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02-14-2012, 03:44 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Marc Sabatella Quote
Brightening a phot in PP is *exactly* like shooting at higher ISO. So whether you shoot ISO 3200 and brighten it on estop in PP, or just shoot it well exposed at ISO 6300, you get the exact same noise. That's because either way, you are shooting the same apertur and shutter speed and thus giving the sensor the same amount of light. Whether you let the camera deal with brightening it (by turning up ISO) or do it yourself (via PP), you're still taking the same basic sensor data and doing the same basic amplification. So don,t think you can finesse the ISO controls. By the time you do your PP to get your shots the brightness you want, all shots taken with a given aperture and shutter speed will end up looking the same in terms of noise no matter what ISO you shoot at. Unless you try shooting ISO 100 or something else crazy low - the camera's analog electronics will do a better job of amplifiying the signal up to about ISO 800 or 1600.

As for shooting f/2.8 versus f/3.5, whatever small difference in sharpness there. Ight is almost guaranteed to be completely masked by loss of detail from noise and/or blur from the slower shutter speed. Chances are, it,s must coincidence if you of your f/3.5 shots happen to look better. Or more likely, it,s because the shots you took at f/3.5 were in situations where there was more light than usual, and that allowed you a faster shutter speed. F/2.8 would have allowed faster shutter speed still. You could also be seeing rhe diffeence in DOF - more of your picture will be in focus at f/3.5 than at f/2.8.

Anyhow, some amount of noise in concert photography is just a given. You have to go into it with a different set of expectations than say landscapes or portraits.

Flash is fine in some venues, an absolutely no-no in others. Basically, it's the equivalent of yelling across the room. If the environment is loud and crazy such that you wouldn't think twice about yelling to friend across the room, then flash will be fine too. If it's the sort of setting where even ordinary conversation will earn you dirty looks from the rest of the audience and from he musicians, rest assured flash is even more annoying.
I have a feeling you could be right, the first Live Band shoot I ever did I accidentally knocked it off F/2.8 on to F/3.5, I didn't even notice till the end of the night, so I have a feeling it was pretty much a fluke and I was lucky to get a couple of really nice shots.
I think another mistake Im making is actually trying to brighten them too much, looking at other photographers Flickrs, a lot are quite dark anyway.

02-14-2012, 06:45 PM   #17
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Here's one @ 10,000. Over PP'd I'll admit....but usable.
02-15-2012, 04:26 AM   #18
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Geez that looks fantastic... That was shot at a much higher ISO than I've been using but looks a lot nicer.

Here's some of the shots I've taken where I've had problems..
There's this one, which is one of the more recent ones, which I was a bit disappointed in the sharpness.


ISO:6400 F/2.8 0.025 sec (1/40)


Where as this is one of the first photos I took, I was impressed with how sharp it was AND the lighting was worse that night!

ISO:3200 F/3.5 0.025 sec (1/40)

Do you think it's mostly a depth of field thing? Like maybe I had accidentally focussed on the guitar and his arm instead of his face on that first shot.
Or possibly just fluked it with that last shot!
02-15-2012, 06:34 AM   #19
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try and keep the ISO above 6400. that will give you access to shutter speeds @ or above 200.

2 examples of noise above 6400:

here's the SOOC shot from above with nothing done to it.


here's another one from a wrestling match where i needed to keep the shutter above 200.
iso 6400 f3.5 1/350th.


02-15-2012, 01:17 PM   #20
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Mm okay! I will do that tonight and see what I can come up with!
Thanks so much everyone
02-16-2012, 01:56 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by paceyy Quote
ISO:6400 F/2.8 0.025 sec (1/40)
That's just not a fast enough shutter speed to guarantee sharpness. Sometimes you'll get lucky, sometimes not. But turning up ISO higher just to get a faster shutter speed won't necessarily help, as you will pay a price in sharpness from the higher ISO as well. Only thing to do is just shoot a bunch and hope some turn out well enough.

But sure, it's also possible focus was somewhere different than you'd want on that particular shot. Even if you nail focus, though, you have to expect a bunch of shots that are not sharp due to too slow a shutter speed - that's just unavoidable in this business.

Luckily, at the sizes these pictures are generally viewed or printed, it's seldom that critical. Your first posted shot, while not as sharp as the second, is still "sharp enough" for many purposes.

As for overbrightening, a nice thing about concert photography is that the usual look of a lit subject against a dark background has several advantages. It hides the clutter that is usually on stage, it hides a lot of the noise, and it focuses attention on the subject.
02-17-2012, 01:14 AM   #22
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These shots of Soundgarden were taken hand held with a K-5 and DA* 300, wide open at 1600 ISO. Unedited jpegs. First shot at 1/250th, second at 1/500th. They would not have suffered much at all by pushing the ISO a stop or two. By the way, If anyone can tell me why they loaded sideways it would be much appreciated ;-)

Shooting remotely animated live music at shutter speeds below about 1/125th is pretty pointless.
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02-17-2012, 01:29 AM   #23
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Cool soundgarden shots! How did you get the DA* 300 in?

02-17-2012, 01:37 AM   #24
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I had pit access for tonedeaf.com.au. You can see the rest of the shots there ;-)
02-17-2012, 05:11 AM - 2 Likes   #25
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Hey guys!
Came out with some much better shots this week.

This one even at ISO 8000


and another at ISO 6400



I didn't get many good ones, maybe 6 or 7 of each of the 4 bands, but pretty happy with the ones I did get.

Thanks again for all the great advise!
02-17-2012, 05:10 PM   #26
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nice shots
You know most of them? the bands i mean..you could do some serious things in that space with some off camera lighting.
02-17-2012, 06:12 PM   #27
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Yeah I know the guy who runs the club, but thats only problem... it's a club so they lighting is always terrible and I don't think they can do much about it.
What do you siggest?
02-17-2012, 08:29 PM   #28
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Orphaned Land Concert 21.2.08 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bensyverson/207559704/in/set-72157594225578981
Random flickr, off camera lighting shots...
And a nice web: http://www.ishootshows.com.

The venue seems quite small, the bands look like punk music..and are those panels over the band heads? You could place a flash on slave mode in there and get some strong zenithal light shots, have you seen "la jetée"?? you can replicate some of that ambience with lights well placed.
Knowing the owner you may find places either to place flashes or high wattage lamps (not too expensive and you can buy them at a hardware store)... maybe you can convince the owner to hang some of them on the walls and connect them to a switch table and create great lighting diagrams. The lamps will be bulky and may deliver a harsh light...so maybe flashes would be better. If you're really into concert photo and gonna keep documenting the concerts there you may want to invest in a set of flashes and radio triggers (with 5 flashes you can create a couple of light diagrams in different channels and switch between them). If you can convince the owner you may put a couple of rails on the ceiling with things to house and hold your flashes, i'm doing a DIY studio and you can do marvels.
You gotta insist on the amazing shots you're going to do once you can control the light ( you're doing fine with available light, once you can control it just imagine all the ambience, color, detail you'll be able to generate.!)
Buy cheap but powerfull flashes (like the older SB's or even better the Vivitars coupled to V5's), you can put them bare for hard light, dramatic shadows, contast or build DIY modifyers (Ikea catalogue and ball-like fabric lamps are cheap and great) for smoother light. You can the talk to the bands, find out the look they might want, maybe get them to pull stranger stronger performances Iggy pop style ...then go early shoot the scene with a couple of friends and during the show you can mix controlled lighting with available light photography...
Man i'd kill for a venue like that!
02-19-2012, 06:05 PM   #29
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Haha.
I don't think he would let me do any of that. To be honest I only got my camera a few weeks ago and I'm very much still learning how to use it! So I don't know if Ill get into any of that yet. Hopefully in the future though!
Here is another shot I am really proud of, just finished editing the rest.
All thanks to the shutter speed/settings help from you guys

02-20-2012, 03:45 AM   #30
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I think you'll find that a 50 1.4, if you have the space, will work wonders for you in low light. Even stopping it down will double the amount of light you're currently getting. Nice shots, but I would start working on your white balance next. Its a long process of "dialing it in". You'll get it.
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