Photographic ethics, outdoor people shooting

**Lowell Goudge** · 01-12-2012, 04:36 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by RioRico

I've suggested this here-and-there. Look 'official'. A bright vest, a hard-hat, an ID tag, a clipboard, and a camera -- nobody notices, not in USA anyway. Doesn't have to be govt-official, just contractor-official is good enough. If anyone asks WHAT YOU DOING? you say WORKING and turn away.

In toronto, that approach would have someone with a cell phone posting a poto of you as just another non productive government employee. We have had a rash of those lately

eddie1960 · 01-13-2012, 06:28 AM

Originally posted by Lowell Goudge

In toronto, that approach would have someone with a cell phone posting a poto of you as just another non productive government employee. We have had a rash of those lately

God forbid you make the mistake of having TTC emblazoned on it then you're in real trouble

fayf · 01-31-2012, 09:17 AM

You can definitely take as many pictures as you want in a democratic country, but I do think it is right to ask the subject of the photo if they mind the shot, even if this is after you took it.

RioRico · 01-31-2012, 10:42 AM

Originally posted by fayf

You can definitely take as many pictures as you want in a democratic country, but I do think it is right to ask the subject of the photo if they mind the shot, even if this is after you took it.

Do surveillance cameras ask your permission?

In much of the 'developed' world's built-up space, our images are automatically recorded. Walking or driving in public or private places, we are photographed constantly by agencies beyond our perception and control. We may extend small personal courtesies, as you suggest, but ubiquitous surveillance trivializes such nicety. I would rather live in a world where such courtesies ARE significant and meaningful. But that world no longer exists, if it ever did.

fayf · 01-31-2012, 10:45 AM

Agreed, but surveillance cameras take your picture for security reasons, and they are usually not shared with the public.
A photographer taking a picture of you is a whole different issue.

eddie1960 · 01-31-2012, 11:32 AM

Originally posted by fayf

Agreed, but surveillance cameras take your picture for security reasons, and they are usually not shared with the public.
A photographer taking a picture of you is a whole different issue.

So a journo out doing some shots at an event should ask you if you are ok with it then

How about at a political rally? or a protest?
Journalism is the granddaddy of street photography after all

fayf · 01-31-2012, 11:42 AM

Of course, as I said in the beginning, you don't HAVE to do anything and every situation is different, but it is courtesy to ask the subject of the photo permission, if the situation allows for it.

beholder3 · 01-31-2012, 12:09 PM

[deleted]

Philoslothical · 01-31-2012, 12:20 PM

Originally posted by beholder3

If you publish pictures on the net of somebody who you have no agreement with, I think that is more than rude (and illegal in many countries).

Which? I'm not disputing it, but it'd be interesting to see.

Originally posted by beholder3

If you publish and sell those pictures of somebody who you have no agreement with - that's even worse that taking some other commercial photographers photo from the net and selling it as your own.

This is perfectly legal in Canada, so long as the person in the photograph is not endorsing a product, and it was shot publicly, as in not through a window, or some other scenario were the subject had expectation of privacy.

Why do you think that someone should have any claim to your photos, just because they appear in them?

eddie1960 · 01-31-2012, 12:29 PM

Originally posted by Philoslothical

Which? I'm not disputing it, but it'd be interesting to see.

This is perfectly legal in Canada, so long as the person in the photograph is not endorsing a product, and it was shot publicly, as in not through a window, or some other scenario were the subject had expectation of privacy.

Why do you think that someone should have any claim to your photos, just because they appear in them?

it's pretty much legal in most western countries AFAIK, I can't speak for Asia , the middle east, south america or the former eastern bloc though

If it's in public you have no expectation of privacy, and in fact are frequently filmed without your permission as it's not needed.

If I'm shooting and someone asks to see the picture i will show them. if they ask me to delete it I probably will (but if it's really stellar i may swap cards and recover it later - usually though it's not

I've also hardly ever had that happen, maybe once or twice

RioRico · 01-31-2012, 03:52 PM

Originally posted by fayf

Agreed, but surveillance cameras take your picture for security reasons, and they are usually not shared with the public.

Ah yes, security. Funny how the mass introduction of 'security' cams in the UK hasn't affected incidence of crime in public places. And we hear anecdotes of amusing 'security' pix being shared-around and even posted on the Net. For that matter, are warez that allow hacking net-connected surveillance systems. Sorry, I don't feel very secure.

Quote:

A photographer taking a picture of you is a whole different issue.

Is it the camera you see versus the camera you don't see? Someone holding a phone.cam, or a cyclist wearing a helmet.cam, may be less noticable than a tourist with a kit Rebel, who is less obtrusive than me with the Lil'Bigma on my K20D. So is a small camera a valid excuse?

beholder3 · 01-31-2012, 11:29 PM

[deleted]

wildweasel · 02-01-2012, 03:59 AM

Originally posted by beholder3

In Germany it is not legal. It's called "the rights to your own pictures" (Google Übersetzer). The biggest exception is pictures where you are only "irrelevant" minor detail, such as a picture of a public building and your face is somewhere small in the corner. It's part of copyright laws and extends to 10 years after your death.

There seem to be similar laws in switzerland, austria and italy.

Even if your visiting a TV show as audience they have to get your written approval (usually required prior to entry) to be able to use shots of you.

As I said. Here I do have a full claim to any pictures taken of my. More than the one using some technical device to do so. I can forbid it and get componsation for it.

Drat, I'm flying to Berlin next Friday to visit friends and find a job. Best be careful if I do any street shooting then...

And Rio, there is a very good reason why we have all the security cams (half of the world's total) over here - where else would late night telly be without all the 'Drunken idiots have fights with the police' programming? I've used that argument before when someone had a go at me for taking their picture, I just quietly pointed out the security cam right above their head, the one 20 meters away on a lamp post, the one on the shop, 15 meters away, the one on the policeman's hat, the one attached to the almost silent r/c quadcopter flying overhead, the one on the.... well, you get the picture. And yes, our police use UAVs to watch over us and have hat-cams. People wonder why I'm leaving the country for good.

**Schraubstock** · 02-01-2012, 04:31 AM

Originally posted by RioRico

Funny how the mass introduction of 'security' cams in the UK hasn't affected incidence of crime in public places.

But in deed, it has helped to solve many !

**Schraubstock** · 02-01-2012, 04:54 AM

Hi

The Japanese generally are crazy about being photographed. (They are crazy about photography full stop) Point your cam at them and out comes the pose. This postie is a total stranger and it was bitterly cold but he could still manage a smile for me. Experienced this sort of behavior many times. So in Japan one has no problems.

Greetings

01-31-2012, 12:09 PM	#38
beholder3 Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 3,112	[deleted] Last edited by beholder3; 08-12-2013 at 01:57 AM.

01-31-2012, 11:29 PM	#42
beholder3 Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 3,112	[deleted] Last edited by beholder3; 08-12-2013 at 01:57 AM.

02-01-2012, 03:59 AM	#43
wildweasel Inactive Account Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Plymouth Posts: 359	Originally posted by beholder3 In Germany it is not legal. It's called "the rights to your own pictures" (Google Übersetzer). The biggest exception is pictures where you are only "irrelevant" minor detail, such as a picture of a public building and your face is somewhere small in the corner. It's part of copyright laws and extends to 10 years after your death. There seem to be similar laws in switzerland, austria and italy. Even if your visiting a TV show as audience they have to get your written approval (usually required prior to entry) to be able to use shots of you. As I said. Here I do have a full claim to any pictures taken of my. More than the one using some technical device to do so. I can forbid it and get componsation for it. Drat, I'm flying to Berlin next Friday to visit friends and find a job. Best be careful if I do any street shooting then... And Rio, there is a very good reason why we have all the security cams (half of the world's total) over here - where else would late night telly be without all the 'Drunken idiots have fights with the police' programming? I've used that argument before when someone had a go at me for taking their picture, I just quietly pointed out the security cam right above their head, the one 20 meters away on a lamp post, the one on the shop, 15 meters away, the one on the policeman's hat, the one attached to the almost silent r/c quadcopter flying overhead, the one on the.... well, you get the picture. And yes, our police use UAVs to watch over us and have hat-cams. People wonder why I'm leaving the country for good. Last edited by wildweasel; 02-01-2012 at 04:36 AM.

02-01-2012, 04:54 AM	#45
Schraubstock Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Melbourne Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,386	Hi The Japanese generally are crazy about being photographed. (They are crazy about photography full stop) Point your cam at them and out comes the pose. This postie is a total stranger and it was bitterly cold but he could still manage a smile for me. Experienced this sort of behavior many times. So in Japan one has no problems. Greetings Last edited by Schraubstock; 09-16-2012 at 05:30 PM.

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01-12-2012, 04:36 PM - 1 Like	#31
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,892	Originally posted by RioRico I've suggested this here-and-there. Look 'official'. A bright vest, a hard-hat, an ID tag, a clipboard, and a camera -- nobody notices, not in USA anyway. Doesn't have to be govt-official, just contractor-official is good enough. If anyone asks WHAT YOU DOING? you say WORKING and turn away. In toronto, that approach would have someone with a cell phone posting a poto of you as just another non productive government employee. We have had a rash of those lately

01-13-2012, 06:28 AM	#32
eddie1960 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,667	Originally posted by Lowell Goudge In toronto, that approach would have someone with a cell phone posting a poto of you as just another non productive government employee. We have had a rash of those lately God forbid you make the mistake of having TTC emblazoned on it then you're in real trouble

01-31-2012, 09:17 AM	#33
fayf New Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 5	You can definitely take as many pictures as you want in a democratic country, but I do think it is right to ask the subject of the photo if they mind the shot, even if this is after you took it.

01-31-2012, 10:42 AM	#34
RioRico Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Limbo, California Posts: 11,263	Originally posted by fayf You can definitely take as many pictures as you want in a democratic country, but I do think it is right to ask the subject of the photo if they mind the shot, even if this is after you took it. Do surveillance cameras ask your permission? In much of the 'developed' world's built-up space, our images are automatically recorded. Walking or driving in public or private places, we are photographed constantly by agencies beyond our perception and control. We may extend small personal courtesies, as you suggest, but ubiquitous surveillance trivializes such nicety. I would rather live in a world where such courtesies ARE significant and meaningful. But that world no longer exists, if it ever did.

01-31-2012, 10:45 AM	#35
fayf New Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 5	Agreed, but surveillance cameras take your picture for security reasons, and they are usually not shared with the public. A photographer taking a picture of you is a whole different issue.

01-31-2012, 11:32 AM	#36
eddie1960 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,667	Originally posted by fayf Agreed, but surveillance cameras take your picture for security reasons, and they are usually not shared with the public. A photographer taking a picture of you is a whole different issue. So a journo out doing some shots at an event should ask you if you are ok with it then How about at a political rally? or a protest? Journalism is the granddaddy of street photography after all

01-31-2012, 11:42 AM	#37
fayf New Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 5	Of course, as I said in the beginning, you don't HAVE to do anything and every situation is different, but it is courtesy to ask the subject of the photo permission, if the situation allows for it.

01-31-2012, 12:20 PM	#39
Philoslothical Veteran Member Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 1,889	Originally posted by beholder3 If you publish pictures on the net of somebody who you have no agreement with, I think that is more than rude (and illegal in many countries). Which? I'm not disputing it, but it'd be interesting to see. Originally posted by beholder3 If you publish and sell those pictures of somebody who you have no agreement with - that's even worse that taking some other commercial photographers photo from the net and selling it as your own. This is perfectly legal in Canada, so long as the person in the photograph is not endorsing a product, and it was shot publicly, as in not through a window, or some other scenario were the subject had expectation of privacy. Why do you think that someone should have any claim to your photos, just because they appear in them?

01-31-2012, 12:29 PM	#40
eddie1960 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,667	Originally posted by Philoslothical Which? I'm not disputing it, but it'd be interesting to see. This is perfectly legal in Canada, so long as the person in the photograph is not endorsing a product, and it was shot publicly, as in not through a window, or some other scenario were the subject had expectation of privacy. Why do you think that someone should have any claim to your photos, just because they appear in them? it's pretty much legal in most western countries AFAIK, I can't speak for Asia , the middle east, south america or the former eastern bloc though If it's in public you have no expectation of privacy, and in fact are frequently filmed without your permission as it's not needed. If I'm shooting and someone asks to see the picture i will show them. if they ask me to delete it I probably will (but if it's really stellar i may swap cards and recover it later - usually though it's not I've also hardly ever had that happen, maybe once or twice

01-31-2012, 03:52 PM	#41
RioRico Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Limbo, California Posts: 11,263	Originally posted by fayf Agreed, but surveillance cameras take your picture for security reasons, and they are usually not shared with the public. Ah yes, security. Funny how the mass introduction of 'security' cams in the UK hasn't affected incidence of crime in public places. And we hear anecdotes of amusing 'security' pix being shared-around and even posted on the Net. For that matter, are warez that allow hacking net-connected surveillance systems. Sorry, I don't feel very secure. Quote: A photographer taking a picture of you is a whole different issue. Is it the camera you see versus the camera you don't see? Someone holding a phone.cam, or a cyclist wearing a helmet.cam, may be less noticable than a tourist with a kit Rebel, who is less obtrusive than me with the Lil'Bigma on my K20D. So is a small camera a valid excuse?

02-01-2012, 04:31 AM	#44
Schraubstock Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Melbourne Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,386	Originally posted by RioRico Funny how the mass introduction of 'security' cams in the UK hasn't affected incidence of crime in public places. But in deed, it has helped to solve many !