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12-28-2011, 01:49 PM   #61
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I take your points, Rico. The controls would almost certainly have to be wireless. Battery life very limited if on-board (An L-sized cell or internal rechargable lithium) and it would be -like film - just a recorder with no output until you get home. Demand once this information is known and digested would fall, I think. The photography experience with even a decent super-zoom would be much more satisfying. There's just too much to do and so little space available.

12-28-2011, 02:32 PM   #62
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Some ideas to these questions:

QuoteOriginally posted by RioRico Quote
How is the cart to know when to power-up and activate?
A. Set the ISO on the cartridge. Insert cartridge.
B. Cartridge sets DX code on shell based on user setting.
C. Camera reads DX coding on shell to set camera ISO.
D. Cartridge powers up when camera reads DX coding - there must be a detectable change in current and/or resistance when camera reads the DX coding.
E. Cartridge includes tiny motion/sound sensor that can tell when the focal plane shutter is moving. When shutter movement detected, cartridge goes into capture mode and sensors charged to capture light.
F. Cartridge turns off when it detects that camera is turned off through DX coding (D).

QuoteQuote:
How is it to draw power?
Cartridge contains own power source. If space requirements tight, can be separated via ribbon cable to power unit that sits in pickup spool area. Maybe use a capacitor that gets charged via a tripod-socket mounted charger. Maybe use inductance to charge capacitor.

QuoteQuote:
How are its settings to be controlled?
Since ISO is set on cartridge, no settings to control. Cartridge just needs to know three things:
1. When camera is turned on
2. When shutter is pressed
3. When camera is turned off

I have no idea how feasible any of these things are. I studied engineering but that was a while ago.
12-28-2011, 02:41 PM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
Some ideas to these questions:


A. Set the ISO on the cartridge. Insert cartridge.
B. Cartridge sets DX code on shell based on user setting.
C. Camera reads DX coding on shell to set camera ISO.
You just eliminated every camera designed before 1984.
12-28-2011, 02:50 PM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote
You just eliminated every camera designed before 1984.
True, but conversely, I just included every camera from 1984 - 2004 or so. Is the glass half empty or half full?

12-28-2011, 02:55 PM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
True, but conversely, I just included every camera from 1984 - 2004 or so. Is the glass half empty or half full?
I would say half empty. The cameras that everyone on this thread want to use would be excluded. The only Pentax manual focus cameras that supported DX were the A3000, P series, and ZX-M. Not exactly a popular set of cameras.
12-28-2011, 03:10 PM   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote
I would say half empty. The cameras that everyone on this thread want to use would be excluded. The only Pentax manual focus cameras that supported DX were the A3000, P series, and ZX-M. Not exactly a popular set of cameras.
OK, then leave it up to the user to set the camera ISO to match the cartridge ISO. Just like old times. All that's left is a way to sense when the camera is on:
  • Put an on/off switch on the cartridge itself.
  • Or run a ribbon cable with an on/off switch to somewhere outside the camera.
  • Or a Bluetooth on/off switch.


Bottom line - nearly all the pieces needed to make this happen already exist. All it takes is:
  1. sufficient miniaturization of the related pieces
  2. sufficient power of the related pieces
  3. someone with the will and capital and belief that there is a market for such a device

1 and 2 will happen with the ceaseless march of progress. 3 is the stickier point.
12-28-2011, 03:52 PM   #67
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Believe it or not, not all cameras have batteries. Those that don't are ALWAYS "on".

A digital-ized SV would be divinely sublime....but batteries it ain't got.
12-28-2011, 06:38 PM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by TomB_tx Quote
With all this talk about "must have" features, consider the Leica M9. Full-frame (24x36), no SR, no autofocus, all manual lenses with aperture rings, simple center-weighted metering system, 60 yr-old optical viewfinder/rangefinder for focusing, old fashioned shutter speed dial (with a single A setting as well). At $7K for the body they are selling all they can make.
And how many is that, exactly?

12-28-2011, 07:35 PM   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mike Cash Quote
Believe it or not, not all cameras have batteries. Those that don't are ALWAYS "on".

A digital-ized SV would be divinely sublime....but batteries it ain't got.
If you read my last post you'll see that the device described will work with a camera without a meter or batteries.
12-28-2011, 10:20 PM   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by Marc Sabatella Quote
QuoteOriginally posted by TomB_tx:
With all this talk about "must have" features, consider the Leica M9. ... At $7K for the body they are selling all they can make.
And how many is that, exactly?
Probably at least one a day.
12-29-2011, 08:01 AM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote
They sell them with VR lenses. If Pentax were to eliminate SR they would have to release a new set of IS lenses.
Right...they offer the option of SR, but it's not included on their DSLRs and I wonder how many people immediately buy a VR lens. For those who don't, it's obviously not a deal-breaker.
12-29-2011, 08:48 AM   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by TaoMaas Quote
Right...they offer the option of SR, but it's not included on their DSLRs and I wonder how many people immediately buy a VR lens. For those who don't, it's obviously not a deal-breaker.
Canon and Nikon both have stabilized kit lenses. I'm also pretty sure that the majority of Canikon shooters never buy anything more than the kit lenses. Reference the story about Canon having made 50 million EOS cameras but only 70 million EF lenses.
12-29-2011, 09:36 AM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
I wonder what would happen if Pentax made a K1000D- basically a K1000 but with a digital sensor
It would be nice to see a modern version of the K1000 in digital form but I think the market place is no longer there. Many people coming into the D-slr market are former point and shoot camera type. These cameras feature a lot of modes that one will expect on a D-slr. This is dispite the fact that most users will never use most of these features in the first place. Marketing people see the need for it because user surveys say they need it in the first place.

I bought the Pentax K-m two years ago and still enjoy using it a lot. There is a lot of features I still have not looked at on it. The ones I do use make is very simple to use and get great results. In a way builting a manual and/or programmed, auto only d-slr at a low cost would be like making a stripped down K-5. The K-5 already has removed features like exporsure presets that are on the lower priced K-r. Anyone serious about photography will more then likely go to the top of the line camera for image and build quality. To get the the same build quality in a low cost D-slr, the cost of building it would not be possible to do.

The market place has changed a lot now. Serious photographers are willing to spend money on quality product to get results. Sadly the days of the K1000 type camera are long gone. People looking at a simple camera will be going to the higher end bridge camera type that can offer a product at a reasonable price point.

In saying this, Pentax could try builting a newer version the K1000 on a plaform like the older Pentax K-m with stripped down simplified controls. They have built the Pentax Q to a market place that questioned some of its design features but it looks like it is finding place with users. Building a low cost D-slr could either open up a new market or be a big flop.
12-29-2011, 11:10 AM   #74
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The one company that might do a "Digital K1000" would be Cosina, as they still make lines of manual lenses (Voigtlander) - even in K mount, and manual focus film cameras under various brands. Since they make a lot of Leica mount lenses (Zeiss and Voigtlander) there has been speculation that they might make a lower-end digital rangefinder. But they have made Pentax mount film bodies before, so a digital, manual focus SLR would fit their product line. However, their game is mainly to manufacture for other brands. Their own brands sell well in Japan, but not so much elsewhere. As has been pointed out, engineering costs for a new FF digital would be high, and hard to justify for their niche markets. However, they are a niche-market player and do things differently than the big companies. Who knows, maybe we'll get lucky.
12-29-2011, 03:02 PM   #75
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QuoteOriginally posted by TomB_tx Quote
With all this talk about "must have" features, consider the Leica M9. Full-frame (24x36), no SR, no autofocus, all manual lenses with aperture rings, simple center-weighted metering system, 60 yr-old optical viewfinder/rangefinder for focusing, old fashioned shutter speed dial (with a single A setting as well). At $7K for the body they are selling all they can make. Also selling all the lenses they can make (1-yr backlog, so they are doubling production capacity).
Why does a dSLR have to be more complex?
Awwwww crap. WHY did I have to follow that link to the M9? *headdesk* I knew there was a reason I'd avoided looking at any of the Leica cameras.

I shall now slink away and nurture my M9 lust while I keep giving myself a crash course in flash photography with my K-5 :P
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