help reqd for Low light Party photography!

ajaya · 10-24-2012, 10:41 PM

Hello all

yesterday i took some picture of a Indoor party i have used K-R + Tamron 28-70mm AF 2.8 lens but still not able to get good results with f4 and above without flash. any suggestion which is the better Settings to use for lowlight moving subjects ? . i am able to shoot good images on 2.8 but if i want f5 or above then which is the recommended settings ?

Please help me.

Regards,
Aj

elliott · 10-24-2012, 11:12 PM

What was your ISO?

ajaya · 10-24-2012, 11:22 PM

Iso 1600

SyncGuy · 10-24-2012, 11:33 PM

Hmm....

From what i can imagine, the only way is to use a much higher ISO.. Maybe ISO3200 to compensate for the decreased aperture value..

The basic exposure triangle must be properly understood here..

So, for e.g:

You know that you get good exposure with:
f/2.8
ISO 1600
1/30 *for example*

To get the same exposure again with f/4:
f/4
ISO 3200
1/30

Or you can change around with other value.
f/4
ISO 1600
1/15

Know what i mean?

Last edited by SyncGuy; 10-25-2012 at 02:07 AM.

kaiserz · 10-25-2012, 12:14 AM - **1 Like**

What do you mean by good results? any sample pictures?

There's only so much you can do to manipulate the Exposure Triangle. And I have to tell you shooting low light + moving subject is going to be really hard, you at least would want to use a decent shutter speed to freeze action, but w/o decent light that's going to be really hard. (I don't even try to shoot moving targets at low light unless I'm going to be panning.) The goal is to get a decent shutter speed to eliminate blurry images.

Here are some tips the might be able to help.
#1 Use a wide focal length. The wider the focal length the less blur you'll get from hand holding your camera. The wider the easier to stabilize.
#2 Use a wide focal length. The wider the FL the less DOF you have to deal with, meaning at 15mm f4 you can have more stuff in focus vs 75mm at f4 (This can be to you advantage or disadvantage)
#3 Use High ISO. you can squeeze a faster shutter speed and thus a bigger chance of eliminating motion blur.
#4 Use wide aperture, the wider the aperture the more light you can get. the more light = more shutter speed. But I'm pretty sure you know that the wider your aperture, the more DOF comes in to play.
#5 Exposure compensation at -1 stop. shoot raw and then recover the image to its proper exposure. the goal here once again is to squeeze more shutter speed out of the available light.

I do believe you can push the K-r's ISO setting to 6400 and get okay quality images.
And if you incorporate the settings discussed here https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/106600-k-7-high-iso-success-4.html I'm pretty sure you can get decent results from the Kr's high ISO capabilities.

Good luck

Tonto · 10-25-2012, 01:10 AM

Great tips here- wide shots are your friends, also make the most use of ANY light- I have a Kx so not quite the luxury of high ISO just got a big flash instead, just heaps more consistant results although a bigger setup-I like it more actually I get more people wanting to pose for shots as I look more 'pro' lol

ajaya · 10-25-2012, 02:01 AM

Originally posted by kaiserz

What do you mean by good results? any sample pictures?

There's only so much you can do to manipulate the Exposure Triangle. And I have to tell you shooting low light + moving subject is going to be really hard, you at least would want to use a decent shutter speed to freeze action, but w/o decent light that's going to be really hard. (I don't even try to shoot moving targets at low light unless I'm going to be panning.) The goal is to get a decent shutter speed to eliminate blurry images.

Here are some tips the might be able to help.
#1 Use a wide focal length. The wider the focal length the less blur you'll get from hand holding your camera. The wider the easier to stabilize.
#2 Use a wide focal length. The wider the FL the less DOF you have to deal with, meaning at 15mm f4 you can have more stuff in focus vs 75mm at f4 (This can be to you advantage or disadvantage)
#3 Use High ISO. you can squeeze a faster shutter speed and thus a bigger chance of eliminating motion blur.
#4 Use wide aperture, the wider the aperture the more light you can get. the more light = more shutter speed. But I'm pretty sure you know that the wider your aperture, the more DOF comes in to play.
#5 Exposure compensation at -1 stop. shoot raw and then recover the image to its proper exposure. the goal here once again is to squeeze more shutter speed out of the available light.

I do believe you can push the K-r's ISO setting to 6400 and get okay quality images.
And if you incorporate the settings discussed here https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/106600-k-7-high-iso-success-4.html I'm pretty sure you can get decent results from the Kr's high ISO capabilities.

Good luck

i tried with SCN MODE Where the camera will set ISO to 6400 but i was worried i will loose the clarity. i will try this setting this sunday and let you know the results. thanks

ajaya · 10-25-2012, 02:08 AM

Originally posted by Tonto

Great tips here- wide shots are your friends, also make the most use of ANY light- I have a Kx so not quite the luxury of high ISO just got a big flash instead, just heaps more consistant results although a bigger setup-I like it more actually I get more people wanting to pose for shots as I look more 'pro' lol

i dont have an external flash i tried most of the shots with flash but the results are not so pleasing for me.

SyncGuy · 10-25-2012, 02:10 AM

Originally posted by ajaya

i dont have an external flash i tried most of the shots with flash but the results are not so pleasing for me.

Are you using on-board flash?

If you are, then kindly switch over to manual/M mode...

Adjust exposure to get -2 or -1 on the camera, then shoot....

If subject is too bright, use the flash EV compensation and change it's compensation value accordingly..

Basically, expose for the image/ambient, then use flash to expose for the subject...

Tonto · 10-25-2012, 02:30 AM

I bounce the flash or use a small softbox (external flash obviously) - the onboard flash 'can' be used with the advice from SyncGuy- I found a well exposed flash shot will beat a flat ISO shot everytime as it emphasizes the subjects- rear curtain sync makes for some cool shots too.

ajaya · 10-25-2012, 02:50 AM

Originally posted by SyncGuy

Are you using on-board flash?

If you are, then kindly switch over to manual/M mode...

Adjust exposure to get -2 or -1 on the camera, then shoot....

If subject is too bright, use the flash EV compensation and change it's compensation value accordingly..

Basically, expose for the image/ambient, then use flash to expose for the subject...

yes i was using built in flash with exposure +1 on AV mode

ok i will try to reduce and see how it will change the Image !
Thanks for the tip.

Sandy Hancock · 10-25-2012, 02:55 AM

If light is low, compromises need to made somewhere. If you're shooting moving subjects you need either wide open aperture or high ISO. If your current combination isn't cutting it you need a more capable sensor (K-5, K-30, K-01) or faster lenses (FA50/1.4 is one of the cheaper options). Or both.

The other option is to invest in a decent swivel/bounce flash and learn how to get the best out of it.

SyncGuy · 10-25-2012, 03:08 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by ajaya

yes i was using built in flash with exposure +1 on AV mode

ok i will try to reduce and see how it will change the Image !
Thanks for the tip.

Hmm.... I'm thinking that you're getting confused on the +1 EV compensation and AV mode.

On AV mode, when you dial in +1 EV compensation, it means you are requesting for +1 stop of ambient exposure.

What i mean for the EV compensation is for flash. Look at your Kr and its 4-way button. The bottom one is for flash.
Select that and use the dial to see that the flash EV compensation will be changed within the range of -2 to +1.

That's why i advised you to shoot in manual.
When using flash, you are basically required to expose for TWO separate things.

1)Ambient: General exposure of the picture
2)Subject: Exposure of the subject with flash here

Therefore, have a practice now.

1) Switch to M mode and meter for a scene, including subject smack in the center. (make sure it meters 0.0)
2) Use flash and set the flash EV compensation to 0.0
3) take a picture

Then now,
1a) adjust in step 1 and expose the same scene with the EV metering showing -1.0
2a) dial in FLASH EV compensation to +1.0
3a) take a picture

You will notice now that the subject will be brighter than the background. You can practice outside and play around with the two DIFFERENT EV compensation; flash EV compensation for subject, and general EV compensation for ambient.
Adjust to suit to taste.
Get what i mean?

ajaya · 10-25-2012, 03:12 AM

Originally posted by SyncGuy

Hmm.... I'm thinking that you're getting confused on the +1 EV compensation and AV mode.

On AV mode, when you dial in +1 EV compensation, it means you are requesting for +1 stop of ambient exposure.

What i mean for the EV compensation is for flash. Look at your Kr and its 4-way button. The bottom one is for flash.
Select that and use the dial to see that the flash EV compensation will be changed within the range of -2 to +1.

That's why i advised you to shoot in manual.
When using flash, you are basically required to expose for TWO separate things.

1)Ambient: General exposure of the picture
2)Subject: Exposure of the subject with flash here

Therefore, have a practice now.

1) Switch to M mode and meter for a scene, including subject smack in the center. (make sure it meters 0.0)
2) Use flash and set the flash EV compensation to 0.0
3) take a picture

Then now,
1a) adjust in step 1 and expose the same scene with the EV metering showing -1.0
2a) dial in FLASH EV compensation to +1.0
3a) take a picture

You will notice now that the subject will be brighter than the background. You can practice outside and play around with the two DIFFERENT EV compensation; flash EV compensation for subject, and general EV compensation for ambient.
Adjust to suit to taste.
Get what i mean?

yep i got it.i haven't changed the FLASH EV compensation

. Now i am clear what to do. thanks for the details SyncGuy

SyncGuy · 10-25-2012, 03:18 AM

Originally posted by ajaya

yep i got it.i haven't changed the FLASH EV compensation

. Now i am clear what to do. thanks for the details SyncGuy

No problem... I, myself, had a headache from learning it initially... LoL!
Do remember though that the onboard flash has it's limitation, like if the ambient is too bright, or if the subject is too near..
Don't go smashing your camera onto the floor in frustration.. LOL!

A *general* guideline:
Start off with underexposing the ambient exposure by -1.0 and use the flash with it's EV compensation to make up for the subject's exposure.

Do try to recognize and understand each equipment's limitations.

10-25-2012, 03:12 AM	#14
ajaya Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bangalore Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 150 Original Poster	Originally posted by SyncGuy Hmm.... I'm thinking that you're getting confused on the +1 EV compensation and AV mode. On AV mode, when you dial in +1 EV compensation, it means you are requesting for +1 stop of ambient exposure. What i mean for the EV compensation is for flash. Look at your Kr and its 4-way button. The bottom one is for flash. Select that and use the dial to see that the flash EV compensation will be changed within the range of -2 to +1. That's why i advised you to shoot in manual. When using flash, you are basically required to expose for TWO separate things. 1)Ambient: General exposure of the picture 2)Subject: Exposure of the subject with flash here Therefore, have a practice now. 1) Switch to M mode and meter for a scene, including subject smack in the center. (make sure it meters 0.0) 2) Use flash and set the flash EV compensation to 0.0 3) take a picture Then now, 1a) adjust in step 1 and expose the same scene with the EV metering showing -1.0 2a) dial in FLASH EV compensation to +1.0 3a) take a picture You will notice now that the subject will be brighter than the background. You can practice outside and play around with the two DIFFERENT EV compensation; flash EV compensation for subject, and general EV compensation for ambient. Adjust to suit to taste. Get what i mean? yep i got it.i haven't changed the FLASH EV compensation. Now i am clear what to do. thanks for the details SyncGuy

10-25-2012, 03:18 AM	#15
SyncGuy Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 821	Originally posted by ajaya yep i got it.i haven't changed the FLASH EV compensation. Now i am clear what to do. thanks for the details SyncGuy No problem... I, myself, had a headache from learning it initially... LoL! Do remember though that the onboard flash has it's limitation, like if the ambient is too bright, or if the subject is too near.. Don't go smashing your camera onto the floor in frustration.. LOL! A general guideline: Start off with underexposing the ambient exposure by -1.0 and use the flash with it's EV compensation to make up for the subject's exposure. Do try to recognize and understand each equipment's limitations.

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10-24-2012, 10:41 PM	#1
ajaya Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bangalore Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 150	help reqd for Low light Party photography! Hello all yesterday i took some picture of a Indoor party i have used K-R + Tamron 28-70mm AF 2.8 lens but still not able to get good results with f4 and above without flash. any suggestion which is the better Settings to use for lowlight moving subjects ? . i am able to shoot good images on 2.8 but if i want f5 or above then which is the recommended settings ? Please help me. Regards, Aj

10-24-2012, 11:12 PM	#2
elliott Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: North Carolina Photos: Albums Posts: 1,720	What was your ISO?

10-24-2012, 11:22 PM	#3
ajaya Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bangalore Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 150 Original Poster	Iso 1600

10-24-2012, 11:33 PM	#4
SyncGuy Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 821	Hmm.... From what i can imagine, the only way is to use a much higher ISO.. Maybe ISO3200 to compensate for the decreased aperture value.. The basic exposure triangle must be properly understood here.. So, for e.g: You know that you get good exposure with: f/2.8 ISO 1600 1/30 for example To get the same exposure again with f/4: f/4 ISO 3200 1/30 Or you can change around with other value. f/4 ISO 1600 1/15 Know what i mean? Last edited by SyncGuy; 10-25-2012 at 02:07 AM.

10-25-2012, 12:14 AM - 1 Like	#5
kaiserz Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: NoVa The "burg" Photos: Gallery Posts: 899	What do you mean by good results? any sample pictures? There's only so much you can do to manipulate the Exposure Triangle. And I have to tell you shooting low light + moving subject is going to be really hard, you at least would want to use a decent shutter speed to freeze action, but w/o decent light that's going to be really hard. (I don't even try to shoot moving targets at low light unless I'm going to be panning.) The goal is to get a decent shutter speed to eliminate blurry images. Here are some tips the might be able to help. #1 Use a wide focal length. The wider the focal length the less blur you'll get from hand holding your camera. The wider the easier to stabilize. #2 Use a wide focal length. The wider the FL the less DOF you have to deal with, meaning at 15mm f4 you can have more stuff in focus vs 75mm at f4 (This can be to you advantage or disadvantage) #3 Use High ISO. you can squeeze a faster shutter speed and thus a bigger chance of eliminating motion blur. #4 Use wide aperture, the wider the aperture the more light you can get. the more light = more shutter speed. But I'm pretty sure you know that the wider your aperture, the more DOF comes in to play. #5 Exposure compensation at -1 stop. shoot raw and then recover the image to its proper exposure. the goal here once again is to squeeze more shutter speed out of the available light. I do believe you can push the K-r's ISO setting to 6400 and get okay quality images. And if you incorporate the settings discussed here https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/106600-k-7-high-iso-success-4.html I'm pretty sure you can get decent results from the Kr's high ISO capabilities. Good luck

10-25-2012, 01:10 AM	#6
Tonto Inactive Account Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Wellington Posts: 969	Great tips here- wide shots are your friends, also make the most use of ANY light- I have a Kx so not quite the luxury of high ISO just got a big flash instead, just heaps more consistant results although a bigger setup-I like it more actually I get more people wanting to pose for shots as I look more 'pro' lol

10-25-2012, 02:01 AM	#7
ajaya Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bangalore Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 150 Original Poster	Originally posted by kaiserz What do you mean by good results? any sample pictures? There's only so much you can do to manipulate the Exposure Triangle. And I have to tell you shooting low light + moving subject is going to be really hard, you at least would want to use a decent shutter speed to freeze action, but w/o decent light that's going to be really hard. (I don't even try to shoot moving targets at low light unless I'm going to be panning.) The goal is to get a decent shutter speed to eliminate blurry images. Here are some tips the might be able to help. #1 Use a wide focal length. The wider the focal length the less blur you'll get from hand holding your camera. The wider the easier to stabilize. #2 Use a wide focal length. The wider the FL the less DOF you have to deal with, meaning at 15mm f4 you can have more stuff in focus vs 75mm at f4 (This can be to you advantage or disadvantage) #3 Use High ISO. you can squeeze a faster shutter speed and thus a bigger chance of eliminating motion blur. #4 Use wide aperture, the wider the aperture the more light you can get. the more light = more shutter speed. But I'm pretty sure you know that the wider your aperture, the more DOF comes in to play. #5 Exposure compensation at -1 stop. shoot raw and then recover the image to its proper exposure. the goal here once again is to squeeze more shutter speed out of the available light. I do believe you can push the K-r's ISO setting to 6400 and get okay quality images. And if you incorporate the settings discussed here https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/106600-k-7-high-iso-success-4.html I'm pretty sure you can get decent results from the Kr's high ISO capabilities. Good luck i tried with SCN MODE Where the camera will set ISO to 6400 but i was worried i will loose the clarity. i will try this setting this sunday and let you know the results. thanks

10-25-2012, 02:08 AM	#8
ajaya Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bangalore Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 150 Original Poster	Originally posted by Tonto Great tips here- wide shots are your friends, also make the most use of ANY light- I have a Kx so not quite the luxury of high ISO just got a big flash instead, just heaps more consistant results although a bigger setup-I like it more actually I get more people wanting to pose for shots as I look more 'pro' lol i dont have an external flash i tried most of the shots with flash but the results are not so pleasing for me.

10-25-2012, 02:10 AM	#9
SyncGuy Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 821	Originally posted by ajaya i dont have an external flash i tried most of the shots with flash but the results are not so pleasing for me. Are you using on-board flash? If you are, then kindly switch over to manual/M mode... Adjust exposure to get -2 or -1 on the camera, then shoot.... If subject is too bright, use the flash EV compensation and change it's compensation value accordingly.. Basically, expose for the image/ambient, then use flash to expose for the subject...

10-25-2012, 02:30 AM	#10
Tonto Inactive Account Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Wellington Posts: 969	I bounce the flash or use a small softbox (external flash obviously) - the onboard flash 'can' be used with the advice from SyncGuy- I found a well exposed flash shot will beat a flat ISO shot everytime as it emphasizes the subjects- rear curtain sync makes for some cool shots too.

10-25-2012, 02:50 AM	#11
ajaya Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bangalore Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 150 Original Poster	Originally posted by SyncGuy Are you using on-board flash? If you are, then kindly switch over to manual/M mode... Adjust exposure to get -2 or -1 on the camera, then shoot.... If subject is too bright, use the flash EV compensation and change it's compensation value accordingly.. Basically, expose for the image/ambient, then use flash to expose for the subject... yes i was using built in flash with exposure +1 on AV mode ok i will try to reduce and see how it will change the Image ! Thanks for the tip.

10-25-2012, 02:55 AM	#12
Sandy Hancock Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Adelaide Hills, South Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,272	If light is low, compromises need to made somewhere. If you're shooting moving subjects you need either wide open aperture or high ISO. If your current combination isn't cutting it you need a more capable sensor (K-5, K-30, K-01) or faster lenses (FA50/1.4 is one of the cheaper options). Or both. The other option is to invest in a decent swivel/bounce flash and learn how to get the best out of it.

10-25-2012, 03:08 AM - 1 Like	#13
SyncGuy Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 821	Originally posted by ajaya yes i was using built in flash with exposure +1 on AV mode ok i will try to reduce and see how it will change the Image ! Thanks for the tip. Hmm.... I'm thinking that you're getting confused on the +1 EV compensation and AV mode. On AV mode, when you dial in +1 EV compensation, it means you are requesting for +1 stop of ambient exposure. What i mean for the EV compensation is for flash. Look at your Kr and its 4-way button. The bottom one is for flash. Select that and use the dial to see that the flash EV compensation will be changed within the range of -2 to +1. That's why i advised you to shoot in manual. When using flash, you are basically required to expose for TWO separate things. 1)Ambient: General exposure of the picture 2)Subject: Exposure of the subject with flash here Therefore, have a practice now. 1) Switch to M mode and meter for a scene, including subject smack in the center. (make sure it meters 0.0) 2) Use flash and set the flash EV compensation to 0.0 3) take a picture Then now, 1a) adjust in step 1 and expose the same scene with the EV metering showing -1.0 2a) dial in FLASH EV compensation to +1.0 3a) take a picture You will notice now that the subject will be brighter than the background. You can practice outside and play around with the two DIFFERENT EV compensation; flash EV compensation for subject, and general EV compensation for ambient. Adjust to suit to taste. Get what i mean?