Just bought a hotshoe flash.....now what?

slr_neophyte · 12-18-2012, 04:41 AM

So, it's been recommended that I get a flash & a faster prime lens with a wide angle. The lens is going to have to wait as I'm a little low on cash at the moment, and the one I've got my eye on is that 31mm F1.8 Limited. The recommendations came about as a result of a recent posting about how to get decent indoor shots with my kit lens (18-55mm) in low light situations. I hate using a flash, but I guess I need to learn now to use one properly - that's where your replies to this post will come in handy.

I just bought a hotshoe flash - probably an unknown name to many as it was purchased in China. It doesn't swivel, but it does tilt up and down - so I can bounce it. It's got several modes and settings, of which I have no idea what most of them are for. Here's where I need some general info. The instructions have been translated from Chinese into English - so they're not the easiest to fully comprehend.

Basically, I'd like a brief description / summary of how to use of the following:

1. Flash ratio output. What is it? I can go up and down between the following settings:
1/1, 1/1-0.3, 1/1-0.7, 1/2, 1/2-0.3........1/128 - what do all these numbers mean, and how do I use them? Are they
similar to EV compensation steps?

2. I have two modes: <M> and <MULTI> - I'm not sure what they're for either, or what the difference is.

3. It also has a stroboscopic flash function, and a wireless slave function - both of which I have some minute idea of what
they're for and how to use them - so I don't really need feedback on this one.

Looking forward to hear from the community.....and thanks in advance!

photolady95 · 12-18-2012, 05:06 AM

Originally posted by slr_neophyte

probably an unknown name to many

People need to know which brand it is to answer your questions.

elliott · 12-18-2012, 05:42 AM

It sounds like a full manual flash, so you'll have to either set the power with the guide number formula (hopefully they list accurate GNs in the manual) or just go by trial and error.

klkitchens · 12-18-2012, 05:55 AM

Originally posted by slr_neophyte

So, it's been recommended that I get a flash & a faster prime lens with a wide angle. The lens is going to have to wait as I'm a little low on cash at the moment, and the one I've got my eye on is that 31mm F1.8 Limited. The recommendations came about as a result of a recent posting about how to get decent indoor shots with my kit lens (18-55mm) in low light situations. I hate using a flash, but I guess I need to learn now to use one properly - that's where your replies to this post will come in handy.

I just bought a hotshoe flash - probably an unknown name to many as it was purchased in China. It doesn't swivel, but it does tilt up and down - so I can bounce it. It's got several modes and settings, of which I have no idea what most of them are for. Here's where I need some general info. The instructions have been translated from Chinese into English - so they're not the easiest to fully comprehend.

Basically, I'd like a brief description / summary of how to use of the following:

1. Flash ratio output. What is it? I can go up and down between the following settings:
1/1, 1/1-0.3, 1/1-0.7, 1/2, 1/2-0.3........1/128 - what do all these numbers mean, and how do I use them? Are they
similar to EV compensation steps?

2. I have two modes: <M> and <MULTI> - I'm not sure what they're for either, or what the difference is.

3. It also has a stroboscopic flash function, and a wireless slave function - both of which I have some minute idea of what
they're for and how to use them - so I don't really need feedback on this one.

Looking forward to hear from the community.....and thanks in advance!

Step #1. Take it off the hot shoe

Pablom · 12-18-2012, 06:00 AM

1- 1/1 means full power, 1/2 is half power and any other fraction means that fraction of full output. how much is full power? check the manual.

2- Looks like it is full manual only, but the second mode might mean an auto mode (not likely for a new flash - check the front of the flash for a sensor) or if you're really lucky P-TTL, in the latter case just try it out with your camera, you'll know whether it works.

3- don't need feedback so you'll not get any.

Don't forget to bounce!

ihasa · 12-18-2012, 06:16 AM

"What now?"

Experimentation! Try these settings. Camera in M mode. ISO 200. Shutter speed 1/60. Aperture f5.6. Flash on full power, tilted to the ceiling. Too dark? Increase aperture or ISO... etc.

**rbefly** · 12-18-2012, 08:11 AM

Hello sir_neophyte,
Good to hear that you took our advice, a flash will serve you well in several different areas of photography. The most obvious is, of course what you mentioned, dimly-lit or indoor group photos. But it's also great for portraits, macro, and "fill flash" is good for situations where the subject is partly-lit by daylight, but some parts (like the face) is in shadow. Fill flash or partial-power flash can even out the lighting.
But first, you have to get used to using it. Just leave yourself plenty of time to test it, and keep notes on settings, distance, etc. Your first set of batteries will be used up quickly, but that's a small price to pay.
Let's clear up the "Bounce" feature, which is why most flashes have the tilt option.
When you face a subject and fire the flash directly at them, the flash (usually) overpowers all other light and gives the subject the classic "Deer in the headlights" (think about it!) look. It flattens their features, throws deep shadows directly behind them (like Film Noir) and is generally considered the least flattering use of light. It's called "Direct Frontal Light". Avoid it if you can.
Instead, tilt the flash head up about 45 degrees, so the light bounces off the ceiling and back down for a more indirect lighting angle. Of course, the exact angle will vary, depending on the subject distance from the camera and the height (and color) of the ceiling.
Another use of tilt is to angle the flash head up and use a "Bounce Card" to bring it back down. Many newer flashes have the card built right into the front of the flash, you just pull it out. If not, a plain white card rubber-banded to the top/front of the flash works fine.
If you can talk a friend into modeling for you, try different power settings and distances. If you can't get a suitable model, there's another solution; A styrofoam "Head", the kind used to display wigs, necklaces, sunglasses, etc. I found a used one in a thrift store for $3.00 US. Set it up in a room, turn off all the lights and blast away! Try full frontal light first, to see how it looks. Now try bounce, at different settings. When you find a setting (ISO, shutter speed, f/stop, flash power setting) that works at 5 meters (camera to subject distance) write it down.
Now try 3 meters, find a good setting. How high is your ceiling? That setting will work for that height, a higher ceiling will need more power, a lower ceiling will need less.
There's lots more experimenting to do, but this should get you started!
Good Luck!
Ron

Last edited by rbefly; 12-18-2012 at 08:17 AM.

**Just1MoreDave** · 12-18-2012, 10:32 AM - **1 Like**

The fractions like 1/1, 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/16, 1/32, 1/64 and 1/128 indicate flash power: full power is 1/1, and the other steps reduce power by cutting it in half each time. Each step therefore is a full stop. In other words, if you go from 1/1 flash power to 1/2, it's the same as closing the aperture on your lens from f4 to f5.6 or changing ISO from 400 to 200. When I say "the same", I mean the same in the amount of light reaching your sensor. Flash changes a lot about the photo so it's not quite the same as changing ISO a full stop, but you'll get to that later.

I think the other ratios with decimals are ratios of light for multiple flashes. If you had two flashes, you could have one flash supplying one-third of the light and another supplying two-thirds. My flash does this and I don't get it so I just ignore it. <MULTI> might refer to using multiple flashes.

The slave flash might be intelligent or dumb. Your camera's popup flash normally works in P-TTL, which means it fires a preflash to decide how much flash power to use. When you have a slave flash, it might see the preflash and fire too soon. Some newer flashes have a setting to ignore the preflash, which is smarter. You can see the preflash if you set your camera to a 2 second delay: the preflash will fire when you hit the shutter, then the flash will fire again after the delay. At lower power settings, a dumb slave might have time to recharge and fire again in that 2 seconds.

You can get a cord to use the flash off-camera, wired. I got a third party Promaster brand with all the Pentax P-TTL connections for $35. The extra connections aren't necessary for your flash so there may be cheaper solutions.

Experimenting is a good idea to find a point where you get a decent looking shot. I have one lens that I know works well with my flash, and a few starting settings. In my case it's the DA 16-45/4 lens, I use M mode, f5.6, 1/30 sec. and adjust ISO to the scene brightness. My flash has a zoom head to match the lens's zoom and P-TTL so it won't be the same for you, but the idea of starting with some settings, then adjusting, should help.

bob13bob · 12-19-2012, 07:53 PM

time fore this. Milk carton diffuser
google: flash diffuser milk
Mark's Website

slr_neophyte · 12-22-2012, 08:06 PM

Wow....lots of feedback and great advice. Thanks for all the constructive comments. I have had a little time to experiment and have found out that it is indeed FULL manual. In other words, I don't think the flash settings on the camera will affect my hotshoe flash (eg, pressing the flash button, and adjusting the +/- steps with the dial, or the Trailing Curtain Sync Mode, etc.) Anyways, I have learned that the numbers do affect the power output of the brightness / light coming out of the flash when fired. As far as I can tell, the MULTI mode is only for stroboscopic flash use. I'll continue to experiment with it. I'm going away for a few days (short trip), and will take it with me and try it out in various situations. Again - thanks for all the feedback.

audiobomber · 12-22-2012, 09:33 PM

What is the brand of the flash you bought?

slr_neophyte · 12-22-2012, 10:02 PM

Originally posted by audiobomber

What is the brand of the flash you bought?

It's a Viltrox Speedlite JY620

slr_neophyte · 12-22-2012, 10:24 PM

Originally posted by Pablom

2- Looks like it is full manual only, but the second mode might mean an auto mode (not likely for a new flash - check the front of the flash for a sensor) or if you're really lucky P-TTL, in the latter case just try it out with your camera, you'll know whether it works.

What is P-TTL ???

Pablom · 12-23-2012, 01:00 AM

Originally posted by slr_neophyte

What is P-TTL ???

P-TTL is an automatic mode that is metered by the camera (through the lens), rather than the flash. It appears that you won't get to enjoy that feature with your current flash.
For a more technical explanation see post #8 by Just1MoreDave

12-18-2012, 08:11 AM	#7
rbefly Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Denver, Colorado Photos: Albums Posts: 2,030	Tryouts? Hello sir_neophyte, Good to hear that you took our advice, a flash will serve you well in several different areas of photography. The most obvious is, of course what you mentioned, dimly-lit or indoor group photos. But it's also great for portraits, macro, and "fill flash" is good for situations where the subject is partly-lit by daylight, but some parts (like the face) is in shadow. Fill flash or partial-power flash can even out the lighting. But first, you have to get used to using it. Just leave yourself plenty of time to test it, and keep notes on settings, distance, etc. Your first set of batteries will be used up quickly, but that's a small price to pay. Let's clear up the "Bounce" feature, which is why most flashes have the tilt option. When you face a subject and fire the flash directly at them, the flash (usually) overpowers all other light and gives the subject the classic "Deer in the headlights" (think about it!) look. It flattens their features, throws deep shadows directly behind them (like Film Noir) and is generally considered the least flattering use of light. It's called "Direct Frontal Light". Avoid it if you can. Instead, tilt the flash head up about 45 degrees, so the light bounces off the ceiling and back down for a more indirect lighting angle. Of course, the exact angle will vary, depending on the subject distance from the camera and the height (and color) of the ceiling. Another use of tilt is to angle the flash head up and use a "Bounce Card" to bring it back down. Many newer flashes have the card built right into the front of the flash, you just pull it out. If not, a plain white card rubber-banded to the top/front of the flash works fine. If you can talk a friend into modeling for you, try different power settings and distances. If you can't get a suitable model, there's another solution; A styrofoam "Head", the kind used to display wigs, necklaces, sunglasses, etc. I found a used one in a thrift store for $3.00 US. Set it up in a room, turn off all the lights and blast away! Try full frontal light first, to see how it looks. Now try bounce, at different settings. When you find a setting (ISO, shutter speed, f/stop, flash power setting) that works at 5 meters (camera to subject distance) write it down. Now try 3 meters, find a good setting. How high is your ceiling? That setting will work for that height, a higher ceiling will need more power, a lower ceiling will need less. There's lots more experimenting to do, but this should get you started! Good Luck! Ron Last edited by rbefly; 12-18-2012 at 08:17 AM.

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12-18-2012, 04:41 AM	#1
slr_neophyte Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Suzhou China Photos: Gallery Posts: 149	Just bought a hotshoe flash.....now what? So, it's been recommended that I get a flash & a faster prime lens with a wide angle. The lens is going to have to wait as I'm a little low on cash at the moment, and the one I've got my eye on is that 31mm F1.8 Limited. The recommendations came about as a result of a recent posting about how to get decent indoor shots with my kit lens (18-55mm) in low light situations. I hate using a flash, but I guess I need to learn now to use one properly - that's where your replies to this post will come in handy. I just bought a hotshoe flash - probably an unknown name to many as it was purchased in China. It doesn't swivel, but it does tilt up and down - so I can bounce it. It's got several modes and settings, of which I have no idea what most of them are for. Here's where I need some general info. The instructions have been translated from Chinese into English - so they're not the easiest to fully comprehend. Basically, I'd like a brief description / summary of how to use of the following: 1. Flash ratio output. What is it? I can go up and down between the following settings: 1/1, 1/1-0.3, 1/1-0.7, 1/2, 1/2-0.3........1/128 - what do all these numbers mean, and how do I use them? Are they similar to EV compensation steps? 2. I have two modes: <M> and <MULTI> - I'm not sure what they're for either, or what the difference is. 3. It also has a stroboscopic flash function, and a wireless slave function - both of which I have some minute idea of what they're for and how to use them - so I don't really need feedback on this one. Looking forward to hear from the community.....and thanks in advance!

12-18-2012, 05:06 AM	#2
photolady95 Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: May 2009 Location: Cruising the forum watching his back Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,712	Originally posted by slr_neophyte probably an unknown name to many People need to know which brand it is to answer your questions.

12-18-2012, 05:42 AM	#3
elliott Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: North Carolina Photos: Albums Posts: 1,720	It sounds like a full manual flash, so you'll have to either set the power with the guide number formula (hopefully they list accurate GNs in the manual) or just go by trial and error.

12-18-2012, 05:55 AM	#4
klkitchens Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Allanta, GA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 480	Originally posted by slr_neophyte So, it's been recommended that I get a flash & a faster prime lens with a wide angle. The lens is going to have to wait as I'm a little low on cash at the moment, and the one I've got my eye on is that 31mm F1.8 Limited. The recommendations came about as a result of a recent posting about how to get decent indoor shots with my kit lens (18-55mm) in low light situations. I hate using a flash, but I guess I need to learn now to use one properly - that's where your replies to this post will come in handy. I just bought a hotshoe flash - probably an unknown name to many as it was purchased in China. It doesn't swivel, but it does tilt up and down - so I can bounce it. It's got several modes and settings, of which I have no idea what most of them are for. Here's where I need some general info. The instructions have been translated from Chinese into English - so they're not the easiest to fully comprehend. Basically, I'd like a brief description / summary of how to use of the following: 1. Flash ratio output. What is it? I can go up and down between the following settings: 1/1, 1/1-0.3, 1/1-0.7, 1/2, 1/2-0.3........1/128 - what do all these numbers mean, and how do I use them? Are they similar to EV compensation steps? 2. I have two modes: <M> and <MULTI> - I'm not sure what they're for either, or what the difference is. 3. It also has a stroboscopic flash function, and a wireless slave function - both of which I have some minute idea of what they're for and how to use them - so I don't really need feedback on this one. Looking forward to hear from the community.....and thanks in advance! Step #1. Take it off the hot shoe

12-18-2012, 06:00 AM	#5
Pablom Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Usa Posts: 1,940	1- 1/1 means full power, 1/2 is half power and any other fraction means that fraction of full output. how much is full power? check the manual. 2- Looks like it is full manual only, but the second mode might mean an auto mode (not likely for a new flash - check the front of the flash for a sensor) or if you're really lucky P-TTL, in the latter case just try it out with your camera, you'll know whether it works. 3- don't need feedback so you'll not get any. Don't forget to bounce!

12-18-2012, 06:16 AM	#6
ihasa Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: West Midlands Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,066	"What now?" Experimentation! Try these settings. Camera in M mode. ISO 200. Shutter speed 1/60. Aperture f5.6. Flash on full power, tilted to the ceiling. Too dark? Increase aperture or ISO... etc.

12-18-2012, 10:32 AM - 1 Like	#8
Just1MoreDave Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Aurora, CO Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,340	The fractions like 1/1, 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/16, 1/32, 1/64 and 1/128 indicate flash power: full power is 1/1, and the other steps reduce power by cutting it in half each time. Each step therefore is a full stop. In other words, if you go from 1/1 flash power to 1/2, it's the same as closing the aperture on your lens from f4 to f5.6 or changing ISO from 400 to 200. When I say "the same", I mean the same in the amount of light reaching your sensor. Flash changes a lot about the photo so it's not quite the same as changing ISO a full stop, but you'll get to that later. I think the other ratios with decimals are ratios of light for multiple flashes. If you had two flashes, you could have one flash supplying one-third of the light and another supplying two-thirds. My flash does this and I don't get it so I just ignore it. <MULTI> might refer to using multiple flashes. The slave flash might be intelligent or dumb. Your camera's popup flash normally works in P-TTL, which means it fires a preflash to decide how much flash power to use. When you have a slave flash, it might see the preflash and fire too soon. Some newer flashes have a setting to ignore the preflash, which is smarter. You can see the preflash if you set your camera to a 2 second delay: the preflash will fire when you hit the shutter, then the flash will fire again after the delay. At lower power settings, a dumb slave might have time to recharge and fire again in that 2 seconds. You can get a cord to use the flash off-camera, wired. I got a third party Promaster brand with all the Pentax P-TTL connections for $35. The extra connections aren't necessary for your flash so there may be cheaper solutions. Experimenting is a good idea to find a point where you get a decent looking shot. I have one lens that I know works well with my flash, and a few starting settings. In my case it's the DA 16-45/4 lens, I use M mode, f5.6, 1/30 sec. and adjust ISO to the scene brightness. My flash has a zoom head to match the lens's zoom and P-TTL so it won't be the same for you, but the idea of starting with some settings, then adjusting, should help.

12-19-2012, 07:53 PM	#9
bob13bob Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 34	time fore this. Milk carton diffuser google: flash diffuser milk Mark's Website

12-22-2012, 08:06 PM	#10
slr_neophyte Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Suzhou China Photos: Gallery Posts: 149 Original Poster	Wow....lots of feedback and great advice. Thanks for all the constructive comments. I have had a little time to experiment and have found out that it is indeed FULL manual. In other words, I don't think the flash settings on the camera will affect my hotshoe flash (eg, pressing the flash button, and adjusting the +/- steps with the dial, or the Trailing Curtain Sync Mode, etc.) Anyways, I have learned that the numbers do affect the power output of the brightness / light coming out of the flash when fired. As far as I can tell, the MULTI mode is only for stroboscopic flash use. I'll continue to experiment with it. I'm going away for a few days (short trip), and will take it with me and try it out in various situations. Again - thanks for all the feedback.

12-22-2012, 09:33 PM	#11
audiobomber Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sudbury, Ontario Photos: Albums Posts: 6,806	What is the brand of the flash you bought?

12-22-2012, 10:02 PM	#12
slr_neophyte Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Suzhou China Photos: Gallery Posts: 149 Original Poster	Originally posted by audiobomber What is the brand of the flash you bought? It's a Viltrox Speedlite JY620

12-22-2012, 10:24 PM	#13
slr_neophyte Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Suzhou China Photos: Gallery Posts: 149 Original Poster	Originally posted by Pablom 2- Looks like it is full manual only, but the second mode might mean an auto mode (not likely for a new flash - check the front of the flash for a sensor) or if you're really lucky P-TTL, in the latter case just try it out with your camera, you'll know whether it works. What is P-TTL ???

12-23-2012, 01:00 AM	#14
Pablom Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Usa Posts: 1,940	Originally posted by slr_neophyte What is P-TTL ??? P-TTL is an automatic mode that is metered by the camera (through the lens), rather than the flash. It appears that you won't get to enjoy that feature with your current flash. For a more technical explanation see post #8 by Just1MoreDave