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12-17-2011, 10:51 PM   #1
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"Like Kind and Quality" K-r + Lenses

So, about a month ago my house was broken into. Me and my fiancee own a K-r, a K-5 and quite a bit of FA glass. We also had some mirrorless cameras with FD and rangefinder lenses plus their adapters... We were hit pretty hard, since most of our gear was packed away in pelican cases for storage and they had an estimated forty-five minutes between break-in and departure; Even the alarm system didn't deter them..

Anwyays, since this is a Pentax forum I'll keep it to the Pentax-related glass and use it as a reference for my other stuff.

Today, I received our "partial" insurance "settlement" and they're saying "Ok, here's your check for $23k, now you need to purchase your stuff all over again, but you need to buy something of like kind and quality." They did say that if the replacement item's cost is greater than the one listed, they MIGHT reimburse me if I submitted a receipt and they approved it. So I need to get something that's "like kind and quality" while within a certain price range. WONDERFUL. That tells me EXACTLY what I need to get, doesn't it? Especially for the lenses and cameras that have been discontinued... and don't even get me started about my ASCOR QC8 and associated flash heads, where am I going to find something of "like kind and quality" to that?

Anyways, I here's what's missing..

From Pentax:
DA Lenses: 10-17mm f3.5-4.5 Fish-Eye, 12-24mm f4, a 35mm f2.8 macro, a 70 f2.4 limited, and a 18-250 f3.5-6.3
FA Lenses: 20mm f2.8, 50mm f1.4, 135mm f2.8, 100-300 f4.5-5.6
A Lenses: 15mm f3.5 fisheye, 50mm f1.2
From Sigma:
14mm f2.8, 30mm f1.4 DC HSM, 85mm f1.4 DG HSM, 150-500mm f5-6.3 DG HSM
If anyone knows what would be considered "like kind and quality", please let me know?
If this is in the wrong forum, please let me know, since there's no "general Pentax" discussion forum.

Thank you to anyone who helps..

12-17-2011, 11:46 PM - 2 Likes   #2
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If I were you I would start with ebay completed listings search. That would give you pricing for those items. Compare that with what they insurance company offered. You might also try KEH.com.

All of the Pentax stuff you list is on ebay on a regular basis and I do not see how they can argue with an auction price.
12-18-2011, 04:26 AM   #3
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A bit off topic but can you post the serial numbers of all your stuff. If someone here stumbles upon one of your items, you might have a chance that you get it back or that the burglars get caught.
12-18-2011, 11:26 AM - 1 Like   #4
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The easy lenses are still available new from major retailers:

DA Lenses: 10-17mm f3.5-4.5 Fish-Eye, 12-24mm f4, a 35mm f2.8 macro, a 70 f2.4 limited
FA Lenses: 50mm f1.4
From Sigma: 30mm f1.4 DC HSM, 85mm f1.4 DG HSM

These are the ones you'll have to track down, at least to find the price range:

DA Lenses: 18-250 f3.5-6.3
FA Lenses: 20mm f2.8, 135mm f2.8, 100-300 f4.5-5.6
A Lenses: 15mm f3.5 fisheye, 50mm f1.2
From Sigma: 14mm f2.8, 150-500mm f5-6.3 DG HSM

It looks like you have some leeway on those in particular. The insurance company might pay for a DA 55-300mm instead of the FA 100-300mm, since the FA isn't made, the DA is a reasonble replacement and not that costly. The DA* 60-250mm isn't. KEH.com has an FA for $79, though.


Last edited by Just1MoreDave; 12-18-2011 at 01:03 PM.
12-18-2011, 11:29 AM - 1 Like   #5
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Love KEH but don't forget Adorama and B&H, they sell used equipment too.
12-20-2011, 06:56 AM   #6
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how about getting the Pentax 14mm new instead of the sigma?
12-20-2011, 07:06 AM   #7
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I'm guessing but a new 15mm limited might not be more expensive then a used A 3.5/15mm
12-23-2011, 01:08 AM   #8
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Alright, I dug around and tried to find all of my receipts and serial numbers, but realized... they were under the padding of my pelican cases.. this really, really, sucks.

12-23-2011, 01:20 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kade.Sirin Quote
They did say that if the replacement item's cost is greater than the one listed, they MIGHT reimburse me if I submitted a receipt and they approved it. So I need to get something that's "like kind and quality" while within a certain price range.
I suppose insurance companies can have different rules but you might be misunderstanding this. I had a recent claim, tree fell on the house and shop, they asked me for a written estimate of damaged items and estimated value of each. An inspector came out and gave his estimate of the structural damage. I received a "preliminary check" very quickly with a note that if anything proved to be more expensive than the estimates then to provide them with proof of actual replacement cost and they would consider it. Sounds similar to what your insurance company is saying. The preliminary check covered the loss very nicely, both repairs to the house and replacing the tools damaged in the shop so I had no reason to file any additional claims.

So, does the check they sent cover your loss? I think the "like kind and quality" is only if you are dissatisfied with their payment, at least that is how mine worked. As far as I know if you are happy with the payment you can use the money to go to Bermuda if want. Your company may be different of course but you might want to have a talk with your agent to clarify.
12-23-2011, 07:00 PM   #10
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It sounds like you're unhappy with your insurance for some reason, but it's not clear exactly what you were expecting from them. What could they be doing differently?

Paul
12-24-2011, 02:49 AM   #11
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I think jatrax is right. I've been keeping half an eye on this thread, but I'm still not clear on why OP is upset about this (aside from the obvious loss of his original gear, of course).

It's not like the insurance company has the time or expertise to compare like "Oh, he bought a different focal length this one, and that one has SDM!" They flat out don't care as long as you replace your kit within the amount they gave you. Hell, they wouldn't care if you bought a Canikon kit to replace it (but I'm not suggesting that ).

This is actually a nice opportunity to buy your kit again with your current level of knowledge. I think a lot of us would make different choices now than we did when starting to buy lenses. Take advantage of that.
12-25-2011, 05:51 AM   #12
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Well, it wasn't the wait time, it wasn't the processing time. I'm only upset for two reasons, one, my house was robbed and I lost many items with emotional and sentimental value. Two, I'm upset because insurance gave me a "depreciated" value for every single item and then told me that I could replace them... Everything I claimed they looked up the online price or they used my claimed price (my receipt price) and then depreciated them by some amount. (I don't know the method to their madness) The depreciated amount is "recoverable" IF I repurchase an item of "like kind and quality" and send them a receipt.. for example, I purchase the K-r again for $593.89 (current body-only price on amazon) but they only gave me $480, I have to send down the receipt, wait for them to process it and decide if me buying a K-r again is ok. Then I wait for a check to reimburse me the difference; here it would be $113.89, and I have to do that for every single item. Its quite a bit of work that I don't really have the time for, yet I need to do if I want to replace my items. (though spending money is always fun) I'm also kinda annoyed that there will be items that I won't be able to find suitable replacements for... where am I going a power pack that will work with my two remaining ASCOR flash-heads? or how would get I that discontinued Panasonic 14-45mm lens for my GF1 (or even the GF1 itself)?

Funny thing though, my agent recommended I purchase NEW equivalents to everything I bought new and used for everything I bought used. He also suggested I go to a brick and mortar camera shop and have the guy there write something up to say "the above purchased items are evaluated to be of like kind and quality replacements". Though, I'm not quite sure I'd be able to buy an M8 to replace the Epson R-D1. Jatrax is correct in that my insurance company doesn't care where the money goes.

I'll also explain what the 23k was for.. 5k was jewelry which is the limit on my insurance, 6k was for damage to the house, broken mirrors, windows, glass, wall repair (they ripped a wall mounted TV OUT of the wall), etc, the remainder is the recovered value of items they've processed and approved. Not much when you really look at it. Though the claim isn't completely processed, my agent arranged the partial claim to facilitate repairs and some replacement. The remainder (I don't know how much) should be coming in early January if they don't have any questions for me.

Direct Responses:

Jatrax: The check only covers about a quarter of my loss, they're supposedly going to finish processing the entire claims list (a whopping 320-some items) and send me the remainder in a check the first or second week of January. Additionally, it was my agent's original paper explanation that confused me so badly. Upon reading yours and some conversations with the agent, I got things cleared up.

tibitts: Well. for the most part, they could've explained to me where they're getting the depreciation for each item from. Also that I wish they put down the correct items, in one case a 17" Toshiba Satellite P205 becomes a 14" Toshiba M645, in another a 32" LCD became a 22" LCD... Corrections for the items requires a new inventory form and notes in the notes section.

Philoslothical: It really is a good opportunity to start buying again. I get to buy new lenses, and buy different ones than I did previously. Plus I'll get reimbursed for some of them. I was originally asking just to find what others think was like kind and quality. Though now through conversations with my agent I pretty much am going to be on a shopping spree.. then a paperwork spree.. then my bank will love me, depositing 12 or more checks at the same time.
12-25-2011, 09:58 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kade.Sirin Quote
I'm only upset for two reasons, one, my house was robbed and I lost many items with emotional and sentimental value. Two, I'm upset because insurance gave me a "depreciated" value
Been robbed once myself. It hurts for a long time, oddly the damage done during the break in hurt worse than the the lost items, there was just no reason to smash things up. And no matter how accommodating your insurance is, it is still a lot of work to set right and you are correct, some things cannot be replaced.
12-25-2011, 11:00 AM   #14
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Several items come to mind.
  • 12-24 - I am assuming that this was purchased new. Currently new ones are impossible to find.
  • The out of production lenses - I would write up an explanation that if these were purchased used some years ago, that the lenses rather than depreciated, actually appreciated in value (you also need to document this condition). In that they are only available used (i.e., depreciated), that you are owed the actual purchase price for the same or very similar condition.

12-25-2011, 11:26 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by interested_observer Quote
I would write up an explanation that if these were purchased used some years ago, that the lenses rather than depreciated, actually appreciated in value
I agree. In this case the lenses are more similar to collectibles than general electronics in that the current price (used) is often more than the original price (new or used). This is why the insurance company allows for this process, but you do need to provide proof of current value. That might be a statement from a local camera shop or even a list of closed sales on ebay. Check with your agent as to what they will accept.

In my dealings with insurance companies they have gone out of their way to make sure I was happy and fully compensated. But you do have to do the work to provide them with the documentation to back up your claim.
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