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05-26-2012, 09:17 AM   #16
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I am trying to buy lenses made when bell bottoms were in fashion....all the japanese names and different mounts and such... Later when my headache goes away I will hit up the 'manual lens' thread and read some more...

I think I read that some A lenses will still meter on my soon to arrive K5... but I am not sure if that's correct. I need to contact a historian....

I think for new people to pentax (like me) having a comprehensive list of manufacturers would at least help...then have a grid of what kind of mounts they are and what that really means... screw, M, A, K so on and so forth...

In reality my question goes a little beyond aperture...but that is the kind of lens I am looking for that will allow that creativeness...

05-26-2012, 09:20 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by alamo5000 Quote
Will a 1.4 aperture produce a sharper image than a 1.8 aperture?
QuoteOriginally posted by alamo5000 Quote
but amongst the 1.? range is there going to be substantial differences in visual quality and effect?
As to effect, yes. The larger aperture will give you shallower depth of field.
As to quality, yes; there will be differences but it has nothing to do aperture. The FA 31Ltd is slower than the 50 1.4 and faster than the 35 2.8 ltd, but is sharper across it's range than either of the other two.

Last edited by Parallax; 05-26-2012 at 09:27 AM.
05-26-2012, 09:20 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by alamo5000 Quote
I want my ability for creative control... but I am essentially trying to figure out what to shop for? If it essentially won't make 'that much difference' in visual distinction then having a 1.2 and 1.4 won't really matter so much... but I am wondering 'where' the differences really start to become apparent....a 1.8 vs a 3.5 is going to be totally different...but amongst the 1.? range is there going to be substantial differences in visual quality and effect? IE comparing a 1.2 to a 1.4 to a 1.8 etc

Creative control is great. Whether outdoors, with any type of lighting, etc...; one can never really have enough lighting - or perhaps enough control over lighting. As for the aperature ranges in general for which you mentioned, yes there will be a noticable difference.It also depends on the lens manufacturer in general. Let me mention a few examples...

Here are two examples of PK mount manual focus lens'(not Pentax label though); but they are not exactly in the aperature range that you mentioned...

Zeiss Wide Angle 28mm f/2 Distagon T* ZK Manual Focus 1486-307

Cost about twelve hundred

Zeiss 25mm f/2.8 ZK Distagon T* Lens for Pentax K-Mount 1486-305

Cost about nine hundred fifty


IF both were in fact the same exact aperature a true creative photographer would notice a difference. But a lens is not just about aperature, it's also about optical quality, cost, even lens size and weight. Otherwise everyone would have a Leica 50mm F0.9 on the end of their camera.

And sure companies such as Zeiss, Pentax, Leica (and any other) could in fact build these lens of about any aperature range, but... Also take a look at the specs of those two lens' mentioed; or any other good aperature lens. If one took that first mentioned Zeiss 28mm f2.0 and ten made it into either an f1.5, or even an f1.2, or .9 (which is possible to do) then imagine the size of the lens and possible image quality; also the cost. Which is the reason that a Leica 50mm f0.9 is about 11k in price; and although it technically fits an M9 - it's not quite an every day and every occassion lens.

to answer more of your questions... In general (depending on the person, but someone with more creativity) one would in fact notice a difference between f1.2 and even f1.4 in the same brand lens with the same focal length. But would the difference really be worth it??
05-26-2012, 09:24 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by RioRico Quote
Somebody here will provide a link to a reference on lens mounts. Here are the basics:

* 39mm screwmount: could be Leica-compatible LTM, or Zenit-compatible M39, or enlarger-lens L39. M39s can be used on Pentax SLRs but avoid these for now.
* M42 screwmount: most Takumars and many many other lenses. An adapter is required. We'll tell you all about adapter pretty soon now.
* M-mount (also K series, marked only as SMC): only mechanical aperture control. You must be in Manual mode to use these. Cheap and fun.
* A-mount: has contacts on the lens base for electric aperture control. Easy to use and more expensive generally.
* AF-mount: these are F- and FA- and DA-series. The DAs are for dSLRs and will vignette on FF film cams. The others work just fine on dSLRs too.

Again, there's much more. This is a start.

Now you are starting to get me somewhere.

The aperture information is also extremely useful everyone... If those lenses are only like $50 each I could get 5 of them... but I don't want to go in blind...

I might have a plan to get a variety of different focal length all with the biggest apertures I can find... 35mm 1.2 50mm 1.2 and so forth...

I don't mind it being manual. In fact I kind of like it being manual, but I do like the metering so I am not taking black (or totally white) pictures...

05-26-2012, 09:36 AM   #20
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Here is my kit-building priority list:

1) Coverage - my Tamron 10-24, DA18-250, and Lil'Bigma DG 170-500 cover a wide range.
2) Speed - my K50/1.2, some 50/1.4s, and f/2 lenses at 24-28-35-58-85mm, do it there.
-- Note: I can't afford the faster 30-35-58-85-135mm lenses, not unless I rob a minimart.
3) Specialty - mirrors, macros, fisheyes (DA10-17, Zenitar 16/2.8), etc for special needs.
4) Character - older slower cheaper lenses just render differently than modern glass.
5) Mania - whatever I can stuff onto the camera: enlarger-projector-copy lenses etc.

I have 50 Fifties. One just ain't enough. The K50/1.2 ain't enough. The planar Yashica ML 50/1.4; closer-focusing Meyer Oreston 50/1.8; beautiful M50/1.7; bokeh-monster CZJ Tessar 50/2.8 (12 iris blades); Macro-Takumar 50/4 (1x); splendid Sears-Tomioka 55/1.4; versatile Petri and Takumar and Mamiya and other 55/1.8s; swirly-bokeh Helios-44 58/2 -- all different brushes for painting different strokes. A carpenter doesn't use just one saw. I don't use just one Fifty.

Last edited by RioRico; 05-26-2012 at 09:44 AM.
05-26-2012, 09:41 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by alamo5000 Quote
Now you are starting to get me somewhere.

The aperture information is also extremely useful everyone... If those lenses are only like $50 each I could get 5 of them... but I don't want to go in blind...

I might have a plan to get a variety of different focal length all with the biggest apertures I can find... 35mm 1.2 50mm 1.2 and so forth...

I don't mind it being manual. In fact I kind of like it being manual, but I do like the metering so I am not taking black (or totally white) pictures...
All Pentax lenses will meter with a K-5. The A series lenses will meter in all modes, the K and M series lenses need to use stop down metering. You have to set Custom menu item 27 "Using Aperture Ring" to '2 Permitted'. You then set the camera to M mode and press the Green Button to stop down and take a meter reading. You can also use the Optical Preview to stop down the aperture and set the exposure manually.
05-26-2012, 09:45 AM   #22
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If you want recommendations, I have a Jena Pancolar 50/1.8 which is epic on my D5000 (don't have Pentax yet) although it can't focus to infinity (but it can on Pentax). I don't think you'll find a 35/1.2. Most really fast lenses are 50s, since they're very cheap to make due to the Double-Gauss design (basically you make a lens, then make an identical one and then plonk the second behind the other in a reversed way Double-Gauss lens - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia).

Cheap-to-mid-priced lenses are usually: 28mm 2.8, 35mm 2.8 or 3.5, 50mm 1.8, 85mm 1.8-2.8 (expensive to mid-priced), 135mm 2.5-3.5 (mid-priced to cheap) and 200mm 2.8-5.6 (expensive to cheap). When you start looking at used lenses (for example on Ebay) you'll soon notice a trend.
05-26-2012, 09:47 AM   #23
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Oh yes, and listen to Rico. He has a copy of most lenses you see on used markets.

Second Oh yes: Macro and specialist lenses tend to be much slower/faster than normal (example: 1.4-2 is sort of normal for a 50, smaller apertures could mean a Macro (or it could mean a rubbish lens...), 1.2 means a lens that is usually best used wide open or slightly stopped down.

05-26-2012, 10:05 AM   #24
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My dad has an old canon A1 with a canon lens with a 1.4 aperture... I went and borrowed that and played with it for a bit... he also has a screw mount vivitar that is 35-105mm F3.5-16.... I assume with a screw mount adapter I can use that lens too... with the right settings....

A little off topic there I know...

But I played with the 1.4 aperture on that 1970's era camera and lens....

I will come back later and continue this discussion because its very helpful.

A parting question before I go kayaking--- how can I tell if the lens I am looking at is a A or an M? The most obvious thought would be that it has an "A" stamped on the aperture ring...

I would prefer not to use adapters but I will probably get one anyway...

It sounds like I am looking for an A series lens or variety of lenses...with those everything is normal on the K-5 except that I must focus manually... correct?

Now I need to identify some A series lenses with good apertures and focal lengths....

Please bear in mind that I have not even gotten my camera yet...but I spent 6 months researching before I bought anything. My camera and lenses will be delivered on tuesday. I have yet to snap a single photo with a K-5...

I deliberately chose pentax though because of the older cheaper lens capability... the built in shake reduction (regardless of lens)...and specifically because it will be manual if I want it to be manual.

From the sounds of it though the A series is right on because while I do want manual, if I flip over and switch some ISO setting I don't want to have to dig through menus changing up this or that...

Any recommendations for cheaper but still good lenses that fit my parameters 35mm 50mm and so forth with better F capabilities 1.2, 1.4 etc would be good.I don't have a clue on brand names.
05-26-2012, 10:13 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by RioRico Quote
Here is my kit-building priority list:

1) Coverage - my Tamron 10-24, DA18-250, and Lil'Bigma DG 170-500 cover a wide range.
2) Speed - my K50/1.2, some 50/1.4s, and f/2 lenses at 24-28-35-58-85mm, do it there.
-- Note: I can't afford the faster 30-35-58-85-135mm lenses, not unless I rob a minimart.
3) Specialty - mirrors, macros, fisheyes (DA10-17, Zenitar 16/2.8), etc for special needs.
4) Character - older slower cheaper lenses just render differently than modern glass.
5) Mania - whatever I can stuff onto the camera: enlarger-projector-copy lenses etc.

I have 50 Fifties. One just ain't enough. The K50/1.2 ain't enough. The planar Yashica ML 50/1.4; closer-focusing Meyer Oreston 50/1.8; beautiful M50/1.7; bokeh-monster CZJ Tessar 50/2.8 (12 iris blades); Macro-Takumar 50/4 (1x); splendid Sears-Tomioka 55/1.4; versatile Petri and Takumar and Mamiya and other 55/1.8s; swirly-bokeh Helios-44 58/2 -- all different brushes for painting different strokes. A carpenter doesn't use just one saw. I don't use just one Fifty.

WOW.

I will be back with you for sure.

About how much do those speed lenses run price wise??? I might get a few myself. You sound like you are doing what I want to do.

I have an additional lens though... sigma 150-500mm... I want to reach out and take some far away shots and/or take some sports shots with it.

But for the general purpose stuff you sound like the man to talk to...I am going to have to start somewhere but I just don't know where.

Anything 28mm on up to say 85mm with bigger apertures is where I am going with all this... A series please

The M series I would like to test it out on the camera first to see if I really would have to 'dig through menus' if I change my ISO...the A series sounds a lot more easy though...
05-26-2012, 10:29 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by alamo5000 Quote
he also has a screw mount vivitar that is 35-105mm F3.5-16.... I assume with a screw mount adapter I can use that lens too... with the right settings....
If the Vivitar fits the Canon, then it's probably a T-mount and needs a safe cheap T2-PK adapter. Beware: T-mount and M42 are both 42mm threads but with different pitches, so it's easy to jam the wrong adapter onto a lens. Proceed gently.

QuoteQuote:
A parting question before I go kayaking--- how can I tell if the lens I am looking at is a A or an M? The most obvious thought would be that it has an "A" stamped on the aperture ring...
That's the dead give-away! It also has contacts on the lens base (which aren't always shown in eBay photos). It might be marked P or A(P) in which case it's Ricoh-compatible -- and might have the dreaded Ricoh pin. Easily removed, but be aware of it, because if not removed, it can jam on your camera.

QuoteQuote:
I would prefer not to use adapters but I will probably get one anyway...
Are many many beautiful (and often cheap) screwmount lenses, so adapters are required. I have a few dozen. Adapters, that is. Here are the main types:

* Official Pentax M42-PK -- anyone with M42 lenses should own just one of these. Safe, tedious, not always cheap, but reliable. Has a narrow flange; lenses can reach infinity focus.
* Cheap clones of the Official Pentax (might be marked Bower or Fotodiox etc) -- good, but remove the screw and clip or YOU WILL GO APESH!T! I keep these mounted on dozens of M42 lenses. As with the Official Pentax, will focus to infinity.
* Wide-flange no-infinity-focus adapters -- cheap and safe and fine with 1) old telephotos that normally focus PAST infinity, and 2) macro and close-up and portrait work where infinity doesn't matter. Also useful for mounting weird glass.

QuoteQuote:
It sounds like I am looking for an A series lens or variety of lenses...with those everything is normal on the K-5 except that I must focus manually... correct?
Everything but AF, correct. But many great lenses aren't available as A-types. And some A-series lenses have cheaper builds than their M42 or K or M counterparts. Using M-types may be only slightly less convenient than A-types.

QuoteQuote:
Now I need to identify some A series lenses with good apertures and focal lengths....
See the lens review database.

QuoteQuote:
Any recommendations for cheaper but still good lenses that fit my parameters 35mm 50mm and so forth with better F capabilities 1.2, 1.4 etc would be good.I don't have a clue on brand names.
Others have their own favorites. I'll recommend (because I have and know them) A-type primes branded Sears, Focal, Ricoh|Rikenon, Toyo|TOU Five-Star -- and zooms branded Promaster|Tamron, Tokina, Vivitar, and Sears. These aren't super-fast, mostly because I'm cheap. When I have more time, I'll list my faves.
05-26-2012, 10:59 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by alamo5000 Quote
About how much do those speed lenses run price wise??? I might get a few myself.
Price depends on speed and luck. One week I got lucky on eBay with 28s: I got a Vivitar-Kiron 28/2.5 for US$20 shipped, then a Tamron 28/2.5 for US$4, then the great Vivitar-Komine 28/2 CFWA for US$18. That's my most-used MF prime. The Vivitar-Kiron 24/2 in PK-M... well, I've spent about US$250 on a couple copies and I still have iris problems. The W-Komura 25/2.5 was US$25 at an antique shop; the Nikkor-O 35/2 (modded for PK) was US$50 on eBay. The planar Yashica ML 50/1.4 (also modded) was US$10. I got two Sears-Tomioka 55/1.4s, one for US$2.25, the other for 10x as much. The Helios-44 58/2 was about US$25. The Jupiter-9 85/2 was US$50; a Nikkor 85/2 (also modded) was US$9. Many of those cost rather more now. But modding Yashica C/Y and Olympus OM and Nikkor lenses is no big deal, and some great glass is available pretty cheap.

QuoteQuote:
Anything 28mm on up to say 85mm with bigger apertures is where I am going with all this... A series please
My only A-types are fine, VERY sharp, but nothing faster than f/2.8:
Toyo Five Star 28/2.8; Focal 135/2.8; Vivitar-Cosina Series 1 19-35/3.5-4.5; Vivitar-Komine Series 1 (v3) 70-210/2.8-4; Sears-Samyang 70-210/4 and 80-200/4; Promaster-Tamron 60-300/4-5.6; also a Takumar-A 70-200/4 with decent optics but weak coatings
I don't have faster A-types because I can't afford them. See the lens database. Note that faster longer MF lenses can be tricky to use because of their very thin DOF.

QuoteQuote:
The M series I would like to test it out on the camera first to see if I really would have to 'dig through menus' if I change my ISO...the A series sounds a lot more easy though...
I don't know about the K5, but I do very little menu-diving on my K20D. I set the auto-ISO range; hold down OK and spin the front dial to set a specific ISO; or hold down OK and the Green button to return to auto-ISO. The main advantages of A-types are 1) all auto modes are available, and 2) pTTL flash can be used.

In any Auto mode, non-A and non-AF lenses default to Av, and M-types normally shoot wide-open. For stop-down metering and shooting use M(anual) mode and the Green button. I have a trick with M-types. On my K20D mode dial, TAv is right next to M. So I may mount my K50/1.2, set the aperture to f/5.6 and the mode to TAv. Now it shoots in Av mode wide-open. If I want more DOF, I'll just nudge the mode to M and hit the Green button, so it stops down to f/5.6 -- WITHOUT my having to fiddle with the aperture ring!

Are other lens types: presets and no-sets. A no-set may be a mirror or adapted lens with no iris, just a fixed aperture. With many adapted|modded lenses, I just manually set the aperture and shoot with no stop-down automation. And presets have two aperture rings: set one to the tightest aperture you may use, and spin the other to compose and shoot. Presets often have many iris blades and give wonderful bokeh.

Last edited by RioRico; 05-26-2012 at 03:44 PM.
05-26-2012, 11:37 AM   #28
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There isn't any menu diving for ISO on a K-5. You just hit the ISO button to switch between ISO and shutter speed. You use the front e-dial for shutter speed and the rear e-dial for ISO. Or you can change those around.
05-26-2012, 03:32 PM   #29
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Try one of these (especially the first one):

1. Black & White Photography - Henry Horenstein
2. Color Photography - Henry Horenstein
3. Digital Photography - Henry Horenstein

You cannot beat #1 to understand basic concepts
05-26-2012, 05:08 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by alamo5000 Quote
WOW.

I will be back with you for sure.

About how much do those speed lenses run price wise??? I might get a few myself. You sound like you are doing what I want to do.

I have an additional lens though... sigma 150-500mm... I want to reach out and take some far away shots and/or take some sports shots with it.

But for the general purpose stuff you sound like the man to talk to...I am going to have to start somewhere but I just don't know where.

Anything 28mm on up to say 85mm with bigger apertures is where I am going with all this... A serieplease
s
The M series I would like to test it out on the camera first to see if I really would have to 'dig through menus' if I change my ISO...the A series sounds a lot more easy though...
You do need to understand that the "cheap older Pentax lens" phenomena is to some extent a relic of the past. Pentax lagged in digital cameras for some years, but prices seemed to rebound considerably as pentax digital caught on (even to the limited extent it has vs. Canikon.) It's not impossible to find a great buy, but you can spend over a thousand dollars just building a collection of "old" 50s. Once you get past ubiquitous but uninspiring lenses like the 50/2M (not horrible, just not a favorite with most users), prices tend to increase fast, unless you patiently hunt out a bargain from someone who may not realize the market price of what they're selling.

Paul
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