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02-11-2012, 03:54 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
Then why does a company know for their colour accurate monitors (Eizo) use PVA instead of IPS?
Many believed EIZO is the holy-grail of monitors and to be honest, I don't know. Perhaps EIZO signed a deal with Samsung who is the sole producer of PVA panels. Or maybe you can just tell me the reason since you know something that I don't?

02-11-2012, 04:31 PM   #17
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Anyone who wants to learn more about monitor types should start here:
http://www.robertstech.com/blog/?p=31
He isn't going into extreme technical detail, but the information is solid.
02-11-2012, 04:55 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
Problem for CRT is the brightness, they can't get that high so the contrast actually suffer from it.
I've a LCD and a CRT both calibrated but the CRT almost needs full brightness while the LCD is at 30% and this is in a dark room...
You are correct. LCDs are very bright to the point that you have to turn it down quite a bit for accurate viewing. On the flip side they can never get really black, so they suffer a significant loss in contrast at that end.

CRTs will loose brightness over time as they get older. I had to re-adjust mine internally to bring it back to full brightness a couple years ago.
02-11-2012, 05:25 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by wlachan Quote
Many believed EIZO is the holy-grail of monitors and to be honest, I don't know. Perhaps EIZO signed a deal with Samsung who is the sole producer of PVA panels. Or maybe you can just tell me the reason since you know something that I don't?
Eizo did earn that position not for nothing, if they are the best i don't know but they are rated high though.
Samsung does indeed provide the PVA but LG provide almost all the IPS screens so what you say might also be between NEC and LG, who knows?

But you said that IPS is better than PVA for PP and i would like to know what you base that on.

As far as i know when we are talking about the quality screens like EIZO and NEC, IPS provide greater viewing angles and use less energy but PVA provide deeper/darker blacks, so i atleast would find it hard to say which one is better.

02-11-2012, 05:28 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by demp10 Quote
You are correct. LCDs are very bright to the point that you have to turn it down quite a bit for accurate viewing. On the flip side they can never get really black, so they suffer a significant loss in contrast at that end.

CRTs will loose brightness over time as they get older. I had to re-adjust mine internally to bring it back to full brightness a couple years ago.
Internally, that's intersting, might need to check up on that for my screen, i would want a little bit off headroom in mine to match the LCD better.

Btw have you seen the new PLS screen, that one has some amazin contrast...
02-11-2012, 05:29 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Anyone who wants to learn more about monitor types should start here:
http://www.robertstech.com/blog/?p=31
He isn't going into extreme technical detail, but the information is solid.
Blocked for me...
02-11-2012, 05:48 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
Internally, that's intersting
Yes, that would be old school. CRT (analog) monitors allow internal adjustments. Just stay away from that fly-back transformer and the anode lead.
02-11-2012, 05:53 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
Eizo did earn that position not for nothing, if they are the best i don't know but they are rated high though.
Samsung does indeed provide the PVA but LG provide almost all the IPS screens so what you say might also be between NEC and LG, who knows?

But you said that IPS is better than PVA for PP and i would like to know what you base that on.

As far as i know when we are talking about the quality screens like EIZO and NEC, IPS provide greater viewing angles and use less energy but PVA provide deeper/darker blacks, so i atleast would find it hard to say which one is better.
I am well aware of the EIZO reputation so there is no need to repeat it so often. What I am interested in is the PVA panels that they are using. What made them on par or superior to IPS for PP? I ask because you obviously know something I don't. The question has yet to be answered. Before the 24" H-IPS that I have now, I had the Samsung 24" S-PVA which was hot and suffer from purple tint due to viewing angle. The IPS that I have now has no poorer deep black than the Samsung. I don't know how much their PVA have improved in 2 years but I have yet to read some test results showing they suppressed IPS for PP.

From my uninformed POV, 2 reasons I can think of: 1) SAMSUNG is huge and offered some juicy deal with EIZO, and 2) LG IPS QC suck. If I were building expensive products, tight QC and cost are paramount. But technological wise, IPS still has the edge everywhere I have read.

02-11-2012, 06:55 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
Internally, that's intersting, might need to check up on that for my screen, i would want a little bit off headroom in mine to match the LCD better.

Btw have you seen the new PLS screen, that one has some amazin contrast...
The external brightness control on CRT displays has a rather limited range of adjustments. Internally there are trim pots that allow a much greater range. You will need to find the service manual for your display to locate which one to adjust. On the Viewsonic P225f, there are 3 pots in the back of the unit accessible after you remove the cover. One is for brightness. All it was needed, was a very small increase and the monitor got a new life. It is a very dangerous operation though since even with the monitor off and unplugged, there is static electricity in the thousands of volts. Just remember to wear rubber shoes, keep one hand in your pocket, and use a plastic screwdriver to turn the trim pot.

PLS technology is very interesting but it still relies on backlit displays so it can not go very black (as compared to a CRT). I am sure it is a lot of brighter (which contributes to higher contrast) but once you set it to proper values for viewing images (you will have to reduce brightness sometimes over 50%) the contrast gets much lower. A calibrated CRT will have the same brightness as a calibrated LCD, but it can be significantly blacker.
02-12-2012, 12:25 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by wlachan Quote
I am well aware of the EIZO reputation so there is no need to repeat it so often. What I am interested in is the PVA panels that they are using. What made them on par or superior to IPS for PP? I ask because you obviously know something I don't. The question has yet to be answered. Before the 24" H-IPS that I have now, I had the Samsung 24" S-PVA which was hot and suffer from purple tint due to viewing angle. The IPS that I have now has no poorer deep black than the Samsung. I don't know how much their PVA have improved in 2 years but I have yet to read some test results showing they suppressed IPS for PP.

From my uninformed POV, 2 reasons I can think of: 1) SAMSUNG is huge and offered some juicy deal with EIZO, and 2) LG IPS QC suck. If I were building expensive products, tight QC and cost are paramount. But technological wise, IPS still has the edge everywhere I have read.
Eizo use a different processor and as far as i know they also use a different plate/filter on the panel so they aren't much comparable with Samsung in that regard.
NEC used to had a pro-grade PVA screen but not anymore i believe but they have released a office model end last year.
It's cPVA so not meant for the pro market and slightly different then the PVA screens but look at the contrast, it does support full sRGB for a soft price so might be worth a look when on a budget.
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02-12-2012, 12:31 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ex Finn. Quote
Yes, that would be old school. CRT (analog) monitors allow internal adjustments. Just stay away from that fly-back transformer and the anode lead.
QuoteOriginally posted by demp10 Quote
The external brightness control on CRT displays has a rather limited range of adjustments. Internally there are trim pots that allow a much greater range. You will need to find the service manual for your display to locate which one to adjust. On the Viewsonic P225f, there are 3 pots in the back of the unit accessible after you remove the cover. One is for brightness. All it was needed, was a very small increase and the monitor got a new life. It is a very dangerous operation though since even with the monitor off and unplugged, there is static electricity in the thousands of volts. Just remember to wear rubber shoes, keep one hand in your pocket, and use a plastic screwdriver to turn the trim pot.

PLS technology is very interesting but it still relies on backlit displays so it can not go very black (as compared to a CRT). I am sure it is a lot of brighter (which contributes to higher contrast) but once you set it to proper values for viewing images (you will have to reduce brightness sometimes over 50%) the contrast gets much lower. A calibrated CRT will have the same brightness as a calibrated LCD, but it can be significantly blacker.
Thank you will try it maybe, screen is still good though "just".

I still need to read more about PLS of actual tests.
Samsung has now brought out a cheap version of PVA that does have amazing static contrast though 3000:1 on a calibrated screen is quite good, no idea what CRT manage.
02-14-2012, 06:45 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by PPPPPP42 Quote
<snip>
I turned it down to 6500k and suddenly all my pics that my friend said look normal actually look normal. Meanwhile this white text box looks like laundry in need of bleach,
<snip>
The box the text is displayed in when you view a thread is pale grey, not white!
02-14-2012, 12:22 PM   #28
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Tongue-in-cheek but somewhat accurate reply to original question, which I will rephrase as "how do I know my monitor displays my pictures inaccurately": same as the answer to the question "how do you know when a lawyer is lying"...
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