[beebs]

We are the "how to get the most out of your Pentax" book. If there's something you need to know someone here knows about it.

I'm totally figuring that one out! You folks are great! I knew I'd found &"Pentax Home Base" when I hit this forum! ;-)

[drugal]

Trioka, although I haven't lived in Washington for years ... I've heard stories about Fry's having Pentax DSLRs in stock. As I recall I saw a Fry's from the freeway the last time I was in Seattle.

[Laurentiu Cristofor]

Trioka, although I haven't lived in Washington for years ... I've heard stories about Fry's having Pentax DSLRs in stock. As I recall I saw a Fry's from the freeway the last time I was in Seattle.

Yes, there is a Fry's in Renton (SR405, exit 5) and they carry Pentax. They had DSLR's at some point, at another I saw the Q, but last time I think I only saw the X5. Their inventory varies in time for all manufacturers, not just for Pentax.

[voyager13]

We are the "how to get the most out of your Pentax" book. If there's something you need to know someone here knows about it.

Absolutely. PF is the place. Here comes everyone who knows Pentax gear well and not-so-well.

[troika]

Thanks guys on the tip for Fry's, they seem to sell them on line, but not in the stores. I should call them.

I'm going to be up in BC tomorrow and I've located a few shops to visit. I don't think it makes sense to buy there, but if I can handle the K-30 and K-5 it will help me decide which to order. I'm hoping that I love the K-30 and that will be that, but We'll see.

[zoolander]

Canon and Nikon both make excellent products. From entry level to pro systems, they have fantastic offerings. In fact, I believe that Canon's Rebel line is the best entry level cameras and Nikon makes the best prosumer cameras on the market. Now I prefer Pentax which is why I have a K-5 and not a D7000. Both companies make great glass, some of which is priced better than the Pentax equivalent.

Nikon and Canon did not get the lion's share of the market by making crap and scheming the entire photography world. Be careful making sweeping comments as you are likely to offend one of the many people on this forum that shoot with multiple systems.

The original thread is asking why is Pentax a neglected brand.

But on consumer grade cameras and which is the best:

Firstly:
The Canon 1000D and 1100D do not have mirror lock up. In Canon, the 550D and up have mirror lock up ONLY in manual mode in I think its the 4th, 5th, or 6th menu tab, under the 8 or 9th item. You have a tonne of button presses just to get to mirror lock up.

The Nikon D3000, D3100, D3200, D5000, D5100 and D90 DO NOT have mirror lock up. I'm sorry, but I was getting horrendous mirror slap with my Nikon EVEN on a tripod (the D7000 has a mirror lockup dial - Kudos !). And at the time if I wanted the Nikon with mirror lockup I would have had to pay $1700, or in Canon $1400 meanwhile all Pentax cameras had mirror lock on 2 second timer and the price would have been $750.

Mirror lockup is indispensable especially for macro shooting which is what I was mainly into. Its actually indispensable in any kind of shooting.

Secondly:
Pentax has a contrast detect in live view which none of the others have, and can macro auto focus very reliably. Canon and Nikon have a dead end contrast detect that switches back to the phase detect and causes them to focus hunt horrendously.

Thirdly:
Pentax and Sony use Sensor stabilization, Sony's is slightly better than Pentax's. I can wack onto my Sony my automatic extension tubes and the kit 55-200 and shoot macro successfully with it - its that good. And mind you with less blur than my Nikon on a tripod. Pentax's stabilization is not as good on the long end - but is excellent fine. Using a Canon or Nikon, you take a shot and you HAVE to check to see if the lens stabilization worked and the picture is good. Every time I try a Canon or Nikon this same thing occurs 30-50% of your shots are a failing because of lens stabilization. On my Sony, once I did a round of 30 plus portrait shots and I had to delete 3 for being blurry. Same with the Pentax, I don't have to constantly check if my shots are blurry because SR works just as well as Steady Shot. Sensor stabilization works better than lens stabilization PLUS your primes, wide angles etc etc will be stabilized.

I mean come-on, how many websites and articles are out there stating that lens stabilization is better than sensor stabilization, because lens based works on an additional 3rd dimensional plane. What an utter load of lies and bollony.

At Christmas I tried the new white little Canon with interchangeable lenses: First shot blurry, second shot blurry, third shot blurry, because the IS doesn't work properly - yeah must be the best consumer camera...... NOT ! However the recently released underwater Canon that's blue in color - yes ! its boss, its excellent - kudos to Canon, they finally made a real good consumer camera !

In my experience lens stabilization seems to work better on the more expensive lenses.

Fourthly:
Operating system issues and glitches. My Sony and Pentax is FAR more responsive, the operating system works far more smoothly and seamlessly than my Nikon did. Canon is marginally better than Nikon. I've studied IT and I have a certain understanding of how operating systems should work and why. I get far fewer glitches with Sony and Pentax but they do exist because of bad memory stuck in the RAM (I wont get into it).

Finally:
I do not make sweeping generalizations, my opinions came through my own practical experience as a consumer of these products. Nikon make some good cameras, Canon make some good cameras, but Pentax and Sony's (except Sony in high ISO) make better consumer grade cameras - IN MY EXPERIENCE AND OPINION............

If that offends you or anybody else then too bad. At least I back up my opinions with fair and unbiased reasons, and I was at one stage going to switch to Canon and I'm glad I didn't. But once you go to sensor stabilization you'll (I mean me) never go back.

Yes, Canon and Nikon make better PROFESSIONAL full frame cameras than Pentax - because Pentax doesn't make a professional full frame camera ...... yet !

You guys can jabber on about Canon and Nikon full frame gear all you want - I'm sure its great @ $4000-$5000, and it better be for that sort of money !

I feel i learnt the hard way with camera gear. People in stores and in magazines mostly PUSH Canon and Nikon. I was a mad keep Nikon enthusiast until I started researching the camera tests and finally discovered that Pentax is a fantastic brand. Now having tried them, yes, the grass is FAR greener on the Pentax and Sony side, and my opinions are not based on some biased ideas, but on real practical experience.

I used to buy photography magazines and they tend to write-off Pentax cameras, and two years ago I used to believed them. But through researching independent online testers, the story about Pentax is TOTALLY different.

Just a few weeks ago I was at a News agency reading the photography magazines, and saw a comparison of cameras which had the Pentax K-30 in it. They showed macro shots from all 3 or 4 cameras and the K-30 had the worst shot of all and was actually a non-legible and blurred shot. I was outraged, the Pentax k-30 has one of the highest resolutions if not THE highest resolution in its class by a long shot according to sample shots online.

Conclusion:
The photographic industry is a joke. Magazines produce prejudiced articles, the store sales people push mostly Canon and Nikon and rag on the others. But who was I kidding, this is the same thing in ANY industry. Just look at IT and the underhanded and unscrupulousness of Bill Gates or Steve Jobs etc etc (I wont get into it).

I'm tired of canikon guys ragging on Sony or Pentax online or in magazines or in stores. Then if I complain on PENTAX FORUMS about Canon or Nikon and their corporate underhandedness, I get told: "be careful not to offend the canikon multi-system users"..... pfffffffft !

Boo-hoo here's a tissue !

If you've got a consumer Nikon and/or a Canon, then enjoy it because they're good cameras and can produce fine images - but Pentax is better ! Thats why its called Pentax forums and not Nikon rumors or what ever they call the Canon site.

[zoolander]

Well said and summarized Zoolander. Just hope you don't get a 'snake'-bite(view earlier posts) soon

Yeah not to worry, I'm like a veteran online debater in different more vicious circles. That's why I tend to go on and on and on in my remarks because I enjoy writing.

Looks like camera brand debating can get fairly ugly. Which reminds me of when i switched from Nikon, I explained my decision and research to a friend who shoots Nikon, he kinda didn't want to be friends with me anymore . 'If you don't like Nikon then we cant be friends anymore' ! That's how stupid and immature brand loyalty can get, well its actually ignorance to the online data.

[SirBismuth]

Very nice post zoolander, puts the point across without getting fanboy-ish!

While researching the K-30, and whether or not I should buy it as I have some Pentax lenses here (not the newest or the best, but I don't care, they've produced some nice shots on my Z20), I compared it to Canon and Nikon as well, and eventually fell back to Pentax. Their equivalents are not bad, but there were certain aspects that had me coming back to Pentax (lenses, amongst others). I can't afford a Pro body right now, and quite frankly, would like to see what Pentax releases in the future, FF or not. The one review I read about the K-30 (can't remember where it was, otherwise would link it), was clearly written by a Nikon fanboy, who did his best to dis the K-30 at every opportunity, although he really couldn't. Eventually, as most other reviews I've read have done, criticised the video performance of the K-30..... which was moot for me, I could care less what video the K-30 takes, if I wanted a video camera, I would research the options and go out and buy one. I want a DSLR, have used Pentax, am happy with them, and am going to do so in the future for the time being.

I have noticed obvious bias against Pentax, and most of those reasons are really not big. The worst is that newcomers are being steered away from Pentax (by biased reporting and lack of accurate information), if they are even aware of it, towards one of the other major brands, so any comparisons etc. that they might do, exclude Pentax. I spoke to a Pro the other day, who said he has never seen a Pro (in SA) shooting Pentax, that had absolutely no influence in my purchasing decision, though, as comparing the K-30 to the D7000 and D60, and others of a similar class, showed me that every systems has its' Pros and Cons. I told him while it may not be big with the Pros here, that is a bit of an exception, as the ratio might be a bit more balanced (relatively) outside of our borders.

I still think we need to let people know that Pentax as a camera system still exists, and competes easily with the rest. THAT is the problem, I still insist. Whether they are owned by Hoya or Ricoh, or whoever next may buy them, they are there and are a force to be reckoned with..... if you know that they exist.

B

[VoiceOfReason]

I actually had someone at a Wolf Camera store tell me I was stupid for going with Pentax when I originally got the Kx, and that I should have gotten a Nikon instead. he even tried to get me to send the Kx back and buy Nikon from them!

[NitroDC]

I see Pentax as the best "enthusiast" camera out there. Obviously, it can't compete with the professional cameras from Canikon (D800, EOS 5D, etc) because 1. Pentax doesn't make full frame DSLRs (yet) and 2. Professional cameras are priced waaaaaay above any Pentax DSLR. You kind of have to expect them to be better.

As an enthusiast camera, Pentax is definitely the winner. You get some features that are offered only on competitor's pro models (like a 100% viewfinder, weather sealing) and other features designed for the beginner, all in one package. The lens lineup is also cheaper due to the fact that there's no premium on stabilized lenses. You get better quality for a cheaper price. Of course, video is better on Canon/Nikon, but honestly, I'd rather use an actual camcorder. Unless there is an absolute need for extreme DOF or very wide shots, a camcorder will work better than a DSLR. I find that a lot of videos shot on a DSLR are always shot at f/0.0001. The DOF is great when it's needed, but it is very, very often overused. An episode of House was shot on a 5D, yes, but it wasn't chock full of cheesy massive bokeh everywhere.

And this isn't to say that Canikon make awful cameras, but it's fairly obvious that they focus on the prosumer market much more than Pentax.

[bullitt_60]

The original thread is asking why is Pentax a neglected brand.

But on consumer grade cameras and which is the best:

Firstly:
The Canon 1000D and 1100D do not have mirror lock up. In Canon, the 550D and up have mirror lock up ONLY in manual mode in I think its the 4th, 5th, or 6th menu tab, under the 8 or 9th item. You have a tonne of button presses just to get to mirror lock up.

The Nikon D3000, D3100, D3200, D5000, D5100 and D90 DO NOT have mirror lock up. I'm sorry, but I was getting horrendous mirror slap with my Nikon EVEN on a tripod (the D7000 has a mirror lockup dial - Kudos !). And at the time if I wanted the Nikon with mirror lockup I would have had to pay $1700, or in Canon $1400 meanwhile all Pentax cameras had mirror lock on 2 second timer and the price would have been $750.

Mirror lockup is indispensable especially for macro shooting which is what I was mainly into. Its actually indispensable in any kind of shooting.

Secondly:
Pentax has a contrast detect in live view which none of the others have, and can macro auto focus very reliably. Canon and Nikon have a dead end contrast detect that switches back to the phase detect and causes them to focus hunt horrendously.

Thirdly:
Pentax and Sony use Sensor stabilization, Sony's is slightly better than Pentax's. I can wack onto my Sony my automatic extension tubes and the kit 55-200 and shoot macro successfully with it - its that good. And mind you with less blur than my Nikon on a tripod. Pentax's stabilization is not as good on the long end - but is excellent fine. Using a Canon or Nikon, you take a shot and you HAVE to check to see if the lens stabilization worked and the picture is good. Every time I try a Canon or Nikon this same thing occurs 30-50% of your shots are a failing because of lens stabilization. On my Sony, once I did a round of 30 plus portrait shots and I had to delete 3 for being blurry. Same with the Pentax, I don't have to constantly check if my shots are blurry because SR works just as well as Steady Shot. Sensor stabilization works better than lens stabilization PLUS your primes, wide angles etc etc will be stabilized.

I mean come-on, how many websites and articles are out there stating that lens stabilization is better than sensor stabilization, because lens based works on an additional 3rd dimensional plane. What an utter load of lies and bollony.

At Christmas I tried the new white little Canon with interchangeable lenses: First shot blurry, second shot blurry, third shot blurry, because the IS doesn't work properly - yeah must be the best consumer camera...... NOT ! However the recently released underwater Canon that's blue in color - yes ! its boss, its excellent - kudos to Canon, they finally made a real good consumer camera !

In my experience lens stabilization seems to work better on the more expensive lenses.

Fourthly:
Operating system issues and glitches. My Sony and Pentax is FAR more responsive, the operating system works far more smoothly and seamlessly than my Nikon did. Canon is marginally better than Nikon. I've studied IT and I have a certain understanding of how operating systems should work and why. I get far fewer glitches with Sony and Pentax but they do exist because of bad memory stuck in the RAM (I wont get into it).

Finally:
I do not make sweeping generalizations, my opinions came through my own practical experience as a consumer of these products. Nikon make some good cameras, Canon make some good cameras, but Pentax and Sony's (except Sony in high ISO) make better consumer grade cameras - IN MY EXPERIENCE AND OPINION............

If that offends you or anybody else then too bad. At least I back up my opinions with fair and unbiased reasons, and I was at one stage going to switch to Canon and I'm glad I didn't. But once you go to sensor stabilization you'll (I mean me) never go back.

Yes, Canon and Nikon make better PROFESSIONAL full frame cameras than Pentax - because Pentax doesn't make a professional full frame camera ...... yet !

You guys can jabber on about Canon and Nikon full frame gear all you want - I'm sure its great @ $4000-$5000, and it better be for that sort of money !

I feel i learnt the hard way with camera gear. People in stores and in magazines mostly PUSH Canon and Nikon. I was a mad keep Nikon enthusiast until I started researching the camera tests and finally discovered that Pentax is a fantastic brand. Now having tried them, yes, the grass is FAR greener on the Pentax and Sony side, and my opinions are not based on some biased ideas, but on real practical experience.

I used to buy photography magazines and they tend to write-off Pentax cameras, and two years ago I used to believed them. But through researching independent online testers, the story about Pentax is TOTALLY different.

Just a few weeks ago I was at a News agency reading the photography magazines, and saw a comparison of cameras which had the Pentax K-30 in it. They showed macro shots from all 3 or 4 cameras and the K-30 had the worst shot of all and was actually a non-legible and blurred shot. I was outraged, the Pentax k-30 has one of the highest resolutions if not THE highest resolution in its class by a long shot according to sample shots online.

Conclusion:
The photographic industry is a joke. Magazines produce prejudiced articles, the store sales people push mostly Canon and Nikon and rag on the others. But who was I kidding, this is the same thing in ANY industry. Just look at IT and the underhanded and unscrupulousness of Bill Gates or Steve Jobs etc etc (I wont get into it).

I'm tired of canikon guys ragging on Sony or Pentax online or in magazines or in stores. Then if I complain on PENTAX FORUMS about Canon or Nikon and their corporate underhandedness, I get told: "be careful not to offend the canikon multi-system users"..... pfffffffft !

Boo-hoo here's a tissue !

If you've got a consumer Nikon and/or a Canon, then enjoy it because they're good cameras and can produce fine images - but Pentax is better ! Thats why its called Pentax forums and not Nikon rumors or what ever they call the Canon site.

So all of this is over the fact that Nikon doesn't offer MLU on their entry level cameras and a few other misc. features? Canon does but it takes too many steps to enable the feature? The K-30 does not have a dedicated MLU but will function with the self timer, just like most (if not all) Canon Rebels. The similarly priced and marketed K-5(II), D7000/D300S, 60D/7D all have this feature. So I don't understand how this makes Canon and Nikon products "so bad"? One obviously disgruntled consumer among millions of happy ones calls an entire product line "junk"... that is a broad generalization.

I just switched from Canon to Pentax because I preferred the K-5 to the 60D/7D. I'm not about to call those Canons junk as that would be a lie. The Canon forum is photography-on-the.net, btw.

Since you are new to this forum, as am I, I was trying to warn you that there are many, many members here that shoot multiple formats. This is something that is not as common in the Canon or Nikon worlds, so you may find it appropriate to choose your words carefully... or not, I don't care.

Yeah not to worry, I'm like a veteran online debater in different more vicious circles. That's why I tend to go on and on and on in my remarks because I enjoy writing.

Looks like camera brand debating can get fairly ugly. Which reminds me of when i switched from Nikon, I explained my decision and research to a friend who shoots Nikon, he kinda didn't want to be friends with me anymore . 'If you don't like Nikon then we cant be friends anymore' ! That's how stupid and immature brand loyalty can get, well its actually ignorance to the online data.

Maybe this is a culture difference, but I read this as "I'm trolling for an argument; take the bait." I'm kind of regretting the fact I did.

[northcoastgreg]

Canon and Nikon both make excellent products. From entry level to pro systems, they have fantastic offerings. In fact, I believe that Canon's Rebel line is the best entry level cameras

While I agree that Canon and Nikon make excellent stuff (gear that is, in some respects at least, better than what Pentax offers), I'm not so sure I'd go so far as to say the Canon Rebels are the best entry level cameras. The Rebels are nice cameras for the price, and I've recommended them to photographers who have access to Canon glass or whose friends predominantly shoot Canon; but in terms of sensor performance, the Rebels are not equal to the Nikon entry level stuff, and in terms of sensor performance, ergonomics, build quality, and handling, they are not the equal of Pentax's equivalent offerings.

I understand that most people are going to buy either the camera used by the professionals they admire or by their friends. At least 95% of the time that means Nikon or Canon. But if entry-level to lower mid-level DSLR consumers had the opportunity to handle the Canon, Nikon, and Pentax bodies and to compare them side-by-side I would have to think that most people would have to admit that the Pentax bodies are superior. The lower end Nikon and Canon stuff does feel rather cheap and plasticky when compared to the equivalent Pentax cameras. The problem is that most consumers have no clue that this is true because they've never actually held a camera like the K200D or the K-30.

[bullitt_60]

While I agree that Canon and Nikon make excellent stuff (gear that is, in some respects at least, better than what Pentax offers), I'm not so sure I'd go so far as to say the Canon Rebels are the best entry level cameras. The Rebels are nice cameras for the price, and I've recommended them to photographers who have access to Canon glass or whose friends predominantly shoot Canon; but in terms of sensor performance, the Rebels are not equal to the Nikon entry level stuff, and in terms of sensor performance, ergonomics, build quality, and handling, they are not the equal of Pentax's equivalent offerings.

I understand that most people are going to buy either the camera used by the professionals they admire or by their friends. At least 95% of the time that means Nikon or Canon. But if entry-level to lower mid-level DSLR consumers had the opportunity to handle the Canon, Nikon, and Pentax bodies and to compare them side-by-side I would have to think that most people would have to admit that the Pentax bodies are superior. The lower end Nikon and Canon stuff does feel rather cheap and plasticky when compared to the equivalent Pentax cameras. The problem is that most consumers have no clue that this is true because they've never actually held a camera like the K200D or the K-30.

That's fair, and I definitely agree on the ergonomics as that is something I think Canon struggles with on all their cameras. As you mentioned, I do think Rebels offer an incredible feature set for the price. I'm not sure the better sensor performance offered by Nikon really matters in that segment however. Although, if you or I are looking for a second camera, it is a different story.

[troika]

I start many of my posts with "I don't actually know what I'm talking about, but..." and I will with this one too. Clearly there's a lot of history behind how a lot of you feel, but maybe a fresh perspective helps too.

I was up in BC today and went to one of many camera stores that carries Pentax (vs none in my state). Their curb signage had Pentax featured with as much prominence as Canon and Nikon and when I walked in and said "I'd like to look at Pentax dSLRs", the man showed me the K-30 and the K-5 classic, talked about the ii and iiS, which he didn't have but knew about, explained the differences consistently with what I've read here. Mentioned weather sealing, backward lens compatibility, the whole Pentax mantra. Never tried to talk to me about or show me anything else. The only mention on Canon or Nikon was to say that he thought with a good lens Pentax was every bit as good or better.

Most or all of the reviews that I've read in magazines like Shutter Bug and sites like dpreview.com have been positive on Pentax, which is partially what brought me here.

My perspective is that Pentax doesn't have a neglect or disrespect problem, they have a distribution problem. My local store is not going to be knowledgeable or enthusiastic about a product that they have never seen, don't know much about and can't sell me. They will be about products that they know, maybe personally own and have talked with customers about who have bought and come back in for lenses and accessories.

As for these guys who come up and insult you when they see your camera (I hope this happens to me some day), they likely are basing that on what they saw and heard when they shopped.

You can't not place products in a market, like Seattle, and expect to have a presence there anyway. Some of the places that used to carry them closed, they've been through some ownership changes, I'm told they can be tough to deal with. I hope they straighten it out.

But, I do think that thiis is mostly about distribution and market footprint. I don't see a broader plot or attitude. They're just not managing their market effectively right now in my opinion. Their brand perception is of their own doing.

[EarlVonTapia]

I start many of my posts with "I don't actually know what I'm talking about, but..." and I will with this one too. Clearly there's a lot of history behind how a lot of you feel, but maybe a fresh perspective helps too.

I was up in BC today and went to one of many camera stores that carries Pentax (vs none in my state). Their curb signage had Pentax featured with as much prominence as Canon and Nikon and when I walked in and said "I'd like to look at Pentax dSLRs", the man showed me the K-30 and the K-5 classic, talked about the ii and iiS, which he didn't have but knew about, explained the differences consistently with what I've read here. Mentioned weather sealing, backward lens compatibility, the whole Pentax mantra. Never tried to talk to me about or show me anything else. The only mention on Canon or Nikon was to say that he thought with a good lens Pentax was every bit as good or better.

Most or all of the reviews that I've read in magazines like Shutter Bug and sites like dpreview.com have been positive on Pentax, which is partially what brought me here.

My perspective is that Pentax doesn't have a neglect or disrespect problem, they have a distribution problem. My local store is not going to be knowledgeable or enthusiastic about a product that they have never seen, don't know much about and can't sell me. They will be about products that they know, maybe personally own and have talked with customers about who have bought and come back in for lenses and accessories.

As for these guys who come up and insult you when they see your camera (I hope this happens to me some day), they likely are basing that on what they saw and heard when they shopped.

You can't not place products in a market, like Seattle, and expect to have a presence there anyway. Some of the places that used to carry them closed, they've been through some ownership changes, I'm told they can be tough to deal with. I hope they straighten it out.

But, I do think that thiis is mostly about distribution and market footprint. I don't see a broader plot or attitude. They're just not managing their market effectively right now in my opinion. Their brand perception is of their own doing.

I hope you had a good time in our Province!

It is nice to see Pentax in an actual brick and mortar store. However, the prices for new items in these local stores is kind of high compared to what you can find online. Also, less selection, although I don't think any store anywhere can really beat online selection.

The best prices I've seen are actually from London Drugs. During the past holiday season they had some deals that rivaled some of the deals that were found online through B&H and other online retailers. Their selection kind of sucks though.

This is why I bought a Pentax DSLR

. . .

2. I wanted a red camera to match my corporate colour.

I bought a K30 in blue because I wanted it to match the rest of my gear. Color is so important to me. It is what drew me to the K30 in the first place. I purchased a blue K30 over a black K30 with a better bundled kit lens, simply because it was blue.

This past December I was lucky enough to have a chat with the Pentax Americas head honcho and I told him how important the whole color thing was to me. He said it was important to them too, and in Japan they are having great success with the extreme color customization program for the Q. They showed that off at a recent expo this past January. It's an easy differentiator from the main competitors.

Hopefully we'll see more colored bodies in the future.