K5 - too much noise?

rreader · 12-03-2011, 02:20 AM

I'm new to pentax and was taking some shots last weekend and I've noticed a fair bit of noise in some shots.

One of the reasons why I bought the camera was because I thought it had very good noise levels.

I'll put a link to a raw file. Can anyone have a look and tell me what they think? I'm also used to using capture one as my raw editor and only have adobe camera raw at the moment, so that might have an impact.

http://www.bderooy.com/IMGP0266.DNG

Last edited by rreader; 12-03-2011 at 03:25 AM.

JohnBee · 12-03-2011, 03:15 AM

Link doesn't work for me

rreader · 12-03-2011, 03:26 AM

Sorry I had the wrong filename in the link.

It's updated now.

adpo · 12-03-2011, 03:34 AM

i opened it in photoshop cs5 and i don't see any issues with noise. in fact, the image is pretty much clean unless you go in at beyond 100% and look at the shadow detail area. can you describe the settings you have in capture one or provide a jpeg of what you're seeing?

JohnBee · 12-03-2011, 03:44 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by rreader

Sorry I had the wrong filename in the link.

It's updated now.

Great! that worked.
As for the image, I'd say everything looks good in terms of noise performance, however I think the underexposure is causing the overall eV to get pushed in development.

If I were you, I'd try again with a balanced exposure and how things look from there.

rreader · 12-03-2011, 04:00 AM

Thanks JohnBee. I actually hadn't noticed the under exposure.

I'll have a look through to see if I have any that aren't underexposed and have more noise than I expected.

I'm not sure that the camera is metering properly. I have a 50mm M lens and using the green button the shutter speed doesn't change much as I stop down.

Adpo - I made a few 100% crops which I'll link here just cause. I'm using cs5 myself at the moment because c1 isn't working for me.

http://www.bderooy.com/IMGP0266-1.jpg

http://www.bderooy.com/IMGP0266-2.jpg

aurele · 12-03-2011, 04:24 AM

the picture is underexposed abou 1.5 EV

For the letering it work differently with M/K lenses : only centered spot or average spot metering are available.

Plus the metering is done well when stopping down only in M mod.

If you want the body to set the right setting (speed) when using a M/K lense, press +/- button instead of green one. it will choose a speed that give the right exposure.

For the pciture, except the underexp. i don't see any problem.

Mike Cash · 12-03-2011, 05:37 AM - **1 Like**

You can put me down as another person who has been somewhat disappointed in the noise levels at higher ISOs; I don't find the performance to be anything near what I was led to believe it would be.

causey · 12-03-2011, 06:02 AM

I can't look at the raw file right now, but looking at the two 100% crops, even if I underexposed by 1.5EV, noise wouldn't be as bad with my K-x, and K-5 is supposed to be better.

**Rondec** · 12-03-2011, 06:50 AM

Originally posted by Mike Cash

You can put me down as another person who has been somewhat disappointed in the noise levels at higher ISOs; I don't find the performance to be anything near what I was led to believe it would be.

Really? To me, the high iso capability is amazing compared to other APS-C cameras (maybe not so much the kx/kr). Sure, there is some noise at iso 6400 and above, but you can clean it up fairly easily. I personally wouldn't shoot above 12,800, but there are those who go a stop above for black and white photos. Pretty amazing overall compared to cameras a generation ago like the K7/K20.

To the OP: if you shoot high iso a lot, it is worthwhile to get a noise reduction plug in like Topaz Denoise. It is well worth the price.

Wheatfield · 12-03-2011, 09:30 AM

Originally posted by Rondec

Really? To me, the high iso capability is amazing compared to other APS-C cameras (maybe not so much the kx/kr). Sure, there is some noise at iso 6400 and above, but you can clean it up fairly easily. I personally wouldn't shoot above 12,800, but there are those who go a stop above for black and white photos. Pretty amazing overall compared to cameras a generation ago like the K7/K20.

To the OP: if you shoot high iso a lot, it is worthwhile to get a noise reduction plug in like Topaz Denoise. It is well worth the price.

A lot of people combine high ISO with underexposure. When one does this, there is going to be noise, it's a fact of life. The K5 will give less noise than most other cameras out there in this scenario, but it isn't going to be noise free,

causey · 12-03-2011, 10:40 AM

Originally posted by Wheatfield

A lot of people combine high ISO with underexposure. When one does this, there is going to be noise, it's a fact of life. The K5 will give less noise than most other cameras out there in this scenario, but it isn't going to be noise free,

ISO 400 isn't so high...

I looked at the raw file, and the noise doesn't seem to be a problem... The dog detail is misleading, since it has motion blur. Also, the picture doesn't appear to be well focused. There is less detail than I expected there would be at ISO 400, but it's not clear to me that noise has anything to do with it.

**Rondec** · 12-03-2011, 10:41 AM

Originally posted by Wheatfield

A lot of people combine high ISO with underexposure. When one does this, there is going to be noise, it's a fact of life. The K5 will give less noise than most other cameras out there in this scenario, but it isn't going to be noise free,

Of course, but people have to remember that pushing in post isn't particularly different from pushing in camera. That is to say if you under expose an iso 3200 image in camera and push it two stops afterwards, you might as well have just taken an iso 12,800 image.

The other thing that I see is to be careful sharpening higher iso images. Anything over iso 1600 shouldn't be sharpened very much (if at all) as it will bring out noise that otherwise might be quite unobtrusive.

**interested_observer** · 12-03-2011, 11:50 AM

I took a look at the image and it looked perfectly fine to me. However, I do have one question. What software do you use when you see the noise? If its Picasa, then the software is artificially amplifying the image to actually bring out the noise. This happened to me. I had a bad sensor and board in my K20 and after the warranty repair - replacing the camera's guts, I took a number of test images. I loaded the images in to my PC and clicked on them - Picasa happened to be the default and I saw the noise (to a lesser extent) that I saw before the repair.

reeftool · 12-05-2011, 11:24 PM

Just comparing my limited amount of shots in the first week, I'm really happy with the high ISO results of the K5. Even at 12800, the noise that is there cleans up very well in Lightroom. I suppose everyones expectations are going to be different. I've found that you really have to hit the exposure just right with high ISO shots. This was especially true on the K10D, which on mine anyhow, tended to underexpose everything. The meter on my K5 seems to be leaning towards a slight overexposure in most of my shots and noise hasn't been a problem. My 12800 shots have less noise than my K10D at 800.

12-03-2011, 02:20 AM	#1
rreader New Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 9	K5 - too much noise? I'm new to pentax and was taking some shots last weekend and I've noticed a fair bit of noise in some shots. One of the reasons why I bought the camera was because I thought it had very good noise levels. I'll put a link to a raw file. Can anyone have a look and tell me what they think? I'm also used to using capture one as my raw editor and only have adobe camera raw at the moment, so that might have an impact. http://www.bderooy.com/IMGP0266.DNG Last edited by rreader; 12-03-2011 at 03:25 AM.

12-03-2011, 06:02 AM	#9
causey Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Arlington, VA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,757	I can't look at the raw file right now, but looking at the two 100% crops, even if I underexposed by 1.5EV, noise wouldn't be as bad with my K-x, and K-5 is supposed to be better. Last edited by causey; 12-03-2011 at 06:59 AM.

12-03-2011, 10:40 AM	#12
causey Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Arlington, VA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,757	Originally posted by Wheatfield A lot of people combine high ISO with underexposure. When one does this, there is going to be noise, it's a fact of life. The K5 will give less noise than most other cameras out there in this scenario, but it isn't going to be noise free, ISO 400 isn't so high... I looked at the raw file, and the noise doesn't seem to be a problem... The dog detail is misleading, since it has motion blur. Also, the picture doesn't appear to be well focused. There is less detail than I expected there would be at ISO 400, but it's not clear to me that noise has anything to do with it. Last edited by causey; 12-03-2011 at 03:30 PM.

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12-03-2011, 03:15 AM	#2
JohnBee Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Newrfoundland Photos: Albums Posts: 4,667	Link doesn't work for me

12-03-2011, 03:26 AM	#3
rreader New Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 9 Original Poster	Sorry I had the wrong filename in the link. It's updated now.

12-03-2011, 03:34 AM	#4
adpo Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery Posts: 888	i opened it in photoshop cs5 and i don't see any issues with noise. in fact, the image is pretty much clean unless you go in at beyond 100% and look at the shadow detail area. can you describe the settings you have in capture one or provide a jpeg of what you're seeing?

12-03-2011, 03:44 AM - 1 Like	#5
JohnBee Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Newrfoundland Photos: Albums Posts: 4,667	Originally posted by rreader Sorry I had the wrong filename in the link. It's updated now. Great! that worked. As for the image, I'd say everything looks good in terms of noise performance, however I think the underexposure is causing the overall eV to get pushed in development. If I were you, I'd try again with a balanced exposure and how things look from there.

12-03-2011, 04:00 AM	#6
rreader New Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 9 Original Poster	Thanks JohnBee. I actually hadn't noticed the under exposure. I'll have a look through to see if I have any that aren't underexposed and have more noise than I expected. I'm not sure that the camera is metering properly. I have a 50mm M lens and using the green button the shutter speed doesn't change much as I stop down. Adpo - I made a few 100% crops which I'll link here just cause. I'm using cs5 myself at the moment because c1 isn't working for me. http://www.bderooy.com/IMGP0266-1.jpg http://www.bderooy.com/IMGP0266-2.jpg

12-03-2011, 04:24 AM	#7
aurele Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Paris, France Photos: Albums Posts: 3,217	the picture is underexposed abou 1.5 EV For the letering it work differently with M/K lenses : only centered spot or average spot metering are available. Plus the metering is done well when stopping down only in M mod. If you want the body to set the right setting (speed) when using a M/K lense, press +/- button instead of green one. it will choose a speed that give the right exposure. For the pciture, except the underexp. i don't see any problem.

12-03-2011, 05:37 AM - 1 Like	#8
Mike Cash Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Japan Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,950	You can put me down as another person who has been somewhat disappointed in the noise levels at higher ISOs; I don't find the performance to be anything near what I was led to believe it would be.

12-03-2011, 06:50 AM	#10
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,652	Originally posted by Mike Cash You can put me down as another person who has been somewhat disappointed in the noise levels at higher ISOs; I don't find the performance to be anything near what I was led to believe it would be. Really? To me, the high iso capability is amazing compared to other APS-C cameras (maybe not so much the kx/kr). Sure, there is some noise at iso 6400 and above, but you can clean it up fairly easily. I personally wouldn't shoot above 12,800, but there are those who go a stop above for black and white photos. Pretty amazing overall compared to cameras a generation ago like the K7/K20. To the OP: if you shoot high iso a lot, it is worthwhile to get a noise reduction plug in like Topaz Denoise. It is well worth the price.

12-03-2011, 09:30 AM	#11
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,981	Originally posted by Rondec Really? To me, the high iso capability is amazing compared to other APS-C cameras (maybe not so much the kx/kr). Sure, there is some noise at iso 6400 and above, but you can clean it up fairly easily. I personally wouldn't shoot above 12,800, but there are those who go a stop above for black and white photos. Pretty amazing overall compared to cameras a generation ago like the K7/K20. To the OP: if you shoot high iso a lot, it is worthwhile to get a noise reduction plug in like Topaz Denoise. It is well worth the price. A lot of people combine high ISO with underexposure. When one does this, there is going to be noise, it's a fact of life. The K5 will give less noise than most other cameras out there in this scenario, but it isn't going to be noise free,

12-03-2011, 10:41 AM	#13
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,652	Originally posted by Wheatfield A lot of people combine high ISO with underexposure. When one does this, there is going to be noise, it's a fact of life. The K5 will give less noise than most other cameras out there in this scenario, but it isn't going to be noise free, Of course, but people have to remember that pushing in post isn't particularly different from pushing in camera. That is to say if you under expose an iso 3200 image in camera and push it two stops afterwards, you might as well have just taken an iso 12,800 image. The other thing that I see is to be careful sharpening higher iso images. Anything over iso 1600 shouldn't be sharpened very much (if at all) as it will bring out noise that otherwise might be quite unobtrusive.

12-03-2011, 11:50 AM	#14
interested_observer Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Tumbleweed, Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,707	I took a look at the image and it looked perfectly fine to me. However, I do have one question. What software do you use when you see the noise? If its Picasa, then the software is artificially amplifying the image to actually bring out the noise. This happened to me. I had a bad sensor and board in my K20 and after the warranty repair - replacing the camera's guts, I took a number of test images. I loaded the images in to my PC and clicked on them - Picasa happened to be the default and I saw the noise (to a lesser extent) that I saw before the repair.

12-05-2011, 11:24 PM	#15
reeftool Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Upstate New York Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 9,553	Just comparing my limited amount of shots in the first week, I'm really happy with the high ISO results of the K5. Even at 12800, the noise that is there cleans up very well in Lightroom. I suppose everyones expectations are going to be different. I've found that you really have to hit the exposure just right with high ISO shots. This was especially true on the K10D, which on mine anyhow, tended to underexpose everything. The meter on my K5 seems to be leaning towards a slight overexposure in most of my shots and noise hasn't been a problem. My 12800 shots have less noise than my K10D at 800.