setting for jpeg setting as I rather want to capture the true 'moment' as I see it. This jpeg setting 'vivid' or 'natural' applies to all shooting modes, whether you shoot in P, Av, Sv or Tv mode (sorry, no TAv mode in k100d) and M mode. Another thing to understand is that the lens also play a role in the outcome as well. Such as, I learn that different lens brand produces different color tone/shade as the lens coating are different. I prefer Pentax lens (even the older MF lenses, M, K or A lens) with SMC coating as it tends to provide a warm tone than lens from other brands such as Vivitar, Chinon, Ricoh, Sigma or Tamron. It is part of the learning process which is to understand the equipment well and knowing what to make the best of it to your own liking.

11-22-2011, 02:36 AM	#28
2cay2 Inactive Account Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: North East Wales Posts: 30 Original Poster	Thanks for the continuing replies I'm slowly learning, trying things out, fiddling and learning a little more. It seems when I change one thing something else changes too. I'm grainy pics at the mo.... I'll keep fiddling! The recommended book has arrived so I am looking forward to going through that Originally posted by aleonx3 The OP brought up a comment we hear mostly from beginners as the criteria for 'good' camera is that one can produce 'vivid' pictures automatically. When I first bought my k100d which was my first DSLR, the first thing that strikes me was the 'vivid' color in the default jpeg mode. I quickly learned not to judge picture by just 'vividness', in fact, I soon changed the default to 'natural' setting for jpeg setting as I rather want to capture the true 'moment' as I see it. This jpeg setting 'vivid' or 'natural' applies to all shooting modes, whether you shoot in P, Av, Sv or Tv mode (sorry, no TAv mode in k100d) and M mode. Another thing to understand is that the lens also play a role in the outcome as well. Such as, I learn that different lens brand produces different color tone/shade as the lens coating are different. I prefer Pentax lens (even the older MF lenses, M, K or A lens) with SMC coating as it tends to provide a warm tone than lens from other brands such as Vivitar, Chinon, Ricoh, Sigma or Tamron. It is part of the learning process which is to understand the equipment well and knowing what to make the best of it to your own liking. I really just want my pics to look true to life. The opening pics were taken on a beautiful bright sunny day, hopefully you can see this from the strong shadows, yet the pics didn't reflect this (looking dull). However the video setting did. I think in trying to correct this I am over compensating at the moment and doing exactly what you said - trying to make the images to vivid - but that's not my aim. I just want them to show what I see. It's a big learning curve but hopefully I'll get there in the end!

11-24-2011, 06:52 PM - 1 Like	#29
Tippon Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Photos: Gallery Posts: 92	Originally posted by 2cay2 It's a big learning curve but hopefully I'll get there in the end! You will I've been lucky, in that a friend of mine is a pro, and loves to help. It's surprising how much of a difference a few pointers can make. P.S. Me and my wife are struggling with our K-x's down in South Wales, so you're not alone!

11-25-2011, 01:54 AM	#30
2cay2 Inactive Account Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: North East Wales Posts: 30 Original Poster	Originally posted by Tippon You will I've been lucky, in that a friend of mine is a pro, and loves to help. It's surprising how much of a difference a few pointers can make. P.S. Me and my wife are struggling with our K-x's down in South Wales, so you're not alone! Does he ever come to North Wales by any chance?! Thanks for letting me know I'm not on my own struggling with the K-x!