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12-12-2011, 11:19 AM   #1
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tamron 18 AF 18-200mm F/3,5-6,3 XR Di II LD aspherical IF + Pentax KR for beginer

hello All

I'm a real beginner and planning to buy that lens for my trip in Vietnam in next month. I currently have a kit lens DAL 18-55 and wish to have 1 more lens covering the range 17-200 just in case I need a zoom and don't want to often change lens. Will use it to take lanscape, monuments, family portraits and proxy pics etc....

1/ do you think that it is good value lens for a beginer?
2/ can anyone show me some image sample taken with this coule Tamron 18-200 and pentax Kr?

12-12-2011, 11:31 AM   #2
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The 18-200 is a good superzoom lens, but the 18-250 is even better (Tamron or Pentax version, either one). At 18, it should be better than your DAL 18-55 for landscapes, it can take portraits in the 50-90mm range (which your 18-55 can't reach), and you can shoot quite a distance away (wildlife).

I did not see a thread for the Tamron 18-200, but here is one for the Sigma (they both should be quite similar)
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/lens-sample-photo-archive/153333-sigma-18...3-5-6-3-a.html

And here is one for the 18-250
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/lens-sample-photo-archive/165303-tamron-18-250mm.html

Again, the 18-250 is better than the 18-200 in sharpness and reach, so if you can, that's the better bet.
12-12-2011, 11:42 AM - 1 Like   #3
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Yes, the 18-250 is better, but it's also 2-2.5 times as expensive and is only available used. The 18-200 is fine for a beginner and is quite a bargain with the rebate their currently offering. Just shoot it at f/8-f/11 as much as possible and you should be pleased with it. Of course, that exposes perhaps the biggest weakness of the lens. It's just not fast enough to be used indoors. Rather than the 18-250, I would recommend the 18-200 and a 35/2.4. You'll spend the same or less and have better indoor capability. There are also many older prime lenses that could be had for a relative song on the used market in place of that 35. Most will not have AF, though.
12-12-2011, 12:35 PM   #4
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The DA18-250 is my basic lens, especially for travel. (And I have many many lenses.) I haven't tried the Tamron 18-200; I *have* used the 28-200, which was a decent lens but not as good as the 18-250, which by all accounts is indeed better than the 18-200. Whether it's 2.5x better is a good question.

You'll probably be happy with an 18-200. Whether you'll still be happy with it in a year or two is another good question. I chose my first kit (K20D, AF360, DA10-17, DA18-250, FA50/1.4) 3.5 years ago because I thought those would satisfy me for a long time, and they succeed. I dislike the idea of getting a 'starter' item that needs to be 'upgraded' as soon as possible -- I don't have money for that approach.

My recommendation: If you don't mind upgrading, get the 18-200. If you want a keeper, get the 18-250 (used).

12-12-2011, 04:26 PM - 1 Like   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by débutante Quote
hello All

I'm a real beginner and planning to buy that lens for my trip in Vietnam in next month. -----

2/ can anyone show me some image sample taken with this coule Tamron 18-200 and pentax Kr?
This lens was my first investment after I got my first Pentax DSLR. It isn't a very "exciting" lens and autofocus at the wide end and in low light could certainly be better. But it does produce pleasing images most of the time and I still use it as a travelling lens for its versatility.

I cannot show you sample images with a K-r, but perhaps some with my K200D will do?
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12-12-2011, 08:50 PM - 1 Like   #6
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The 18-200 is a decent and convenient walkabout lens. Not stunning, but perfectly usable.

These with the K-x recently:


Nimbin quilt


Gelati girl


Poffertjes
12-12-2011, 09:19 PM   #7
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IIRC, the 18-200s that were around four or so years ago (when I got my K10D) were reported to be a clear step behind the Sigma and Tamron (which I got) 18-250s. New generation of optical design.

Perhaps you can find the older 18-250s at a price that works for you. I'm using a new Sigma but I gave my Tamron to a good friend who cannot afford his DSLR habit. Killed two birds with one stone. He was very happy and remains so.

I also think the K-7 focused faster/better with the stabilized Sigma at 250mm. Perhaps the AF sensors are happiest when the image stays in one place as the phase difference is measured.
12-13-2011, 03:52 AM   #8
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Thanks all for your quick replies. Most of forumers prefer the tamron 18-250 than the 18-200 but it is very hard to find used one. I think I will take the tamron 18-200 + hook as the IQ of the above pics you showed look good for me (are they already pp?). Then will buy a prime lens for portrait later

12-13-2011, 08:15 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by débutante Quote
Thanks all for your quick replies. Most of forumers prefer the tamron 18-250 than the 18-200 but it is very hard to find used one. I think I will take the tamron 18-200 + hook as the IQ of the above pics you showed look good for me (are they already pp?). Then will buy a prime lens for portrait later
No post processing with my pictures. (I actually shot them as "sample images" in which event it should be forbidden to do anything but perhaps levelling the horizon and maybe a bit of cropping, if the goal is to highlight some detail).
12-13-2011, 08:41 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by débutante Quote
are they already pp
Yes. But only basic PP - maybe a slight crop, some sharpening after resize for web, a bump to contrast, or a boost in lighting etc. Nothing hard core.

If you do buy this lens, a few tips, FWIW:

- like most lenses, the 18-200 performs best (ie sharpest, less vignetting, CA etc) stopped down a notch or two, so that is something worth remembering when using it;

- DON'T use a UV filter or anything on the Tamron, or if you do make it a Hoya HMC O, not some crap. Nothing will ruin your images more than a bad UV filter;

- use the supplied lens hood all the time. It really does help improve IQ by cutting out stray light, reducing lens flare, keeping fingerprints off the front lens element etc.

Have fun in VN.
12-14-2011, 12:55 AM   #11
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to rawr: " stopped down a notch or two" what does it mean? otherwisen if lens hood is not delivered with the lens? which size of lens hood do i have to purchase?

to Stone G.; how can I make that back ground blurr effect with this lens?


Sorry for these stupid questions but I've alway been using auto picture mode on point and shoot camera before buying this first DSLR. Now I really want to learn semi manual or manual mode.
12-14-2011, 01:27 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by débutante Quote
to rawr: " stopped down a notch or two" what does it mean? otherwisen if lens hood is not delivered with the lens? which size of lens hood do i have to purchase?

to Stone G.; how can I make that back ground blurr effect with this lens?


Sorry for these stupid questions but I've alway been using auto picture mode on point and shoot camera before buying this first DSLR. Now I really want to learn semi manual or manual mode.
There are no such thing as stupid questions, only possible, stupid answers. Hopefully this answer is not.

Regarding blurr: Generally, if you want to control blurr, you shoot in aperture priority mode (Av) and set the aperture at or near its widest (smaller f-numbers). This dimishes the depth of field (DOF) i.e. the range of distances within which subjects become reasonably sharp.

This is the opposite of making the aperture smaller (stopping down the lens = setting the lens at a higher f-number) to increase depth of field sharpness. Stopping down lenses also often helps if there are minor flaws in the lens design resulting in distortions and colour fringes that may occur when a lens is used at its widest open aperture.

In my specific image examples posted here, the street scene was shot at 200mm at the widest open aperture - f/6.3 - at that focal length (FL). Focus was obviously placed on the fruits and shutter speed was moderate (1/100 s) and helps blurring the moving vehicles. The flower/balcony scene was shot at 90mm FL and moderately stopped down aperture (f/8). Here it is the mere distance to the buildings across the street that causes the blurring.

Hope, this helps a bit - oherwise keep on asking.

PS.: This lens does come with a hood when bought from new.
12-14-2011, 01:56 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by débutante Quote
" stopped down a notch or two" what does it mean?
Wide open, the lens has a maximum aperture of f3.5 at 18mm and f6.3 at 200mm. When I say stopping down a notch or two, I mean setting a smaller aperture than wide-open by one or two f-stops - eg instead of shooting f3.5 at 18mm, setting the aperture to f4 or f5.6, or f8 at 200mm. Stopping down this way isn't always appropriate - eg in dim light it may not make sense - but in good light it will be very practical and help you get the best optical performance out of that lens.

To illustrate why, the chart below shows how the 18-200 performs in terms of resolution ('sharpness') across it's various apertures and focal lengths at the centre of the lens, for the copy of the lens Lenstip.com tested:

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(from the Lenstip.com review of this lens)

As you can see from the chart, for example, at 18mm the lens is sharpest not wide-open at f3.5, but from f4 onwards, from where sharpness improves a lot and then reaches it's maximum at about f8. Ditto for the other focal lengths.

Other factors are also just as important to getting sharp photos, of course, including holding the camera steady and using the right shutter speed for your focal length and subject. You might have the sharpest lens in the world, but if you can't hold it steady, or choose the right shutter speed to freeze movement, then you will get blurry pix.

QuoteQuote:
which size of lens hood do i have to purchase
The lens comes supplied with a hood.
12-14-2011, 02:56 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by débutante Quote
" stopped down a notch or two" what does it mean?
rawr gave good answers about stopping-down. Many lenses are a little soft wide open (at maximum aperture) but sharpen-up nicely when the aperture is closed a stop or two, which is what "stopped down a notch or two" means. So a zoom like the 18-55/3.5-5.6 kit lens, at its longest focal length of 55mm, shows nice sharpness when the aperture is closed down from f/5.6 to f/8 or f/11 or f/16.

Such stopping-down eats light, so you will need to adjust shutter speed and/or ISO to get the right exposure. If you are shooting a moving subject and you want great sharpness, you may need both a tight aperture and a fast shutter, which means boosting the ISO, which means getting some high-ISO noise, and the interactions never end, do they? Or just use a big honking flash!

Stopping-down too far is not good. Lenses have diffraction, where photons bounce off the aperture iris edges, making fuzzier pictures. The tighter the aperture, the fuzzier. We generally try not to stop-down beyond f/11 if the camera is on a tripod, or beyond f/22 handheld, unless the final picture is only going to be displayed very small.

QuoteQuote:
how can I make that back ground blurr effect with this lens?
As Stone G. said, you do just the opposite of stopping-down: you leave the aperture as wide as possible. You can also use a longer focal length, or move the subject further from its background, or pan to follow a moving subject.

Both these question are about what's called depth-of-field or DOF. That's the range of distances from the camera where the picture is acceptably sharp. Here are the simple rules for DOF:
For THINNER DOF: Use a longer focal length, and/or a wider aperture, and/or a closer camera-to-subject distance.

For THICKER DOF: Use a shorter focal length, and/or a tighter aperture, and/or a further camera-to-subject distance.
Once you get used to them, these interactions of aperture, shutter, ISO, distance, focal length, all make sense. You just need a mental model of how the camera works. You'll catch on, don't worry.

QuoteQuote:
Sorry for these stupid questions but I've alway been using auto picture mode on point and shoot camera before buying this first DSLR. Now I really want to learn semi manual or manual mode.
The only stupid questions are the un-asked ones. And the trolls, but we don't get those here!

Our discussions are embedded with jargon, specialized language that describes photographic gear and practices. Think of these forums as an ongoing language seminar, where we learn the photographic lingo. FOV, DOF, VF, FF/BF, FF/135, HF/135, APS-C, APS-H, LF, stop-down, wide-open, CIF, DFS, pan, pano, stitch, HDR, FE, UWA, tele, normal, (p)TTL, RF, TLR, (d)SLR, folder, reach, throw, macro -- all these opaque acronyms and terms comprise a weird foreign language. Once we memorize the vocabulary, whole new worlds open up to us!

And manual shooting is great fun. It was all I had for my first three photographic decades. There's rather a difference between TAKING pictures (snapshooting) and MAKING pictures (photography). To TAKE pictures requires a shutter press. To MAKE pictures requires knowledge, patience, curiosity, craft, many mistakes, and humility. It's one thing to be outsmarted by a highly-engineered camera filled with AI warez. It's quite another to be outsmarted by a camera that's dumber than a fungus. Yes, humility...

Hang around. It'll all soak in. Keep asking questions. We have answers. Some are even rational. Have fun!
12-21-2011, 03:23 PM   #15
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hello all

I've just received the Tamron lens today so I've tried to follow your advices to take some pics with the blur bottom tonight with flash. First pic was taken with Tamron lens and the second with my DAL 18-55mm. Somehow, I think that my kit lens has better IQ in this circumstance. How about your opinions? do you think that I should set my Kr with more saturated colors? Is the exposure correct? No pp applied

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