Stained image sensor - on a K10D?

rontz · 02-29-2012, 08:48 AM

after shooting some years with my K10D, I noticed that in some pictures there were darker spots - always on the same place.
First I thought this would be dust on the lens, but after some testing I realised that this was no option, as it's happening with other lenses, too.
So my next thought was dust on the sensor. As I really didn't wanna touch my sensor with anything, I just kept shooting with the spots and removed them with photoshop later - at that time I had no idea about the stained image sensor problem that the K-5 had.
Now, as I've gotten the K-5 last november, I got in touch with the stained image sensor problem "for the first time".
After some testing I noticed my K-5 seems to have slight problems there,too, though it's got a serial number where this problem shouldn't occur anymore (40xxxxx), but will go to service soon.
But as I wanted my K10D to perform nicely as well, I finally cleaned my sensor but the dots still were there, so I asked the Pentax Service if there's something that could be done about this problem on this cam. Their short answer was: "There's no stained image sensor on the K10D."
So my question to all of you guys is:
What could be my problem with my cameras?

Caution - Full res. pictures! 20 mb and 23 mb!

Pentax K-5 with SMD Da 55-300. Processed to make the "dots" more visible.

Pentax K10D with SMD Da 55-300. Processed to make the "dots" more visible. A clear case of the famous problem that the K-5 had, in my eyes. The little circle on the top left seems to be remains of the sensor cleaning fluid - so that's my fault.

Last edited by rontz; 02-29-2012 at 09:01 AM. Reason: Fixed the second link

jezza323 · 02-29-2012, 09:12 AM

That looks a lot like dust to me. How was your sensor cleaned?

rontz · 02-29-2012, 09:18 AM

I used pre-wetted CCD swabs. (On the K10D)
What's also making me doubt that it's dust, is that you can't see ANYthing on the sensor, not even with bright light. The only thing I could see was the tiny drop that now visible on the top left.
I also tried a blower on both cameras with no effect.

bobmaxja · 02-29-2012, 11:04 AM

THe K-5 is really dust. Dont have any of the patern of the stain like a donut

What f# are you using and cropping
Are any of these showing in real photo???

rontz · 02-29-2012, 11:50 AM

there was no cropping at all.
thanks for the K-5 hint. Do you think it makes sense to send it service because of this dust? shouldn't the dust be visible on the sensor, slightly at least? why didn't the K-5's dust-removal system and/or the blower get rid of this? (so many questions, I know^^)
what i changed (in iphoto) was: tonal width, contrast, "definition" (don't know if that's the right english expression), highlights, shadows and sharpness.

Some of those spots are really showing up in real photos - that's why I started testing. Noticed it on landscape-photos (high contrasts), as I'm a lot into landscape photography.

Adam · 02-29-2012, 01:35 PM

Thank looks like a ton of dust to me. Get a rocket blower

stevebrot · 02-29-2012, 01:40 PM

Originally posted by Adam

Get a rocket blower

What he said. Use wet cleaning as an absolute last resort.

Steve

rontz · 02-29-2012, 02:25 PM

Are you guys talking about the K-5 or the K10D?
For the K10D I think a blower wouldn't give better results in dust removal than wet cleaning - and latter didn't help at all :-/
But I'll gives the blower one more try on the K-5, thanks for the hint

twitch · 02-29-2012, 02:38 PM

There's nothing "wrong" with your cameras, you simply have a lot of dust on your sensors, as well as residual on your K10D sensor.

If you do an "auto levels" adjustment on those images you'll see exactly how much dust you have.

Wet cleaning should have been the last resort. Start with a blower, then use something like an artic butterfly or sensor brush, and only if that doesn't work should you do a wet clean.

westmill · 02-29-2012, 02:44 PM

Optitech lens cleaner would probably do the job. pour on peel off !

calicojack · 02-29-2012, 04:35 PM

Looks like dust to me as well.
1) Rocket blower
2) Pentax Lollipop (Pentax Image Sensor Cleaning Kit, O-ICK1)
3)Arctic Butterfly brush
4) Professional wet cleaning
5)Retest and repeat as necessary

rontz · 02-29-2012, 05:36 PM

Ok, after some (looooonnnng) cleaning-testing I can say you were all kind of right.
A lot of it is dust. On the K10D, the main problem seemed to be invisible remains of my earlier wet-cleaning try. After some hours of different cleaning trys (blower, brush, dry swab, wet swab), I can say the blower doesn't do any good. It seems to blow micro-dust-particles onto the sensor while (re-)moving others. The brush wasn't as bad as I thought it would be, but didn't help much either. The dry swab does a good job in removing some wet-swab traces, but brings new dust in as well. The wet-swab was a total catastrophe, partially. It leaves dust- or fluidremains on the sensor which are so tiny that you can't see them with the bare eye. But that's not the worst thing. If you're using one swab for to long, it starts to smear around.
Now as I've got rid of most of the stuff and know it's no sensorproblem, I think I'll invest in a professional cleaning - few dust is okay for some time, but I just don't want dust on my sensor.

Thanks to all of you for your advise!

One last advise from my side, when using wet-swabs:
If you see a remaining tiny drop on your sensor after cleaning - get it off!
The last time, I didn't. The result is the small white spot surrounded with black one the top left of the K10D image and it seems this can't be removed. Probably the alcohol damaged the sensor there because it stayed there for too long.

calicojack · 02-29-2012, 06:02 PM

Originally posted by rontz

One last advise from my side, when using wet-swabs:
If you see a remaining tiny drop on your sensor after cleaning - get it off!
The last time, I didn't. The result is the small white spot surrounded with black one the top left of the K10D image and it seems this can't be removed. Probably the alcohol damaged the sensor there because it stayed there for too long.

Don't give up on that yet. Wait to see what the professional cleaning will get out. Remember, it's not really the sensor that's dirty, it's the filter in front of it.

Bertil · 03-04-2012, 07:09 AM

I cleaned my son´s K10D and my own K20D by simply using mirrorlockup in the menue and carefully putting in the tube of our vacuumcleaner and start the cleaner.100% success!Why this fuss with blowers-where you just move the dust around- or wet cleaning.I wouldn´t hesitate using my method on my second Pentax-K5 if I had dust problems there.
Bertil

canajuneh · 03-05-2012, 07:59 AM

If the blower seems to put MORE dust onto the sensor I'd think I'd assume that I had a REALLY dirty, dusty camera and keep working at cleaning it up. Of course, I'm no expert, but if blowing puts dust onto the just cleaned up sensor my type of logic says it has to be coming from somewhere!

02-29-2012, 08:48 AM	#1
rontz New Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Bavaria Photos: Gallery Posts: 20	Stained image sensor - on a K10D? after shooting some years with my K10D, I noticed that in some pictures there were darker spots - always on the same place. First I thought this would be dust on the lens, but after some testing I realised that this was no option, as it's happening with other lenses, too. So my next thought was dust on the sensor. As I really didn't wanna touch my sensor with anything, I just kept shooting with the spots and removed them with photoshop later - at that time I had no idea about the stained image sensor problem that the K-5 had. Now, as I've gotten the K-5 last november, I got in touch with the stained image sensor problem "for the first time". After some testing I noticed my K-5 seems to have slight problems there,too, though it's got a serial number where this problem shouldn't occur anymore (40xxxxx), but will go to service soon. But as I wanted my K10D to perform nicely as well, I finally cleaned my sensor but the dots still were there, so I asked the Pentax Service if there's something that could be done about this problem on this cam. Their short answer was: "There's no stained image sensor on the K10D." So my question to all of you guys is: What could be my problem with my cameras? Caution - Full res. pictures! 20 mb and 23 mb! Pentax K-5 with SMD Da 55-300. Processed to make the "dots" more visible. Pentax K10D with SMD Da 55-300. Processed to make the "dots" more visible. A clear case of the famous problem that the K-5 had, in my eyes. The little circle on the top left seems to be remains of the sensor cleaning fluid - so that's my fault. Last edited by rontz; 02-29-2012 at 09:01 AM. Reason: Fixed the second link

02-29-2012, 01:35 PM	#6
Adam Administrator Site Webmaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 51,595	Thank looks like a ton of dust to me. Get a rocket blower Adam PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide \| Site Help \| My Photography) PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating or purchasing one of our Pentax eBooks. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

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02-29-2012, 09:12 AM	#2
jezza323 Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Brisbane Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,421	That looks a lot like dust to me. How was your sensor cleaned?

02-29-2012, 09:18 AM	#3
rontz New Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Bavaria Photos: Gallery Posts: 20 Original Poster	I used pre-wetted CCD swabs. (On the K10D) What's also making me doubt that it's dust, is that you can't see ANYthing on the sensor, not even with bright light. The only thing I could see was the tiny drop that now visible on the top left. I also tried a blower on both cameras with no effect.

02-29-2012, 11:04 AM	#4
bobmaxja Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Laval, Quebec Canada Posts: 2,171	THe K-5 is really dust. Dont have any of the patern of the stain like a donut What f# are you using and cropping Are any of these showing in real photo???

02-29-2012, 11:50 AM	#5
rontz New Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Bavaria Photos: Gallery Posts: 20 Original Poster	there was no cropping at all. thanks for the K-5 hint. Do you think it makes sense to send it service because of this dust? shouldn't the dust be visible on the sensor, slightly at least? why didn't the K-5's dust-removal system and/or the blower get rid of this? (so many questions, I know^^) what i changed (in iphoto) was: tonal width, contrast, "definition" (don't know if that's the right english expression), highlights, shadows and sharpness. Some of those spots are really showing up in real photos - that's why I started testing. Noticed it on landscape-photos (high contrasts), as I'm a lot into landscape photography.

02-29-2012, 01:40 PM	#7
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by Adam Get a rocket blower What he said. Use wet cleaning as an absolute last resort. Steve

02-29-2012, 02:25 PM	#8
rontz New Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Bavaria Photos: Gallery Posts: 20 Original Poster	Are you guys talking about the K-5 or the K10D? For the K10D I think a blower wouldn't give better results in dust removal than wet cleaning - and latter didn't help at all :-/ But I'll gives the blower one more try on the K-5, thanks for the hint

02-29-2012, 02:38 PM	#9
twitch Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 4,571	There's nothing "wrong" with your cameras, you simply have a lot of dust on your sensors, as well as residual on your K10D sensor. If you do an "auto levels" adjustment on those images you'll see exactly how much dust you have. Wet cleaning should have been the last resort. Start with a blower, then use something like an artic butterfly or sensor brush, and only if that doesn't work should you do a wet clean.

02-29-2012, 02:44 PM	#10
westmill Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Stoke on Trent Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,146	Optitech lens cleaner would probably do the job. pour on peel off !

02-29-2012, 04:35 PM	#11
calicojack Inactive Account Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Long Island, N.Y. Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,124	Looks like dust to me as well. 1) Rocket blower 2) Pentax Lollipop (Pentax Image Sensor Cleaning Kit, O-ICK1) 3)Arctic Butterfly brush 4) Professional wet cleaning 5)Retest and repeat as necessary

02-29-2012, 05:36 PM	#12
rontz New Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Bavaria Photos: Gallery Posts: 20 Original Poster	Ok, after some (looooonnnng) cleaning-testing I can say you were all kind of right. A lot of it is dust. On the K10D, the main problem seemed to be invisible remains of my earlier wet-cleaning try. After some hours of different cleaning trys (blower, brush, dry swab, wet swab), I can say the blower doesn't do any good. It seems to blow micro-dust-particles onto the sensor while (re-)moving others. The brush wasn't as bad as I thought it would be, but didn't help much either. The dry swab does a good job in removing some wet-swab traces, but brings new dust in as well. The wet-swab was a total catastrophe, partially. It leaves dust- or fluidremains on the sensor which are so tiny that you can't see them with the bare eye. But that's not the worst thing. If you're using one swab for to long, it starts to smear around. Now as I've got rid of most of the stuff and know it's no sensorproblem, I think I'll invest in a professional cleaning - few dust is okay for some time, but I just don't want dust on my sensor. Thanks to all of you for your advise! One last advise from my side, when using wet-swabs: If you see a remaining tiny drop on your sensor after cleaning - get it off! The last time, I didn't. The result is the small white spot surrounded with black one the top left of the K10D image and it seems this can't be removed. Probably the alcohol damaged the sensor there because it stayed there for too long.

02-29-2012, 06:02 PM	#13
calicojack Inactive Account Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Long Island, N.Y. Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,124	Originally posted by rontz One last advise from my side, when using wet-swabs: If you see a remaining tiny drop on your sensor after cleaning - get it off! The last time, I didn't. The result is the small white spot surrounded with black one the top left of the K10D image and it seems this can't be removed. Probably the alcohol damaged the sensor there because it stayed there for too long. Don't give up on that yet. Wait to see what the professional cleaning will get out. Remember, it's not really the sensor that's dirty, it's the filter in front of it.

03-04-2012, 07:09 AM	#14
Bertil New Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Kristianstad Posts: 3	I cleaned my son´s K10D and my own K20D by simply using mirrorlockup in the menue and carefully putting in the tube of our vacuumcleaner and start the cleaner.100% success!Why this fuss with blowers-where you just move the dust around- or wet cleaning.I wouldn´t hesitate using my method on my second Pentax-K5 if I had dust problems there. Bertil

03-05-2012, 07:59 AM	#15
canajuneh Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Saskatchewan Posts: 221	If the blower seems to put MORE dust onto the sensor I'd think I'd assume that I had a REALLY dirty, dusty camera and keep working at cleaning it up. Of course, I'm no expert, but if blowing puts dust onto the just cleaned up sensor my type of logic says it has to be coming from somewhere!