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01-15-2013, 10:11 AM   #91
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I agree with what has been said here, most established Pros are already heavily invested in the system of their choice, and changing it is in all likelihood not practical or financially feasible. That is my first choice in why Pentax is "neglected".

The first, and currently only, SLR I bought was a Z20, for an intermediate photography course I did a number of years ago. It came with a couple of lenses, and I have added one or two on since then. This is the reason I am staying with Pentax, plus the fact that I can use legacy glass on a brand-new Pentax. So yes, if I eventually turn Pro, as is my desire, I will stay with Pentax as I am already invested in the system, and it has served me well over the years.

I could care less if a lens is big and clunky, or small and refined, if it gives me the results, I will use it. I have shot at events where there are numerous Pros with their Canikons and monster lenses, compared to me and my 100-300. Funnily enough, had friendly chats with most of them as well, without any animosity re. what cameras we are using.

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01-15-2013, 10:27 AM   #92
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QuoteOriginally posted by SirBismuth Quote
I agree with what has been said here, most established Pros are already heavily invested in the system of their choice, and changing it is in all likelihood not practical or financially feasible. That is my first choice in why Pentax is "neglected".
I strongly disagree with this because statements like this ignore a significant piece of reality, one that I see personally nearly everyday and when I'm actually on assignments:

Young people and beginners of all ages entering photography. Most of the pros I'm out shooting with are in their mid-late 20s already.

Your assertion there is based on a fixed point, that all the people in photography right now are already in it, not more people than ever getting into it, either to buy a gizmo or leaving photography school, or entering and going pro (small number) nearly immediately. These people are without equipment and can go anywhere they want with it, so it's hardly a matter of all people picking Canon and Nikon because they're already in photography and have their lens investment in.
01-15-2013, 10:40 AM   #93
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In my humble opinion, pentax is just not professional.
I dont mean "pro" in a photgraphic, IQ or build quality way, but in doing business.

Let me give you three examples i encountered personally ( nothing like " a friend of a friend whos brother heard about it"

Example 1:

Tradefair in Bochum(Germany) in 2011(or 12) i was there to see some intresting stuff and because i wanted to satisfy my LBA.
The CSO for Germany, Austria and Switzerland was there as well. We had some nice discussions... the Sales-Rep who attended as well had: 1 Body and around 4 Lenses with him provided by Pentax, the other lenses (mainly ltds) were provided by HIMSELF...
-> how can pentax send a SalesRep with 5 Items to a tradefair?

Example 2:
Tradefair in Konstanz (Germany,Switzerland), the SalesRep showed 3 Bodies, 6 Lenses, the brand new(and really interesting stuff) 100Macro WR......was not there...ltds weren't seen as well on that occasion....

Example 3:
A Pentax Try-Out annouced 3 Days befors christmas in Germany, Austria and Switzerland by the Pentaxnewsletter. I phoned my "pentax premium partner" to ask for modalities and his answer was: "we dont have any clue, we got the same email today"....
Of course there were no Items to rent at this point in time... the SalesRep was not there...
. Today 3Weeks later i visited the shop and asked again the answer i got this time was "yeah we have the box with stuff we can lend, but we dont know the modalities by the SalesRep"
Different people in different cities in this region Germany,Austria and Switzerland used this event, everbody had different things to do to rent the Pentax gear it started with things like:
1. people were asked to deposit a security in the same amount of the whole gear...
2.people had to pay for the use
3.no lenses included (you had to rent them seperatly)

What makes me sad about all that is the screaming incompetence in this work. Unimportant question arise from that event:

1. Why annouced such an event OVER christmas time and not before, so people could try it out for christmas?
2.Why are the PremiumPartners are informed by the newsletter?
3.Why wasnt there any other ad oder hint for this event, except the newsletter (which is kind of nerdy, because it is recieved by people already knowing pentax)
4.Why weren't there clear and known guidelines?


I think all this stuff doesnt make it more appealing to work with Pentax ( from a shop-owners perspectiv) and it is quite annoying to see this things happen, because its just stupid...

Last edited by Ash; 01-15-2013 at 12:29 PM.
01-15-2013, 10:49 AM   #94
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Yeah, Pentax AT/CH/DE is a complete disaster.

I love how they post, which I have screenshots of, that they will be having giveaways of K-01s and K-30s on Facebook, then the time comes and goes and no one utters a word.

I call, can't get them. I email for parts or prices, don't get emails back.

Local premium dealers are frustrated with them, especially with SDM stuff (an experience I have and why I don't own SDM lenses) enough that they now have to charge processing fees for customers they've counseled on the risks involved with SDM up front before the purchase.

01-15-2013, 11:33 AM   #95
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QuoteOriginally posted by snake Quote
I strongly disagree with this because statements like this ignore a significant piece of reality, one that I see personally nearly everyday and when I'm actually on assignments:

Young people and beginners of all ages entering photography. Most of the pros I'm out shooting with are in their mid-late 20s already.

Your assertion there is based on a fixed point, that all the people in photography right now are already in it, not more people than ever getting into it, either to buy a gizmo or leaving photography school, or entering and going pro (small number) nearly immediately. These people are without equipment and can go anywhere they want with it, so it's hardly a matter of all people picking Canon and Nikon because they're already in photography and have their lens investment in.
I do acknowledge that the people only now getting into photography, and have their choice of equipment, and inevitably end up with Canon or Nikon. I put these down to Pentax's marketing strategy, or lack thereof. Every photography-related shop or expo you go to will have Canon and Nikon literature and equipment in your face, but there is no, or very little, sign of Pentax. Also, the support network of those two is streets ahead of anything Pentax has to offer.

Take it here in South Africa, Pentax is hardly promoted, even by the official distributor, who seems to have lost interest in Pentax, and is rather promoting their other brands. Plus, it's actually cheaper to import gear, like I am doing with the K-30, than source it locally.

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01-15-2013, 11:45 AM   #96
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QuoteOriginally posted by SirBismuth Quote
Every photography-related shop or expo you go to will have Canon and Nikon literature and equipment in your face, but there is no, or very little, sign of Pentax
I fail to see what's wrong with that. Or is it the deficiency and incompetence of Pentax management?

From what I've seen contacting Ricoh about Pentax issues and my hopes for future development, it was strongly implied by Ricoh's management that Pentax is still under their own command, but financially under Ricoh.

This is something I find to be a bad move on Ricoh's part. Pentax has done some phenomenal things in the last 4 years, but they've also had great mistakes.
01-15-2013, 01:39 PM   #97
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QuoteOriginally posted by SirBismuth Quote
Take it here in South Africa, Pentax is hardly promoted, even by the official distributor, who seems to have lost interest in Pentax, and is rather promoting their other brands.
Same here in Sweden. One person who asked the distributor at the Stockholm Photo Fair about the lack of the Q-series on the small Pentax table they simply answered him that "They don't sell enough". How are people supposed to buy things they don't know about? I complained on the very active American Pentax Facebook page and they simply answered that they are the American division. I understand that it's not directly their area but the bad presence in Scandinavia etc indirectly affect them too so I hope they forward the complain to Japan.
01-15-2013, 04:25 PM   #98
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In my opinion, from a business strategy standpoint, they are either going to be an internet distribution company or a retail presence company. With this type of purchase, making a go of it on-line only is tough, but not impossible. I owned part of a furniture company that tried this and failed. They need to do something to distinguish themselves that way if it's their plan.

If on-line is not their plan, then they've got a distribution problem right now. They obviously have some loyal customers, but they're missing out on a lot of market share. We all seem to believe that their products beat out competitor's offerings on several points, but the reach of that story is limited right now.

Not that I should know better than them how to run their business. If their internal costs are lower because their logistics are more simple and it's working out for their bottom line, then maybe it's a good play.

To the title of this tread, I don't think they're neglected. It's just a store presence issue. Maybe a smart one, maybe not.

01-15-2013, 11:57 PM   #99
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Also, Pentax, at least in DE/AT/CH doesn't really sponsor anyone. In fact, I'm shooting with Pentax, got nowhere with Pentax with talking about sponsorship and testing, oddly getting somewhere with Nikon, who gave me clear goals to reach, a solid contact that checks in from time to time and voices interest, and so on.

It looks like possibly in a year to two, I'll be shooting with Nikon, whether or not I want to stay with Pentax, because it seems Pentax isn't interested in sponsoring anyone. The last email contact I had with Pentax basically said that they can't sponsor anyone due to not having the money or resources to do it.

No sponsorships of people that have some exposure, Pentax gets no exposure and the circle starts. The K-5 is a great camera, but people like me, who are starting out, are as crippled as the crippled company behind it. We can't even rely on them for spare parts and services. THis is why I consider Pentax, at this stage, more of a beginner's company. I don't even shoot Nikon, but they are orienting me into their world for a potential future with them as I work towards going pro. Pentax treats its customers poorly, for the most part.

Last edited by snake; 01-16-2013 at 01:10 AM.
01-16-2013, 05:34 AM   #100
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Pentax, a beginner's company? What novice niche is it servicing with the 645D? There's more to it than just labelling the company 'poor' in customer service. I think time will tell and 2013-14 will turn things around for Pentax.
01-16-2013, 06:48 AM   #101
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Okay so we've got folks here who are pro or turning, or others like myself who is a hobbyist.

So as a hobbyist I personally do not like Nikon or Canons consumer grade cameras and lenses. I feel Pentax has better offerings, and I know they're not perfect, but they're are a darn site better than the canikon junk.

If Canon and Nikon are these superdooper brands for professionals, than why are their consumer cameras so bad. Why? I'll tell you why, because Canon and Nikon PREDATE the consumer shmucks and schmoes, and sell them cameras that leave you begging for something better - Its call creative destruction.
Eg.
Here's a Nikon consumer camera "X, Y or Z" - its substandard but the consumer doesn't know this - and the consumer buys it. That consumer - thinking Nikon is a super brand - try's everything to get good pictures but fails because: the cameras sensor is poor; it can't meter; it can't or won't auto focus; the processing engine is poor; the AA filter is made of recycled plastic coke bottles !; User Interface freezes; no mirror lockup. This nikon and canon junk just leaves you wanting something better, and needing to upgrade to a marginally better model. And if you've invested in lenses, you're more or less stuck.

The cheap and nasty Nikon and Canon consumer grade cameras are what subsidizes the professional equipment and all the programs. I've heard about Canon sponsoring professional photographers by GIVING them complete systems with lenses - this is what the Nikon guys used to complain about !

Snake, it seems you can't smell a rat in all of this (pardon the pun).

I am personally considering studying photography in the future and certain colleges demand that students have either a 5D or D700 (Only ! no Sony A900's, A99's). Plus a full compliment of lenses ranging from 12mm - 200mm, plus primes - do students get sponsored? I think not. If I HAVE to get a FF for study, I'd get a Canon 5DIII (sets a new standard in low light) and third party lenses - third party everything else - OUT OF PRINCIPLE !

If Pentax makes a full frame system, then the schools and colleges could be the place to start its marketing like it did in the past. If Pentax can produce a quality FF camera and just re-brand some chunky sigma and tamron lenses, they'll have some success. But in the face of the canikon chauvinism and fanatical brand loyalty (through FREE GEAR sponsorship also), it'll be a high mountain to climb.

So going "pro" with Canon and Nikon is like selling out to the devil, who are ripping off the general public - thats why they can GIVE you the gear, and call it "sponsorship" ! And as far as I understand, Pentax is just a smidge off the pace with flash and lenses, so if they nip that in the bud, they'll be golden !


QuoteOriginally posted by voyager13 Quote
Hi guys,

You may or may not have noticed that the world loves Canon/Nikon, or so it gives the impression to me. I find work posted by those two brands all over the internet. Kelby training, Lynda.com and many more do trainings about Canon and Nikon products, but not Pentax. I know that Pentax is no less, just maybe the range of products may not be as much as the big two, but with Sigma,Tamron, Samyang etc offering quality lenses for Pentax there shouldn't be a shortage of images on the web. But that's not the case, or am I missing something?
Is it the marketing game that is being played? or is there more to it?
So for the guy that originally made this thread, these dubious goings-on that Canon and Nikon engage in in respect to "Free Equipment Sponsorship" gives another dimension and insight into the underhandedness of these corporations. Are these discussions answering your question: "am I missing something".

Peddling photographic equipment is a dirty game ! lol

Last edited by Tom S.; 01-16-2013 at 06:57 AM. Reason: Removed offensive comment
01-16-2013, 07:14 AM   #102
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No Pentax in my house is neglected. So the title is misleading at best. Saying that Pentax is neglected because they don't have all the bells and whistles in their pro line is also a a scam position. Less than .05% of people who purchase cameras are pros, and need pro support or services. When I'm out with the "herds", the wildlife and landscape photographers who get shots of the moose and deer with the big racks and I see a bunch of people who mostly use Canon and Nikon, set up on the roads, because they can't carry their gear more than 50 yards, I see some people who have made some really bad decisions. The guy who defined wild life photography around here for years shot Pentax. To him, mobility was worth more that "pro services". In the bush "pro services" aren't worth squat.

When I see those guys lined up with their tripods set up on the road like it was a camera bay, I'm not thinking "I wish I was one of those guys". I'm thinking "I wish I was the guy who sold them that stuff." Or the guy who sold them the "wildlife package" and brought them and their gear up here in that elongated van. Their gear is impressive, their enthusiasm is commendable, but their pictures are all taken within 30 feet of the highway, and most of them look like it.
01-16-2013, 07:17 AM   #103
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I see now. Pentax isn't professional because they will not give someone free stuff. Cool, now I know what constitutes professional.

Last edited by VoiceOfReason; 01-16-2013 at 07:19 AM. Reason: eye kant spel
01-16-2013, 09:35 AM   #104
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QuoteOriginally posted by snake Quote
So you're only talking about bodies, while people need complete systems to actually take pictures.
On the contrary, complete systems are not necessary to take pictures. Complete systems merely make it easier for pros and deep pocket advanced amateurs to pursue their photographic goals. The vast majority of photographers will never be able to afford the costs associated with taking advantage of a "complete" system.

QuoteOriginally posted by snake Quote
Canon and Nikon make great cameras. That's all. Pentax makes a good camera. Also, the D7000 is very close, in my testing, to the K5. I still went with the K-5, but I wouldn't find a single thing lacking if I was on a D7000.
Yes, Canon and Nikon make great cameras. But the K-5 is also a great camera as well. And for those of us who can't afford professional support or expensive pro FF lenses, the K-5 is a better system camera as well. The D7000 is also a terrific camera; but the K-5 and the D7000 are more semi-pro or prosumer cameras, rather than professional cameras. They're better suited for hobbyists and advanced amateurs. In other words, for photographers who don't really need (and probably can't afford) pro support. If you abstract away the pro support, the K-5 is, in some ways, a better system camera than the D7000 because Pentax has more high quality APS-C lenses than does Nikon.

As a small company, Pentax can't be all things to all people. It's just not possible. A professional system camera is expensive to produce and only makes sense for companies with a large user-base who can leverage economies of scale. But Pentax can fill niches being ignored by the big two. If you're a landscape/outdoor photographer who can't afford an FF system, the K-5 is the best system camera available right now. Pentax merely has to figure out how to get more consumers to appreciate this fact.
01-16-2013, 12:45 PM   #105
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QuoteOriginally posted by VoiceOfReason Quote
I see now. Pentax isn't professional because they will not give someone free stuff. Cool, now I know what constitutes professional.
I don't believe you interpreted that post the way it should be. Pentax entry level models are excellent cameras. They hardly lack features considered professional in higher end Canon and Nikon cameras. But the Pentax enthusiast has only to look forward to 'upgrading' his entry level tool to an advanced APS-C in the K-5 if he/she wanted to take the next step in their career or hobby. The desire to advance to a larger format, whether a real or perceived need, cannot be provided by Pentax. Let's face it, a newbie is unlikely going to develop his craft to want to advance to a 645D. But a good proportion of enthusiasts with go for a 5D or D600/D800. So as much as it is satisfying the customer with yet another upgrade option in their lineup, Pentax fulfil another niche that fits nicely within their core business of being a brand for photographers by photographers.
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