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04-29-2012, 03:57 AM   #16
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Wish him good luck!

04-29-2012, 08:13 PM   #17
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Brian, my nephew, who is trying to get the lens off the camera, wrote me this email:

Karl,
What would you rather I save, the camera or the lens? I assume the camera, it looks like I may have to be somewhat destructive to remove it. I can also just leave it if you'd rather investigate other methods.
Brian

I emailed him back that I would like the camera undamaged, if possible, but that before taking any action could he please wait until tomorrow to give me a chance to talk to the gentleman from my workplace who loaned me the lens.

This makes me sad to have to break this bad news to him tomorrow. Meanwhile, a friend of mine who is a professional photographer, is incredulous that anyone would attempt putting such an old lens on such a recent camera.
04-29-2012, 11:34 PM   #18
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I'm sorry to hear you are having so many problems with it. Many have a rounded bump where you can get the pin to retract by slipping something past it. Even if they are not so rounded, if the spring is not super strong, the AF screw can sometimes pop it out. There are a few that have a smaller diameter pin with straight sides (mix that with a strong spring and you are in trouble). The attached pic shows a comparison. I'm guessing you got one of those long, straight pins with a decent strength spring. If you want to try a last ditch effort, you could try cutting the pin. If you try it,
!!!!!MAKE SURE THE AUTO FOCUS SWITCH IS SET TO MANUAL FOCUS OR YOU COULD CUT THE AUTO FOCUS DRIVE!!!!!
I know I had heard about it being done and found a link but the saw blade might be a bit hard to find. I think I have gotten them at harbor freight tools before (not dremel brand). They are paper thin spring steel unlike most you see that are thicker.

Stuck Pentax Lens

This one looks promising too.
Saw Blade, Germany, 1" Diameter 1/16" hole. FREEshipUSA | eBay

Alternatively you could try thinning down a coping or jig saw blade with a grinder?

I'm guessing work from the bottom so metal particles do not fall into the camera?

While this would probably make the lens not work right on a ricoh camera, you could remove the pin and salvage the lens. Actually it should work on a ricoh, just not with the auto aperture function.

Hope that helps some.

Your friend must not be too familiar with pentax cameras. Every pentax lens (made by pentax) all the way back through the old m42 screw mounts from the 60's or maybe a bit earlier will work with a modern pentax dslr. They were designed to be backward compatible by pentax.

Here is the problem. That lens was designed for a ricoh camera but perhaps not necessarily a pentax. Ricoh came out with their own mount based on the k mount but with different contacts (namely the ricoh pin). Some were designed to work with both. There were no auto focus pentax cameras when these ricoh lenses were common. When pentax designed the af screw system, they designed it to be backward compatible with pentax lenses. They did not design it to be compatible with aftermarket lenses designed for ricoh cameras. It is a only a problem with lenses designed for ricoh cameras (or designed for both). Most can be gotten off with a little work but it seems you got a tough one.
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04-29-2012, 11:47 PM   #19
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Here is a good pic of the screw drive so you know where it is stuck. About 45 degrees counter clockwise from the bottom of the camera you will see a hole with a little pin with a blade at the top of the pin. That is the screw drive where it is stuck. When the camera is set to manual focus, it retracts so you shouldn't be able to cut it. With the camera set to auto focus it pops out and may be cut if you saw that area.

http://a.img-dpreview.com/news/0909/Pentax/Red_front.jpg

05-07-2012, 08:32 PM   #20
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I have been forwarding all the pictures and text, that everyone on this forum has so kindly taken of their valuable time to provide for me, to my nephew, Brian, who is attempting to get the lens off the camera.

On May 2, 2012 5:49 PM, "Karl Myer" <myerk@live.com> wrote:
Brian,
If you would rather not cut the lens I can take it to a camera shop. They might have a very thin saw blade to get in there between lens and camera. Let me know.
Karl

Karl,
That is an extremely thin blade. I was planning to get one, the shop at lehigh doesn't have anything that small. You are welcome to take it to a camera shop if you'd like, but I doubt they will have anything that thin. Unless, of course, they have dealt with this before...
Brian

On May 7, 2012 9:02 PM, "Karl Myer" <myerk@live.com> wrote:
Hi Brian,
Are you having any luck w/ camera?
Karl

Karl,
I have the saw, just need to get into the shop and attach it to a dremel. I'd say tomorrow night or Wednesday. Looks like it'll work just fine.
Brian
05-08-2012, 08:58 AM   #21
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A saw blade?!!!! In a dremel?
You'll definitely have to clean the hell out of that camera inside.
I've seen some lenses that were tough to get off, but not that I had to use a saw blade on.
Hope all turns out well.
05-08-2012, 09:19 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by wildlifephotog Quote
A saw blade?!!!! In a dremel?
You'll definitely have to clean the hell out of that camera inside.
I've seen some lenses that were tough to get off, but not that I had to use a saw blade on.
Hope all turns out well.
The saw blade is paper thin with flat sides and only about 1" in diameter so its only designed to cut on the edge. He is only cutting through a small pin that is probably about 1-2mm in diameter. Based on the location of the pin, hopefully most of it will gt kicked out the side (especially if a low speed is used). I suspect with a little luck and a lot of care taken doing it, very little if any will get inside. You are right though, inspecting and cleaning out the inside might be a good idea.

I suspect that this is the kind of job where you could set the dremel to its lowest speed and tap the power a couple of times, and zip right through that tiny soft pin with little collateral damage or issues). It might be a good idea if he has the person doing for him blow it out before returning or something so its not being moved around with particles inside (and or transport face down so that anything loose in there will hopefully fall out during the agitation of being transported).
05-08-2012, 09:25 AM   #23
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I have that exact lens sitting here. The pin is 1mm in diameter. It sticks up 1.5mm above lens base.
I got it stuck once.
I used a very thin feeler gauge sharpened on one edge like a knife. I was able to lift the pin and turn the lens in about 5 seconds.
The camera has to be in MF mode. The pin is centrally located to where the AF/MF drive cog can't push it up.
I would not risk brass filings getting into camera. They are notoriously difficult to remove.

05-08-2012, 09:27 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by ripit Quote
Alternatively, if you have some automotive feeler gauges, with the camera off and the auto focus switch set to manual, and light pressure turning the lens in to removal direction, try to work one of the thinest feeler gauges under the pin. The pin is stuck about 45 degrees counter clockwise from the bottom center of the camera. The last time it happened to me, I had to mess with it for a while before I got it to pop loose.
This worked for me. My Ricoh lens worked fine with my K1000 but created havoc with my K200D. Be patient, it can take a little fiddling, but it will work. If you are having trouble using the feeler gauge using a saw blade will be a very quick way to ruin your perfectly good camera.

I can't look!!!
05-08-2012, 11:04 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pioneer Quote
This worked for me. My Ricoh lens worked fine with my K1000 but created havoc with my K200D. Be patient, it can take a little fiddling, but it will work. If you are having trouble using the feeler gauge using a saw blade will be a very quick way to ruin your perfectly good camera.

I can't look!!!
I seem to recall another instance where someone could not get a ricoh lens removed no matter what they tried. A camera shop could not get it off by simple means either. If I recall right, the final solution was to dissemble the lens from the front back (I assume till they got access to the back of the ricoh pin so they could retract it). If memory serves, it cost a couple of hundred dollars. That might be the only other alternative if you don't want to risk cutting the pin. A professional cleaning might be an option if its not too expensive but I would at least try to do a bit of cleaning myself.

Just one other thought. If you were to use the dremmel bit on a power drill (for the lower speed) it might minimize contamination. It's not like its a huge object you have to cut through. With a little help from another person, at low cutting speed on a drill, you could have someone holding a damp cloth over the blade (very carefully, these thin blades are very dangerous when they hit flesh) to try and remove particles before they get pulled back into the camera.
05-08-2012, 12:13 PM   #26
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the quality of the advice you are getting for free is approximately what you should expect. I can add my free advice, please dont take any more notice of it than it deserves. DO NOT cut the pin while it is attached, you WILL get brass filings in your camera and you WILL ruin it. The feeler guage and brute force method is your best bet. YMMV
05-08-2012, 07:34 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by keithlester Quote
the quality of the advice you are getting for free is approximately what you should expect. I can add my free advice, please dont take any more notice of it than it deserves. DO NOT cut the pin while it is attached, you WILL get brass filings in your camera and you WILL ruin it. The feeler guage and brute force method is your best bet. YMMV
I personally wouldn't try to cut it except as a last effort. There are other methods that involve much less risk. I would defiantly try for a while with feeler gauges. I might try some bruit force but that can cause damage too. If bruit force causes the pin to pop out fine but if its on the wrong side of the focus screw and breaks/bends the blade on the focus screw you might be in for some repairs. If all else fails then your only choices left might be to cut it or take it to a camera shop to either try some of these methods (perhaps with someone more experienced doing it) or to dissemble the lens from the front. When you have a camera shop doing it unless they get lucky and get it quick, you may wind up with quite a bill. One involves more risk but ones a lot more expensive (unless you damage the camera and have to have repairs anyway).

Personally, were I faced with the same situation, and all other methods had failed, I would try and cut it. I have a lot of metal working experience though and have high confidence that I could do it with low risk of getting metal particles into the camera body. Were a few to get in there, its not like it will suddenly kill the camera. Cleaning it out is an option. Yes there is a risk that it will damage the camera. Keep in mind that you are cutting a tiny pin so there is not going to be much in the way of particles created (if done right). I guess you have to weigh the options and decide which is best for you. If I were not experienced with the tools in question, I might think twice about doing it. The alternative could cost a lot but so could a damaged camera. I guess you have to weigh the options and decide which is best for you.
05-08-2012, 07:44 PM   #28
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Just another thought. It may or may not be too late for the op to make use of this, but another option would be to chuck the blade and mandrel up in a pin vice or tap handle or something and do it by hand. While it might be a little tedious (especially if the pin turns), it could also minimize risk of contamination. You could also try to insert a feeler gauge behind the pin and use masking tape to hold it in place, to seal the gap and reduce the risk of particles getting by. Just a thought.
05-13-2012, 03:39 AM   #29
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The lens has been successfully gotten off of the camera by Brian, my nephew, with no damage to either camera or lens. I don't know the details yet of how he did it, other than that he did cut the lens pin with a very thin saw blade. He called me late Wednesday evening and said he had gotten the lens off and that he would leave camera and lens for me to pick up in a desk drawer of an old desk in the enclosed porch of his apartment. Very early Thursday morning I drove there to pick it up. I was then able, that day, to return the lens to the person at my workplace who had loaned it to me, just in time for a long weekend in which he was planning a trip to his cabin in the woods and would be using the lens.

When I picked it up, camera and lens were attached. I detached them and re-attached a number of times and found that process to work flawlessly. When I powered up the camera with lens attached, it gave me a display screen asking me to enter the focal length of the lens. I had never seen this screen before because my own (kit) zooms are fully automatic. I took a few test pictures and they turned out well.

I expected the lens to need cleaning but it has no sign of debris or dust or fingerprints. There was no visible evidence on the lens mount that anything had been cut - no 'sawed-off' appearance to the pin.

On the camera, with my own kit lens attached, I ran “Dust Alert,” the function that detects dust on the CMOS sensor. You aim the camera at a white wall (or equivalent) with the camera set to this function, trip the shutter, and the display shows any dust particles on the sensor. I had run this function once before, about a year ago, just to learn to use it. That time, it did detect a particle of dust, so I ran the “Dust Removal” function, which removes dust by shaking the CMOS sensor, then ran “Dust Alert” again, and the particle had disappeared. When I ran “Dust Alert” this time - after this lens pin was sawed off - no dust showed, surprisingly, so I did not run the “Dust Removal” function at all.

I haven’t talked to Brian at all since the night before I picked up the camera in his enclosed porch. He was leaving on a business trip that next day. When he gets back, I will find out the details of how he cut the pin and managed to keep everything so clean. I will be using the camera more in the next few days and so any problems should show up when viewing pictures at high magnification on the computer. Plus, tomorrow at work I will talk to the person who loaned me the lens and hopefully he will be able to give a good report on how it performed for him over this weekend.

One thing I want to ask Brian is how much he was helped by all the wonderful advice given to me on Pentax Forums. I was amazed at the quality and great detail of the responses, especially from ripit. Thank you all so very much. I just can't express how much I appreciate your kindness. I forwarded all replies, pictures, and links to Brian as soon as they were posted. It has been a very gratifying introduction for me to the Pentax Forums. And it seems to have led directly to a successful outcome. I can’t tell you how upsetting this was to face the possibility of having my camera ruined, along with a very nice lens belonging to someone else. The timeliness and detail of the responses were very reassuring at that hard time and it was comforting to me that the members here understood and were ready to help.

I will post an update as soon as I am able to talk to Brian about this repair and my friend at work about the lens. Thank you all again so much.

Last edited by Karl Myer; 05-13-2012 at 03:46 AM.
05-13-2012, 09:51 AM   #30
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Good to hear it worked out. I'm guessing you might have already done this but I would carefully inspect the inside of the camera (maybe with flashlight) for any metal particles. If you see any, address the issue before putting the camera to further use.

As far as your friends lens, the ricoh pin is of no use unless he wishes to use it on an old ricoh film camera. I would recommend he check the lens to see if there is a sharp edge from where the pin was cut off or a nub or anything that sticks out. I would think the way it was cut it would be flush but it doesn't hurt to check. If there is, consider removing the pin.
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