Full Frame

rlatjsrud · 01-09-2013, 12:50 PM

Hi I'm a Pentax user who becoming a photographer in this year. I really enjoy using K-5 with 16-50 everytime for several years since 2007(I used istD also.) When I read and study about composition, flash lights, and other things, I start to think about to change my camera gears for FF. I know that Crop sensor is still good but I wish to use better camera for my work. but Pentax does not have a FF body and lens(not film and crop lens that can compitable to FF). 645D could be good choice but It's tooooo expensive to me right now. Pentax have few lens and body for FF.

I'm really thinking to move to other brands for FF. but I can't let my Pentax away...

Should I wait for FF???

mrNewt · 01-09-2013, 12:53 PM

Who knows when it will happen ... nobody knows ...
They say this year something MIGHT happen ... but nobody knows nothing ...

Adam · 01-09-2013, 01:00 PM

Originally posted by rlatjsrud

Should I wait for FF???

Give Pentax one more year. Some sources are saying that their FF will finally be announced at the end of 2013 or early next year.

vladimiroltean · 01-09-2013, 01:07 PM

Originally posted by rlatjsrud

When I read and study about composition, flash lights, and other things, I start to think about to change my camera gears for FF. I know that Crop sensor is still good but I wish to use better camera for my work.

To be honest, the fullest frame camera in the world wouldn't make as big of an impact on your photos as composition and lighting.

**Just1MoreDave** · 01-09-2013, 02:36 PM

It's not just the camera, it's lenses too. You have to either have the lenses you need and figure they'll work, or figure Pentax will release something with the camera. They probably will release a 28-70 and a 70-200 with the camera, not because I am a Pentax insider but because they would be dumb not to. Something more specialized, maybe a really wide angle, you may have to wait longer for.

I think there are still too many unknowns: date of availability, price, lenses, and performance. I'd at least look at the cost of buying another brand's offering today, then what you might lose by selling in a year or two.

**baro-nite** · 01-09-2013, 03:26 PM

I wouldn't base my decision on a Pentax announcement that hasn't happened yet. If you need a 135-format ("full frame") sensor, buy it. If you don't need one but want one anyway, and this desire outweighs your preference to stick with Pentax, and you can afford it, buy it. A K-5 and * lens is certainly capable enough for pro-quality work, but there are applications where the larger sensor is a better choice, not to mention some of the other features where Pentax lags behind.

MPrince · 01-09-2013, 03:37 PM

In what way is an APS-C camera limiting your photography? If you need a 135 format camera to accomplish what you need in order to fulfill your work requirements, you should move on to a brand that fits your needs. After all, Pentax does not offer a 135 format camera and there is no way of knowing when one will be available.

**Lowell Goudge** · 01-09-2013, 11:38 PM

What I don't understand is why you think full frame is better? Better at what? The whole issue is more about composition of images than format. And this really only impacts if you are shooting either ultra wide or in some limited ways if you are shooting ultra fast and wide open trying to blurr the background, although that is just as easily managed by composition and control of the shooting.

In your post you mention composition (not format related at all) flash lights(not format related) and other things. Exactly what other things do you mean???

For me the whole full frame argument is blown way out of proportion by people marketing hugely expensive cameras with lower resolute than APS-C sensors, on the promise that they are somehow better

An argument that bigger individual pixels makes for lower noise is dying a merciful death with the ongoing improvements in sensor noise, just look at the progression of high ISO noise performance from K10 to K7 to K5 as an example. We can now shoot at ISO 5000 and get better results than you could with film at ISO 400. I have posted shots that prove this type of comparison in other threads.

So again, why is FF better?.

jsherman999 · 01-10-2013, 12:09 AM

Originally posted by Lowell Goudge

So again, why is FF better?.

At least a stop better SNR, more DOF control overall, and the capability to achieve higher resolution before diffraction takes an unacceptable toll.

It's better in these ways, but everyone has to decide if it's 'better enough' for what they need/want to do with photography.

(and the thought of the FA Limiteds on a FF Pentax body should give anyone a thrill

)

ihasa · 01-10-2013, 01:41 AM

I'm not sure, perhaps the OP is unsure about whether he needs to go FF but feels he is at the stage where he needs to add flash and other accessories, and is reticent to do so in case he opts to go FF in the future and therefore change systems. Another reason why it makes sense for Pentax to offer such a camera in their range.

Clavius · 01-10-2013, 02:30 AM

To anybody debating if a FF camera is required for a pro photographer or not: If a customer wants you to shoot FF, then it is a requirement.

I myself was never even interested in FF before I started doing paid assignments. Quickly though, I ran into customers requiring me to shoot FF. As a photographer it is not my job to debate their needs. It's chosing between either tending to their needs, or losing them.

Waiting for Pentax FF is like waiting for doomsday. There are new rumors all the time, and it is always just one year away. Solution is the same for both: Believe it when you see it, but don't put life on hold until it's really there. Need an FF camera? Then buy an FF camera.

snake · 01-10-2013, 03:45 AM

Originally posted by Clavius

To anybody debating if a FF camera is required for a pro photographer or not: If a customer wants you to shoot FF, then it is a requirement.

I myself was never even interested in FF before I started doing paid assignments. Quickly though, I ran into customers requiring me to shoot FF. As a photographer it is not my job to debate their needs. It's chosing between either tending to their needs, or losing them.

Waiting for Pentax FF is like waiting for doomsday. There are new rumors all the time, and it is always just one year away. Solution is the same for both: Believe it when you see it, but don't put life on hold until it's really there. Need an FF camera? Then buy an FF camera.

On what grounds do they tell you to shoot FF?

Clavius · 01-10-2013, 04:38 AM

Originally posted by snake

On what grounds do they tell you to shoot FF?

Only three of my customers have this requirement. One customer just has it as a standard requirement for their photographers. The two others are convinced that it goes without saying that pro's shoot FF, because of the superior IQ.

If their reasons are correct or not, doesn't matter at all. They're the customer.

ihasa · 01-10-2013, 05:50 AM

If they stipulated FF but didn't actually see my camera, I would be very tempted to lie... The images should be judged on the quality alone, not a preconceived notion that only FF will do...

**Just1MoreDave** · 01-10-2013, 10:03 AM

It's pointless to debate whether the OP or customers really need a particular sensor format. They may not need FF but it's mostly their decision.

I really need Pentax's FF digital, and everyone to dump their inadequate APS-C gear on the market at 30% of its cost. My photos would improve a lot.

01-09-2013, 12:50 PM	#1
rlatjsrud Guest	Full Frame Hi I'm a Pentax user who becoming a photographer in this year. I really enjoy using K-5 with 16-50 everytime for several years since 2007(I used istD also.) When I read and study about composition, flash lights, and other things, I start to think about to change my camera gears for FF. I know that Crop sensor is still good but I wish to use better camera for my work. but Pentax does not have a FF body and lens(not film and crop lens that can compitable to FF). 645D could be good choice but It's tooooo expensive to me right now. Pentax have few lens and body for FF. I'm really thinking to move to other brands for FF. but I can't let my Pentax away... Should I wait for FF???

01-09-2013, 01:00 PM	#3
Adam Administrator Site Webmaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 51,597	Originally posted by rlatjsrud Should I wait for FF??? Give Pentax one more year. Some sources are saying that their FF will finally be announced at the end of 2013 or early next year. Adam PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide \| Site Help \| My Photography) PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating or purchasing one of our Pentax eBooks. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

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01-09-2013, 12:53 PM	#2
mrNewt Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: ON, RH Posts: 2,181	Who knows when it will happen ... nobody knows ... They say this year something MIGHT happen ... but nobody knows nothing ...

01-09-2013, 01:07 PM	#4
vladimiroltean Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Bucharest, Romania Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,465	Originally posted by rlatjsrud When I read and study about composition, flash lights, and other things, I start to think about to change my camera gears for FF. I know that Crop sensor is still good but I wish to use better camera for my work. To be honest, the fullest frame camera in the world wouldn't make as big of an impact on your photos as composition and lighting.

01-09-2013, 02:36 PM	#5
Just1MoreDave Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Aurora, CO Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,340	It's not just the camera, it's lenses too. You have to either have the lenses you need and figure they'll work, or figure Pentax will release something with the camera. They probably will release a 28-70 and a 70-200 with the camera, not because I am a Pentax insider but because they would be dumb not to. Something more specialized, maybe a really wide angle, you may have to wait longer for. I think there are still too many unknowns: date of availability, price, lenses, and performance. I'd at least look at the cost of buying another brand's offering today, then what you might lose by selling in a year or two.

01-09-2013, 03:26 PM	#6
baro-nite Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: North Carolina, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,295	I wouldn't base my decision on a Pentax announcement that hasn't happened yet. If you need a 135-format ("full frame") sensor, buy it. If you don't need one but want one anyway, and this desire outweighs your preference to stick with Pentax, and you can afford it, buy it. A K-5 and * lens is certainly capable enough for pro-quality work, but there are applications where the larger sensor is a better choice, not to mention some of the other features where Pentax lags behind.

01-09-2013, 03:37 PM	#7
MPrince Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: WV Posts: 1,495	In what way is an APS-C camera limiting your photography? If you need a 135 format camera to accomplish what you need in order to fulfill your work requirements, you should move on to a brand that fits your needs. After all, Pentax does not offer a 135 format camera and there is no way of knowing when one will be available.

01-09-2013, 11:38 PM	#8
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,891	What I don't understand is why you think full frame is better? Better at what? The whole issue is more about composition of images than format. And this really only impacts if you are shooting either ultra wide or in some limited ways if you are shooting ultra fast and wide open trying to blurr the background, although that is just as easily managed by composition and control of the shooting. In your post you mention composition (not format related at all) flash lights(not format related) and other things. Exactly what other things do you mean??? For me the whole full frame argument is blown way out of proportion by people marketing hugely expensive cameras with lower resolute than APS-C sensors, on the promise that they are somehow better An argument that bigger individual pixels makes for lower noise is dying a merciful death with the ongoing improvements in sensor noise, just look at the progression of high ISO noise performance from K10 to K7 to K5 as an example. We can now shoot at ISO 5000 and get better results than you could with film at ISO 400. I have posted shots that prove this type of comparison in other threads. So again, why is FF better?.

01-10-2013, 12:09 AM	#9
jsherman999 Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,237	Originally posted by Lowell Goudge So again, why is FF better?. At least a stop better SNR, more DOF control overall, and the capability to achieve higher resolution before diffraction takes an unacceptable toll. It's better in these ways, but everyone has to decide if it's 'better enough' for what they need/want to do with photography. (and the thought of the FA Limiteds on a FF Pentax body should give anyone a thrill )

01-10-2013, 01:41 AM	#10
ihasa Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: West Midlands Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,066	I'm not sure, perhaps the OP is unsure about whether he needs to go FF but feels he is at the stage where he needs to add flash and other accessories, and is reticent to do so in case he opts to go FF in the future and therefore change systems. Another reason why it makes sense for Pentax to offer such a camera in their range.

01-10-2013, 02:30 AM	#11
Clavius Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: De Klundert Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,150	To anybody debating if a FF camera is required for a pro photographer or not: If a customer wants you to shoot FF, then it is a requirement. I myself was never even interested in FF before I started doing paid assignments. Quickly though, I ran into customers requiring me to shoot FF. As a photographer it is not my job to debate their needs. It's chosing between either tending to their needs, or losing them. Waiting for Pentax FF is like waiting for doomsday. There are new rumors all the time, and it is always just one year away. Solution is the same for both: Believe it when you see it, but don't put life on hold until it's really there. Need an FF camera? Then buy an FF camera.

01-10-2013, 03:45 AM	#12
snake Banned Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: NY/Germany Posts: 1,183	Originally posted by Clavius To anybody debating if a FF camera is required for a pro photographer or not: If a customer wants you to shoot FF, then it is a requirement. I myself was never even interested in FF before I started doing paid assignments. Quickly though, I ran into customers requiring me to shoot FF. As a photographer it is not my job to debate their needs. It's chosing between either tending to their needs, or losing them. Waiting for Pentax FF is like waiting for doomsday. There are new rumors all the time, and it is always just one year away. Solution is the same for both: Believe it when you see it, but don't put life on hold until it's really there. Need an FF camera? Then buy an FF camera. On what grounds do they tell you to shoot FF?

01-10-2013, 04:38 AM	#13
Clavius Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: De Klundert Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,150	Originally posted by snake On what grounds do they tell you to shoot FF? Only three of my customers have this requirement. One customer just has it as a standard requirement for their photographers. The two others are convinced that it goes without saying that pro's shoot FF, because of the superior IQ. If their reasons are correct or not, doesn't matter at all. They're the customer.

01-10-2013, 05:50 AM	#14
ihasa Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: West Midlands Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,066	If they stipulated FF but didn't actually see my camera, I would be very tempted to lie... The images should be judged on the quality alone, not a preconceived notion that only FF will do...

01-10-2013, 10:03 AM	#15
Just1MoreDave Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Aurora, CO Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,340	It's pointless to debate whether the OP or customers really need a particular sensor format. They may not need FF but it's mostly their decision. I really need Pentax's FF digital, and everyone to dump their inadequate APS-C gear on the market at 30% of its cost. My photos would improve a lot.