Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
01-03-2013, 12:09 PM   #31
Pentaxian
troika's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Seattle, WA USA
Posts: 845
First let me say that I know nothing compared to you all, but as someone shopping right now, the fact that there are zero authorized Pentax dealers in my state is a big issue. I live in a significant metropolitan area full of arty people who would make a great target market, but I'm going to have to order on-line sight unseen whereas if I wanted a Canon or Nikon I could go to a good shop, get expert advice, handle a few things and even get some training on the camera I buy. It's a big enough issue that I might still be tempted that direction, though I have it in my mind that I really want a K-5 for a variety of reasons.

From a business perspective, retail availability is a big factor, especially with higher end products like this. I'm not sure how that happened or what their business plan is on this point, but it has to be a major factor in their market share. I'm reading here that my area is not alone in this circumstance.

01-03-2013, 01:27 PM   #32
Senior Member




Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Helsinki
Photos: Albums
Posts: 135
I haven't posted in quite a while, but wanted to respond to troika's concerns about buying Pentax sight unseen.

When I decided to purchase my K-7 in January 2011, I had only owned a Pentax Optio S-7 point and shoot. With no B&M stores selling Pentax near me in Winston-Salem NC, I had my reservations. However, after conducting plenty of research I decided that a K-7 would be right for me. No other brand offered weather sealing to the level of the K-7 and Pentax's WR lenses at the same price point. I paid right around $800 for a K-7, 18-55 WR kit lens, and a bunch of off brand "kit items" (of which I only ever use the pathetic air blower and off brand batteries).

I've shot over 10,000 images since 2011- mostly of my hobby, with only a few that I'd really like to share beyond friends and family as "art." The K-7 fits my outdoor shooting very well. I use it to document regenerative landscape design. The only problem I have with it is the noise at and after 800 ISO. I am being honest here, my only issue with the K-7 is the sensor noise at 800 and beyond. Other than that, the camera is an absolute joy.

Since you are looking at a K-5, I can only say that if you were to buy the camera and be disappointed, then I'm not so sure any APS-C offering by Nikon or Canon would have been a better option. In my less than professional opinion, the only arena where Pentax truly lags behind technology wise is fast action auto-focus. A K-5 will offer you leaps and bounds better low-light results for the same price that I paid for my K-7. In other words, you'll have a camera with more features, absolutely amazing build quality(*) (unless you get one of those lemons with a broken lens removal button, which is a slim chance [from what I've read here]), and weather sealing for your damp Seattle climate.

I wouldn't let buying sight unseen with a K-5 hold you back. If you have larger hands, then a battery grip would be in order (I'm planning on purchasing one soon for my K-7- portrait orientation with the DA* 50-135 isn't the most comfortable without one). Other than that, my only concern would be how to return/send your camera in for repair and servicing without the convenience of a local shop which will handle Pentax.

The first time you take your Pentax out into the rain for the sheer fun of it, let us know.

(*)Did I mention that my "kit" came with a cheap tripod which, to my dismay, couldn't hold up with a heavy M42 lens I had mounted on it and so toppled over lens first onto concrete with only the lens suffering damage? My K-7 still shoots perfectly even after a yard high fall onto pavement! Sure, the lens broke the fall, but the solid magnesium body did its job.
01-03-2013, 01:35 PM   #33
Banned




Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NY/Germany
Posts: 1,183
QuoteOriginally posted by voyager13 Quote
Hi guys,

You may or may not have noticed that the world loves Canon/Nikon, or so it gives the impression to me. I find work posted by those two brands all over the internet. Kelby training, Lynda.com and many more do trainings about Canon and Nikon products, but not Pentax. I know that Pentax is no less, just maybe the range of products may not be as much as the big two, but with Sigma,Tamron, Samyang etc offering quality lenses for Pentax there shouldn't be a shortage of images on the web. But that's not the case, or am I missing something?
Is it the marketing game that is being played? or is there more to it?
It all boils down to "who cares". Anyone good will be able to use anything, if you're bad, it has nothing to do with the brand.

Brand loyalty has no place here in this argument.

imagination and creativity > camera brand

This is not team sports, where we root for our favorites. This is commerce, supply and demand, product development and management, by a corporation whose bottom line is not people, but money.
01-03-2013, 02:04 PM   #34
Pentaxian
troika's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Seattle, WA USA
Posts: 845
QuoteOriginally posted by Finchj Quote
I haven't posted in quite a while, but wanted to respond to troika's concerns about buying Pentax sight unseen.

When I decided to purchase my K-7 in January 2011, I had only owned a Pentax Optio S-7 point and shoot. With no B&M stores selling Pentax near me in Winston-Salem NC, I had my reservations. However, after conducting plenty of research I decided that a K-7 would be right for me. No other brand offered weather sealing to the level of the K-7 and Pentax's WR lenses at the same price point. I paid right around $800 for a K-7, 18-55 WR kit lens, and a bunch of off brand "kit items" (of which I only ever use the pathetic air blower and off brand batteries).

...

Since you are looking at a K-5, I can only say that if you were to buy the camera and be disappointed, then I'm not so sure any APS-C offering by Nikon or Canon would have been a better option. In my less than professional opinion, the only arena where Pentax truly lags behind technology wise is fast action auto-focus. A K-5 will offer you leaps and bounds better low-light results for the same price that I paid for my K-7. In other words, you'll have a camera with more features, absolutely amazing build quality(*) (unless you get one of those lemons with a broken lens removal button, which is a slim chance [from what I've read here]), and weather sealing for your damp Seattle climate.

...

The first time you take your Pentax out into the rain for the sheer fun of it, let us know.
...
I'm with you. I do think that I will buy sight-unseen and don't think that I'll ever regret it for all the reasons you said and a few others.

But, as a market observation, it has to be impacting Pentax's market share that they don't have retail availability in a lot of good camera markets. Internet research/shopping/forum bonding, etc are natural to me, but my departed father, who was a good amateur photographer, would never have done this...ever. Maybe it's not the issue I think it is. I haven't seen generational demographics of which non-professionals are buying DSLRs (I assume professionals are buying what they want regardless), so maybe it's a calculated marketing strategy, but I was just floating a theory.

I would think that point-of-sale numbers for higher end micro 4/3s and DSLR cameras is available somewhere (at least to companies like Pentax) and I can't imagine that an insignificant % of point-of-sale comes from brick and mortar camera stores.


Last edited by troika; 01-03-2013 at 02:10 PM.
01-03-2013, 06:13 PM   #35
New Member




Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1
Hello, new to the forum, and thought I would comment on this thread. I recently lost my Nikon D7000 and Tokina 50-135 to salt water damage. Because I lost my main investment I've been looking at other brands. Pentax, for what I'm looking for right now is amazing spec and performance wise. But what is holding me back is what I believe are holding many consumers.

1. Lack of Camera's in stores:
If I want to try the latest Nikon/Canon I can walk to a local camera store or even convenience store and try it to see how it feels in my hand. To get a feel for a K-5 that I'm interested in, I have to commute 2 hours this weekend to hold the camera in my hand. That's discouraging to me, and far more to the average mom who just walks into her local store to get a camera.

2.Lack of Full frame:
I may never move up to a full frame camera, but I want to, and I cannot ever to that with pentax. I would buy the K-5 II sight unseen if I knew I could eventually upgrade to an FX body. It astounds me that they have not yet created a FF.

3. Lack of lens options:
While they make great special primes, Pentax are very much lacking a high quality midrange zoom, which are very popular with first time DSLR users.
01-03-2013, 06:37 PM   #36
Moderator
Site Supporter
Blue's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Florida Hill Country
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 17,166
QuoteOriginally posted by troika Quote
First let me say that I know nothing compared to you all, but as someone shopping right now, the fact that there are zero authorized Pentax dealers in my state is a big issue. I live in a significant metropolitan area full of arty people who would make a great target market, but I'm going to have to order on-line sight unseen whereas if I wanted a Canon or Nikon I could go to a good shop, get expert advice, handle a few things and even get some training on the camera I buy. It's a big enough issue that I might still be tempted that direction, though I have it in my mind that I really want a K-5 for a variety of reasons.

From a business perspective, retail availability is a big factor, especially with higher end products like this. I'm not sure how that happened or what their business plan is on this point, but it has to be a major factor in their market share. I'm reading here that my area is not alone in this circumstance.

I have faced that for an eternity, first in Cali and the past 8+ years in Florida. BH and Adorama have been my friends and once in a while Abe's and 47th as well as 17th Street. That is why I got after Ned when he babbled about the need for the MAP plan they rolled out early last year.
01-03-2013, 07:32 PM   #37
Senior Member
em-tx's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 206
QuoteOriginally posted by geoffcbassett Quote
Hello, new to the forum, and thought I would comment on this thread. I recently lost my Nikon D7000 and Tokina 50-135 to salt water damage. Because I lost my main investment I've been looking at other brands. Pentax, for what I'm looking for right now is amazing spec and performance wise. But what is holding me back is what I believe are holding many consumers.

1. Lack of Camera's in stores:
If I want to try the latest Nikon/Canon I can walk to a local camera store or even convenience store and try it to see how it feels in my hand. To get a feel for a K-5 that I'm interested in, I have to commute 2 hours this weekend to hold the camera in my hand. That's discouraging to me, and far more to the average mom who just walks into her local store to get a camera.

2.Lack of Full frame:
I may never move up to a full frame camera, but I want to, and I cannot ever to that with pentax. I would buy the K-5 II sight unseen if I knew I could eventually upgrade to an FX body. It astounds me that they have not yet created a FF.

3. Lack of lens options:
While they make great special primes, Pentax are very much lacking a high quality midrange zoom, which are very popular with first time DSLR users.
I agree with you on first 2 points. However not in 3rd. I think Pentax could also do some more effort in terms of lenses and refresh line up. Some more sharp and fast (faster than f 2,4 or 3,2 or 4) primes would be very welcome.
01-03-2013, 08:20 PM   #38
Ash
Community Manager
Loyal Site Supporter
Ash's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Toowoomba, Queensland
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 22,678
Don't worry, Pentax ARE working on a FF camera, and there WILL be creating appropriate zooms for it as well as for APS-Cs (see lens roadmap).

01-03-2013, 09:41 PM   #39
New Member




Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Photos: Albums
Posts: 12
Just a quick comment. Or maybe its a rhetorical question? Does Pentax realize their best marketing is right from this forum? (at least in the US as far as I know)

I would have never considered Pentax unless I did the hours and hours of research for my first DSLR online until I came across this site. It prompted me to travel to the only relatively close camera store that carried Pentax in my area to try one out. The feel of the camera in my hand sold me. The WR and compatibility with older lenses was icing on the cake.
01-04-2013, 01:38 AM   #40
Senior Member
Khashoggi's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: IJsselstein
Posts: 152
Funny fact is, at the end of the summer of 2011 when some standard problems with the K200 started I started to look around. And at 2 shops they both almost said the same, the Pentax camera's around against Nikon and Canon on that time were much better, more possibility's, better camera's for less money and a lot more options with old lenses then Canon or Nikon. Only point of view they had was with newer lenses, that Pentax was behind with that on Canon and Nikon. But that in opposite of mainly Canon, older lenses kept working fine, and that they do work, instead of Canon and also Nikon, you didn't have to wonder if they would work, it just would even with lenses of 30-40 years ago. And even the quality of the lenses was less then the ones of Pentax. I just had one shop who said that even older lenses wouldn't work correctly on Nikon or Canon, they were the best camera's. And that you did pay for that. After saying Pentax did offer more for less the money he became angry and I can't get into that shop anymore. But now I'm still pleased with buyin the K5 last July, most Canon&Nikon camera did offer the same for at least 200 euro more then what I spent on my K5.
01-04-2013, 04:49 AM   #41
Senior Member
em-tx's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 206
QuoteOriginally posted by Khashoggi Quote
Funny fact is, at the end of the summer of 2011 when some standard problems with the K200 started I started to look around. And at 2 shops they both almost said the same, the Pentax camera's around against Nikon and Canon on that time were much better, more possibility's, better camera's for less money and a lot more options with old lenses then Canon or Nikon. Only point of view they had was with newer lenses, that Pentax was behind with that on Canon and Nikon. But that in opposite of mainly Canon, older lenses kept working fine, and that they do work, instead of Canon and also Nikon, you didn't have to wonder if they would work, it just would even with lenses of 30-40 years ago. And even the quality of the lenses was less then the ones of Pentax. I just had one shop who said that even older lenses wouldn't work correctly on Nikon or Canon, they were the best camera's. And that you did pay for that. After saying Pentax did offer more for less the money he became angry and I can't get into that shop anymore. But now I'm still pleased with buyin the K5 last July, most Canon&Nikon camera did offer the same for at least 200 euro more then what I spent on my K5.
Similar story here, just now. I was on hunt of DSLR for long time - in central EU. Everybody tried to turn me into CANIKON - major argument was that K5 is excellent but whole roadmap does not make a sense. Pentax is not viewed as pro mark, since it lacks FF. Shop assistant was saying to me, than I need new digital lenses, cause old one does not fit due optics principle for "real" or "pro" work, not due to mount. (Rays if light on digital lens suppose to go as straight to hit a sensor, while old lenses are not so precise, since film does not require that, therefor lowering resolution.) I am not sure he was right, but I had no knowledge to oppose. However I bought K5 and I am happy and this extra 200Eur I can - did spent on lens.
Pentax does something really stupid - one service center in Hamburg (even fast) for central EU - Germany, Austria, Czech rep. and Slovakia as far as I know and very high prices for local resellers comparing to inet. I wonder why. But this costs them lot of presence on the market, even K30 is breaking into electronic chain markets.
Not to mention, that if K5 is able to compete with 5D mark II, manual video control - or allowing to mod the FW would rocket their sales. There is big market of different pro artists, which are using DSLR for video work (on different levels) and K5 would ideal in terms of build quality, image quality, portability, lens selection (even they would need to inspire another manufacturer Samyang? to do video lens-or themsleves), price point.
My perception of mark in place I live is, that you need to buy the CANIKON, because thats the pro marks doing it right. People are lot of times washed out and buy APS-C from CANIKON, because thats the best and best for buck and offers possible growith with mark (towards better of FF models) - regardless if its realistic, needed or true.
I wish Pentax think it over....
01-04-2013, 05:30 AM   #42
Senior Member
Khashoggi's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: IJsselstein
Posts: 152
QuoteOriginally posted by em-tx Quote
Not to mention, that if K5 is able to compete with 5D mark II, manual video control - or allowing to mod the FW would rocket their sales. There is big market of different pro artists, which are using DSLR for video work (on different levels) and K5 would ideal in terms of build quality, image quality, portability, lens selection (even they would need to inspire another manufacturer Samyang? to do video lens-or themsleves), price point.
My perception of mark in place I live is, that you need to buy the CANIKON, because thats the pro marks doing it right. People are lot of times washed out and buy APS-C from CANIKON, because thats the best and best for buck and offers possible growith with mark (towards better of FF models) - regardless if its realistic, needed or true.
I wish Pentax think it over....
Most people I know don't buy a DSLR camera to make movies with. And the K5 or any Pentax camera may not the best to make movies with, it's a great camera to take photo's with. And that's for me the main reason, except for work, to buy a DSLR camera. And so many people I know are surprised by the price and quality you get with Pentax, which they don't get with their canon or Nikon.
01-04-2013, 05:52 AM   #43
Banned




Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NY/Germany
Posts: 1,183
QuoteOriginally posted by Khashoggi Quote
Most people I know don't buy a DSLR camera to make movies with. And the K5 or any Pentax camera may not the best to make movies with, it's a great camera to take photo's with. And that's for me the main reason, except for work, to buy a DSLR camera. And so many people I know are surprised by the price and quality you get with Pentax, which they don't get with their canon or Nikon.
You are one of the people on internet brand/product forums that defends a product's shortcoming or lack of competitiveness with peers by saying such things in bold.

There are people that want to use the feature or the capability. You might not be able to imagine it, but it's true. It's also likewise backwards, ancient thinking, which is so prevalent in the imaging industry, to somehow think that adding a feature will compromise the basic imaging, as we're seeing is not the case here, so that shoots down that implication.

Like it or not, for all its flaws, the 5DII became perhaps the choice of pros not only because it had great IQ, but also had great video, which was exploited by movie studios who are now shooting shows and movies using them. It revolutionalized how people see cameras and motion picture production. You shouldn't strive to maintain and support mediocrity, but support forward thinking.

The problem is there's perpetually a large slice of people in photography (usually the ones that are more into the spec sheets and gadget factor than shooting) that never want change. We had a significant number when the transition from film to digital took place, megapixels, screens, mf vs. AF, and so on.

It's baffling how resistant some people are to change, evolution, and the benefits of improved tech, which even the K-5 is clearly and obviously a product of.

Last edited by snake; 01-04-2013 at 06:00 AM.
01-04-2013, 06:18 AM   #44
Pentaxian
VisualDarkness's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Uppsala, Sweden
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 4,439
If the K-5 get hacked and get something like Magic Lantern it would also become really good with video. But for things to get hacked like that they need to be of great value to a lot of people interested in additional function and you can't deny that the professional userbase of the 5D Mark II is way bigger than the one for the K-5. It's not only Canon that is creating the video performance of their cameras.
01-05-2013, 02:08 AM   #45
Junior Member
sarahparish91's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Orange, NSW
Photos: Albums
Posts: 34
On a similar topic, I find it really odd that some pro photographers will laugh at you if you ask them what they use as "it's not the camera, but the person behind it", which I do agree with, but then some of those same photographers will look at you like an alien if you say you use a pentax. And chances are, they've never even shot with one!
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
camera, pentax, pentax help, photography, products
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Why is Pentax messed up? photoman1 Photographic Industry and Professionals 28 12-13-2012 09:00 AM
Why is the K7 so terrible? or rather why am i having such a problem with it? runslikeapenguin Pentax DSLR Discussion 60 05-01-2012 01:16 PM
Macro Two Neglected Brothers 2grahamb Post Your Photos! 7 01-06-2012 04:01 PM
Green Pentax Km is not coincidence, this is why.. HermanLee Pentax News and Rumors 41 04-08-2009 06:19 AM
This is why Pentax is so amazing as a company macdaddy Post Your Photos! 3 04-19-2007 03:48 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:03 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top