Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
01-17-2013, 05:34 PM   #121
Pentaxian
normhead's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Near Algonquin Park
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 23,726
QuoteQuote:
Going WR ? Yes, but some DSLR arent WR
The "top notch" limiteds arent WR either.
Outdoors I carry an DA 18-135 and a DA* 60-250. That covers 18-250 in two very good lenses. One on one camera body, one on the other, the whole package is weather sealed. I'm not sure every lens needs to be WR. Who else has that?

QuoteQuote:
Going Outdoor? Where is a WR Flash, ? Maybe things like Wireless!!! Tethering

Going Professional? Where are FF, Local Shops, Service Partners ? Renting-Services?
I'm outdoors all the time, I've never needed an WR flash. I've never needed wireless or tethering. Is there Local SHops, Service Partners in your outdoors. I guess that's the city outdoors. There isn't a Canikon store within 100 km of me. The Pentax rep stops in every couple of weeks, I can get whatever I want from them. Honestly, the Canikon guys have nothing I don't have, but the ability to see cheap gear before they buy it. Any pro gear has to be ordered in.

QuoteQuote:
I just want to point out that pentax doesnt make it clear to customers and professionals which path they go.
And even if they say it, we are too stubbord to believe them, anyone recalls that interview where they said "yes we are working on a FF-DSLR which well be top-notch".... No because there is non, but despite that we have some funny people who see the mystical Pentax FF-DSLR around the next corner...
Pentax's path is really clear to me. Take what they make or use someone else's gear. You'll give up a lot of ruggedness and versatility and to get better results you're going to pay more money.

What they said is they were developing an FF but whether or not it would ever go in to production is up to the marketing department. That's clear enough for me. Obviously if they put the money into the RD the logical result is the way to get that money back is to manufacture an FF camera, but remember this is the company that got burned making an FF camera and having it fall apart because they got burned by the company that was to produce their sensor. They'll announce an FF when they have it ready for production. They already announced an FF once and had it fall apart.

QuoteQuote:
If iam buying new DSLR related things i think iam going to switch to Nikon with 14mm-200mm f2,8 G Lenses (14-24, 24-70, 70-200) next spring or summer.
Not because i absolutly need something like that, but because i can and i want to see what this lineup can deliver.
Will it make me an as good as most of you photographer? No, most likely not, but i can slowly work my way up with better lenses, accessory etc.
I priced out a D800 with those lenses. You're talking upwards of 8k with no primes. And you're comparing that to Pentax APS-c. YOu have a lot more money to play with than most Pentax customers, but if you read through the threads, you'll see a lot of D800 owners keep and still use their Pentax gear. The thing is, for you, you aren't on any price performance strategy. You are on the "I have a lot of money and I'm going to take a trip around the camera world." cruise. I look at what I'm getting for my money and what the chances of it repaying me are. For me, I have to sell a lot of pictures to make 8K after expenses. I guess it's not "professional" like to consider such things.

If your purchases are based on personal exploration, then that's a whole different kettle of fish. You could easily be a Nikon user posting about how you're going to try out Pentax, and your opinions are formed on things other than value for money, or price performance, or anything we could probably discuss rationally.

I tend to see posts like the quoted post the rumination of rich amateurs, not working pros.

Here's the thing that keeps me from going FF.

The equivalent to my 60-250 F4 is going to cost me 8 thousand dollars. With the $8000 mentioned above, the minimum D800 system I'd be happy with by itself without APS-c for telephoto work, would be $16,000, probably over 20k with all the bells and whistles. Is that what you mean by "plan"? Ya plan to separate you from your money. That would give me twice the resolution I have now. If and when I ever find an economic reason to blow that kind of money on images larger than I now produce, it will be because I have a contract that will pay for it. I'm not sure my customers care or even notice any lack of resolution in my images. Resolution is way behind composition in terms of the saleability of an image.


Last edited by normhead; 01-17-2013 at 05:52 PM.
01-18-2013, 12:45 AM   #122
Senior Member




Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Innsbruck
Posts: 283
Well normhead, because you did so much effort to dismantle my post, let me return the favor.

QuoteQuote:
One on one camera body, one on the other, the whole package is weather sealed. I'm not sure every lens needs to be WR. Who else has that?
Nobody has, but whats the point in offering a "low-budget" entry DSLR when you have to pay 4x times the price for the good lenses ? As far as i know there are 3 non DA*s. 18-135, 18-55, 50-200, we are still missing a low and highend WR Wideangle (maybe you can accept that this might be usefull in landscape/outdoor photography)

QuoteQuote:
needed an WR flash. I've never needed wireless or tethering
Yep, and because you didnt need it, it is useless :S

QuoteQuote:
Is there Local SHops, Service Partners in your outdoors. I guess that's the city outdoors
You are right again, here where i live the population density denies "being 100km away from other people" and the "Pentax Rep" is something like not existent. If i wanted to buy the Gear mentioned above i could just enter in 2 to 3 different Shops and could just "take" it. But on the other side, you can die on a mountain even if you are just 5 miles away from a hospital and you cant be found, so yeah i wouldn't call that "city outdoors"....


You comment about the FF-DSLR is not that usefull in that context. I couldn't care less about Pentax R&D a FF, if the marketing stops it. There are two important sides of the FF-Medal, there is one, or there is none.

QuoteQuote:
I priced out a D800 with those lenses. You're talking upwards of 8k with no primes. And you're comparing that to Pentax APS-c. YOu have a lot more money to play with than most Pentax customers,
1. Your price is right, in Europe we have to pay around 7500€ which is even more money
2. I NEVER compared this lineup with my pentax gear, I want to "upgrade" not "switch systems",
3.Well, i think thats wrong, if you see how many people have so much different bodies and lenses and old lenses etc. i think you get the 8k quite often in this forum....



I dont need a price/performance- strategy, why ? i do it as a hobby and people easily invest more than double in a car or boat. Or even in electric railroads, Rc-Helicoters and planes.....
But despite not being a pro i sold enough pictures to pay my gear once and i have the possibily to attend to some very nice events as an accredited photographer.

Last but not least i just want to mention that the nikon gear above can be purchased easily over a period of time and is an "upgrade"path which is not possible in the Pentax-System (which i deeply regred).


But let us stop that now, i do understand that you are the professional photographer and you alone have the right to judge which things are usefull and which arn't, people who arn't away 100km from the next city arn't allowed to talk about outdoors. And people who buy a D800 etc. cant be pros because the dont have a price/performace strategy...

Last edited by Mehlsack; 01-18-2013 at 01:42 AM.
01-18-2013, 08:02 AM   #123
Pentaxian
normhead's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Near Algonquin Park
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 23,726
Good luck in the future then. The D800 offers great price performance if you're talking dollars per LW/PH. SO if what you're looking for is more detail in larger prints, then it's a good upgrade path even for a Pentaxian, although most Pentaxians are a long way from actually wanting to print images at a size that would take advantage of that. I'm still hoping for a Pentax 645 at 70 MP for around 6k-7k. An FF camera still seems like a bit of a tweener to me. heavier and more costly than APS-c, but not what a pro-landscape camera should be. A 70 MP 645 with a couple of short A lenses would be the ideal, using current technology, at least in my book.

Last edited by normhead; 01-18-2013 at 08:08 AM.
01-18-2013, 08:28 AM - 1 Like   #124
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Texas
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 23,735
All I know.....when I use my K5, I find very little not to love about it. I'm not a huge Pentax supporter, in fact I think they could do much better in many areas, including marketing, but in the end you pick up your camera no matter the brand, and shoot. It performs to your satisfaction or it doesn't. The K5 performs, and it performs as well or better than almost anything out there in or near its class. I can whine about WR lenses not being more available, no WR flashes, or a dozen other things....none of which I use or would use, but the bottom line is always the same, my K5 is a winner even at a couple of years of age. For the vast majority of us, this is undeniable, we see it every day when we shoot. I'm happy just to have it, wish more people were aware of the abilities of the K5 line of cameras, and feel certain Pentax will move forward at a pace that will never please the "herd", but will please me. As much as I like most of you guys, I'm the only one here I have to please!

Regards!

01-18-2013, 10:26 AM   #125
Site Supporter
gofour3's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 5,121
QuoteOriginally posted by Reliant K1000 Quote
I wonder if other Canadians will chime in here...I find that since we have a major chain here on the west coast that carries Pentax (London Drugs) it's not quite as bad a phenomenon as it is elsewhere. Availability is OK, thanks to them, but certainly Pentax is not as ubiquitous as others.

Even in the film days you were seen to be a bit of an also-ran if you shot with a Pentax rather than a Nikon or Canon. This divide has only increased since the digital era. But give them their due, I think they're getting more on track now that Ricoh has taken the helm, and I'm hopeful that they can elevate Pentax a bit more.

But I don't think that they ever will be as beloved by the general public as a Canon or Nikon. Which is fine, really - I just don't want them to leave the scene altogether!
Pentax has always been easy to find in Vancouver. (Kerrisdale Cameras, Leo’s Camera, Lens & Shutter and Broadway Cameras)

I would recommend getting Pentax gear from one of these “brick & mortar” camera stores more than from a drug store chain. Kerrisdale Cameras has been around since the early 1960’s and Leo’s even longer. Both have very knowledgeable staff.

When I bought my first SLR in late 1975 I went to Kerrisdale Cameras on 41st. I was a teenager and had no clue as to which camera & lenses to by. The salesman recommended Pentax (not Nikon, Cannon or Olympus), as Pentax had just came out with the new “K Series” bodies & lenses.

Pentax was not an also-ran in the 1960’s to the mid 1980’s they were a major player back then. They had produced two of the biggest selling cameras of all time, the Spotmatic & K1000 and had two medium format systems the 6x7 and 645. The LX was also one of the best professional 35mm systems around.

Phil.
01-18-2013, 11:51 AM   #126
Pentaxian
troika's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Seattle, WA USA
Posts: 847
I may need to road trip to Vancouver. I could combine it with with a few other things.

Case in point on what they're missing out on by not having a brick and mortar presence in a lot of major markets. Still, I don't think they're neglected or disrespected in any inappropriate way, I just think they're between distribution models.

This has come up in other threads and I'll search for it, but if I (an American) were to buy a camera in Canada do I have a warranty issue of some kind?

Last edited by troika; 01-18-2013 at 12:49 PM.
01-18-2013, 12:29 PM   #127
Site Supporter
gofour3's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 5,121
QuoteOriginally posted by troika Quote
I may need to road trip to Vancouver. I could combine it with with a few other things.

Case in point on what they're missing out on by not having a brink and mortar presence in a lot of major markets. Still, I don't think they're neglected or disrespected in any inappropriate way, I just think they're between distribution models.

This has come up in other threads and I'll search for it, but if I (an American) were to buy a camera in Canada do I have a warranty issue of some kind?
It looks like you can get an International Warrenty card from Pentax US for a Canadian purchased item. I would give them a call to make sure, worse case is that you have to get your Pentax serviced in Vancouver.

Product Repair & Service - PENTAX Imaging USA

Phil.
01-18-2013, 12:34 PM   #128
Pentaxian
Dr_who's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 686
Here in Edmonton, Ab, Canada, you can find Pentax at London Drugs, McBains (which is in quite a few malls), Don's Photo, and the odd other place. Granted I'd be happy to see it at Best Buy and Futureshop ect.

01-23-2013, 06:43 AM   #129
Veteran Member
zoolander's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Brisbane
Photos: Albums
Posts: 334
We got people here reminiscing saying: "In high school I was a Line Backer, Center or a winger" (Or something to that effect), and making the nerds shine my shoes. Funny stories.

Seeing how we're reminiscing, In high school I was an ethnic getting into fist fights with toluene sniffing Australian Bogans - and then having to avoid school ! LOL But that's a sad story. I can't believe people inhale solvents to get high, anyway......

There have been many good points and ideas about how Pentax could do a better job of marketing their products.

But getting back to the initial question of this thread. I know a guy (A Nikon shooter) who paid for his own gear, he went to a major tennis open here and all the Canon guys were using free gear from Canon. The Canon "free gear for professionals" is a pretty aggressive marketing policy, but when the public attending the tournaments see the gear the pro's use, they put two and two together, and then buy Canon.

Turn on the 6 o'clock news, and the photojournalists in the footage are usually using Canon gear - how many of them are with the Canon "free gear for professionals" program ?

You see, you can't beat that kind of exposure, and Nikon have jumped on the bandwagon also. You can't beat Canons level of exposure (pardon the pun) during the TV news programs, the Canon label on the neck straps and the Canon gear gets splashed across the screen all the time in news stories. You can watch a press conference held by the government, and photographers are taking hundreds or even thousands of photographs - how many get published? Maybe just a few. Or is this all some kind of product placement strategy or conspiracy under the "free gear for professionals programs" ? You be the judge.

If there is ever a full frame Pentax - which there will be through creative destruction - perhaps Pentax may have to look at using photographers for product placement.

But what would that cost:

If Pentax ran a "free gear to professionals" program, they may need to supply 10,000 free camera systems to Europe, 10,000 to North America, 20,000 to Asia, 5,000 to South America and 5,000 to Africa. Okay that's 50,000 systems with body, Lenses and ancillaries, and I'm not including the infrastructure in terms of offices for loaner/repairs. If the retail value of each system is $8,000, and lets say the the wholesale value is $4,000, that works out to $200,000,000. Lets say I've over anticipated the demand for free gear and cut it by three quarters, and that would be 12,500 free systems GLOBALLY costing $50,000,000. Lets say, I'm wrong even further and we'll call it at $20,000,000 for free gear. Is a 20,000,000 dollar a year plus loss really gonna be the honest way to go. Or is this far cheaper than running prime time TV advertisements, probably it is.

How do you off-set that kind of loss/cost ? By hiking up prices for consumers, and exploiting them through creative destruction.

Does a Canon or Nikon consumer realize that the purchase of their camera PAID for the "professionals" toys? All this so we can watch them jockey for position to get the picture of some crook walking into court on the 6 o'clock news. (Is this the reason why people get into photography, to become a corporate weasel)

But why are we comparing a $1200 APS-C K-5 against $3000 to $4000 full frame Canons and Nikon's. You can get 3, or nearly 3 K-5's for the price of the others . So you should be happier paying less with Pentax because their marketing budget is virtually non-existent.

Pentax should just make really good cameras and lenses and offer them at reasonable prices. The weather resistant formula may be attractive to many buyers and that's a good marketing strategy. Actually they should offer a few really good lenses for cheap, because that too will lure people to buy Pentax like it did with me with Sony. The Sony 50mm, 35mm and 30mm macro have very good to pro level of resolution and are under $300 each (from memory).

Red bull doesn't even manufacture the Red bull drink, they are just a marketing company. Perhaps Pentax should take a leaf out of Red bulls book also.
01-23-2013, 08:11 AM   #130
Senior Member




Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Sweden
Posts: 185
Original Poster
Well said and summarized Zoolander. Just hope you don't get a 'snake'-bite(view earlier posts) soon
01-23-2013, 11:21 AM   #131
Veteran Member
bullitt_60's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 322
QuoteOriginally posted by zoolander Quote
Okay so we've got folks here who are pro or turning, or others like myself who is a hobbyist.

So as a hobbyist I personally do not like Nikon or Canons consumer grade cameras and lenses. I feel Pentax has better offerings, and I know they're not perfect, but they're are a darn site better than the canikon junk.

If Canon and Nikon are these superdooper brands for professionals, than why are their consumer cameras so bad. Why? I'll tell you why, because Canon and Nikon PREDATE the consumer shmucks and schmoes, and sell them cameras that leave you begging for something better - Its call creative destruction.
Eg.
Here's a Nikon consumer camera "X, Y or Z" - its substandard but the consumer doesn't know this - and the consumer buys it. That consumer - thinking Nikon is a super brand - try's everything to get good pictures but fails because: the cameras sensor is poor; it can't meter; it can't or won't auto focus; the processing engine is poor; the AA filter is made of recycled plastic coke bottles !; User Interface freezes; no mirror lockup. This nikon and canon junk just leaves you wanting something better, and needing to upgrade to a marginally better model. And if you've invested in lenses, you're more or less stuck.
Canon and Nikon both make excellent products. From entry level to pro systems, they have fantastic offerings. In fact, I believe that Canon's Rebel line is the best entry level cameras and Nikon makes the best prosumer cameras on the market. Now I prefer Pentax which is why I have a K-5 and not a D7000. Both companies make great glass, some of which is priced better than the Pentax equivalent.

Nikon and Canon did not get the lion's share of the market by making crap and scheming the entire photography world. Be careful making sweeping comments as you are likely to offend one of the many people on this forum that shoot with multiple systems.
01-23-2013, 11:26 AM   #132
Veteran Member
bullitt_60's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 322
QuoteOriginally posted by zoolander Quote
Does a Canon or Nikon consumer realize that the purchase of their camera PAID for the "professionals" toys? All this so we can watch them jockey for position to get the picture of some crook walking into court on the 6 o'clock news. (Is this the reason why people get into photography, to become a corporate weasel)
No they don't care and why would they? It's not our job to tell Canon how to advertise. Canon prices and markets their bodies as they see fit
01-23-2013, 12:52 PM   #133
New Member




Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: London UK
Posts: 12
This is why I bought a Pentax DSLR

1. I could use the K-mount fixed focal length lenses from my ancient Pentax ME Super kit.

This is a big plus which added to the flexibility of the off-the-shelf camera and could use my existing assets so I didn't feel they were going to waste. I now often go shooting without the 18-55 zoom but with one or two of my 35mm camera's 28mm, 50mm, 135mm and 200mm lenses. Much more compact than the zoom.

2. I wanted a red camera to match my corporate colour.



3. On specifications the K-x seemed a lot cheaper than the equivalent Samsung (which also apparently takes k-mount lenses) and the other brands.

I am surprised that Pentax did not make more of the fact that old k-mount lenses worked on DSLRs. I might have jumped from 35mm earlier and been locked in. Without that knowledge I might have been a potential customer of another brand.

Last edited by wedwardes; 01-24-2013 at 06:59 PM.
01-23-2013, 06:10 PM   #134
Forum Member




Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Alameda Island, CA
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 84
If I may poke my head in... Back in the late 70s and early 80s when I was in college, it was only the "rich kids" who had Nikons. My friends all had Olympus SLRs, which I really didn't like the build of. Nobody I knew had a Canon back then. There was Minolta, but they weren't all that prevalent, either, at least not that I saw. When I knew I finally wanted a "real" camera, I chose the Pentax K-1000 because I loved how simple and well-made it was, and at that point, the price was very reasonable. I loved it. Still have it. Only SLR I ever owned, until I dipped my toes into this digital mess. When I decided I would look at DSLRs finally, I only ever considered buying a Pentax. I loved my K-1000, and I figured if Pentax made me happy with that camera, they were bound to make a DSLR I would learn to love. Thus, when I read the review of the K-30 here, that was pretty much it. The K-5 seemed to be "too much" for what I was looking for. So far, I'm lovin' this K-30. I went to Half-Price Books here and ran into the "anti-Pentax" phenomenon right off the bat: absolutely NONE of the books on digital photography they had even MENTIONED Pentax as a brand. Lots of photos and books specific to certain Nikon or Canon models. No "Get the MOst out of your Pentax K-30" or whatever. Nothing. A huge hole where Pentax should be in the literature. And if it's a crime to be different, then great...I'm guilty. I guess if somebody wanted to shove a free camera and killer lens in my hand for free, I'd probably try it out and use it. But when it went to buying one, I bet I'd end up gravitating back to the brand that got me started 35 years or so ago. Just my two cents.
01-23-2013, 07:03 PM   #135
Pentaxian
normhead's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Near Algonquin Park
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 23,726
We are the "how to get the most out of your Pentax" book. If there's something you need to know someone here knows about it.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
camera, pentax, pentax help, photography, products
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Why is Pentax messed up? photoman1 Photographic Industry and Professionals 28 12-13-2012 09:00 AM
Why is the K7 so terrible? or rather why am i having such a problem with it? runslikeapenguin Pentax DSLR Discussion 60 05-01-2012 01:16 PM
Macro Two Neglected Brothers 2grahamb Post Your Photos! 7 01-06-2012 04:01 PM
Green Pentax Km is not coincidence, this is why.. HermanLee Pentax News and Rumors 41 04-08-2009 06:19 AM
This is why Pentax is so amazing as a company macdaddy Post Your Photos! 3 04-19-2007 03:48 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:48 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top