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05-01-2012, 11:30 AM   #16
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I have kind of a different take than others on this. For me, there is M mode where I am in complete contro. Over how light or dark the picture comes out, and then there are all other modes where the camera chooses how light or dark to make the pictures. Whether the camera achieves its desired lightness/darkness levels by picking its own shutter speed, aperture, ISO, or any combination of these is immaterial to me - I don't want the camera choosing how light or dark to make the picture, period. If I take two pictures in a row in the same light, I want the same brightness level regardless of whether the person I am shooting is wearing white or black, regarldess of whether the flower is a bright yellow daisy or a deep purple iris, etc.

So to me, whether you use auto ISO or not, whether you use P mode or TAv mode or Av mode or S mode or whatever, doesn't really matter. You've alredy given up control over the single most important aspect of the exposure: overall lightness/darkness. Sure, you can use exposure compensation to influence the results, but influence isn't the same as control.

Now, I don't say to criticize those who don't use M mode full time, but rather, to put the distinctions between the other modes into perspective. They all have one very important thing in common: they all allow the camera to choose the exposure. Once you accept that, you should then ask yourself, what's the next most important thing you can take control of. Personally, I'd say that in "most" cases it is aperture. Sure, you want to have as fast a shutter as you reasonably can in most cases, and as low as an ISO as you can get away with as well, but the camera is not an idiot - it knows these things, too. So except in rare cases like waterfalls where you might be deliberately going for slow shutter speeds effects, I say, if you going to let the camera choose how light/dark the picture is, you might as well let it choose shutter speed and ISO as well. What the camera does not know is what sort of DOF you want.

So if I were to use any auto mode at all, Av with auto ISO would probably be my own choice most of the time. I control aperture, camera controls all else.

05-01-2012, 11:42 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by blackcloudbrew Quote
An important element in all of this is to look at and consider what your P (program) line setting is. This will be the preference that the camera will give metering for, it can be for depth of field, action, MTF (essentially the best choice for the specific lens from the manufacture - if known), and normal whatever that is. The program line setting works for most all metering (P, Av, Tv, etc.) modes and will be affected by things like the ISO setting. Just another thing to learn about!
I don't have the manual with me right now so excuise my follow up question. Does the program line work well with raw format?
05-01-2012, 11:57 AM   #18
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Let me just say once again that this discussion, especially the differing thoughts and approaches is making a dramatic impact on me. Take home message so far is that there are more ways than one. This is especially true when I look at all your galleries. One day, I'll learn to take pics that are as nice.

I will try to do as many of these various approaches and see which ones make most sense to me. I need to stop buying lenses and learn to use the ones I already have.

I can't thank you all enough.

Last edited by Sage97; 05-01-2012 at 12:15 PM.
05-01-2012, 12:49 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sage97 Quote
I don't have the manual with me right now so excuse my follow up question. Does the program line work well with raw format?
The program line with the metering the camera does. Raw format is just the camera storing all the data at the time of capture. Included in that is a jpeg file - what you would view on the LCD and whatever the camera is set for (ISO, exposure, WB, etc.) would be indicated in that jpeg. In simple terms, by varring the program line, you change the first suggestion of the camera as to what the 'programed' exposure should be.

05-01-2012, 04:05 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by blackcloudbrew Quote
The program line with the metering the camera does. Raw format is just the camera storing all the data at the time of capture. Included in that is a jpeg file - what you would view on the LCD and whatever the camera is set for (ISO, exposure, WB, etc.) would be indicated in that jpeg. In simple terms, by varring the program line, you change the first suggestion of the camera as to what the 'programed' exposure should be.
Awesome! Thank you very much. I've learned so much here on this forum than anywhere else.
05-01-2012, 05:10 PM   #21
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You are most welcome. So have I.
05-02-2012, 11:24 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Marc Sabatella Quote
Now, I don't say to criticize those who don't use M mode full time, but rather, to put the distinctions between the other modes into perspective. They all have one very important thing in common: they all allow the camera to choose the exposure. Once you accept that, you should then ask yourself, what's the next most important thing you can take control of. Personally, I'd say that in "most" cases it is aperture.
I would lime to amend that slightly. I'd say it is aperture that is next-most-important *in the cases where anything really matters at all*. But realistically, for most people and most shots, even letting the camera choose aperture is probably just fine modt of the time. So P mode with auto ISO would really be my recommendation, especially on cameras that allow support "hyper program" mode where flipping a dial while in P mode cycles through various aperture possibilities. Plus, of course, the use of exposure compenttion to "influence" (if not actually control) the overall lightness/darkness of the image.

If your camera doesn't support that form of hyper program mode - no way to force a particular aperture while in P mode - them I,d do a quick change to av mode in the cases where you do want cntrol over aperture. You could of course leave it in av mode, but that compels you to make a choice regarding aperture on each and every shot (or, as the philosopher and song say, "if you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice" - namely, to let the last setting ride). And as I said, pretty often there is just no real need for most people to need to be in charge of aperture.
05-02-2012, 11:29 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by nosliwmit Quote
If I had a K5 I'm pretty sure I'd use auto ISO even more than I do now with my K200D...
especially considering that on the K200 (like my K10D) the auto ISO range to be comparable to a max of 6400 on the K5 is something like ISO 800

05-02-2012, 07:11 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
especially considering that on the K200 (like my K10D) the auto ISO range to be comparable to a max of 6400 on the K5 is something like ISO 800
oh yes, coming from the 200 to the K5, it made a difference between night and day with the ISO performance (literally)
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