Manual Lens focusing issues (focusing screen)

Akarak · 01-18-2013, 07:53 PM

Hello guys, i have read some posts about the canon matte focusing screen...
i use the stock k20d screen and with the pentax smc-m 50mm f1.4 its random focused pics and it's such a same because i really enjoy it and this specific camera..

i know there are katseye screens and some canon mark dii screen mods.. but my reall question is...

are there mate screens or any better/good screen drom canon for their crop sensor cameras?...
because the problem here, i can't really afford 120usd for or even 50 for that mater

for a "proper" screen

Thanks in advance for any feedback

tim60 · 01-18-2013, 08:28 PM

Another supplier of focusing screens is the Taiwanese business focusingscreen.com

I use one of theirs and am fairly happy. But it still does not meet your $50 threshold.

steve1307 · 01-18-2013, 08:36 PM

AFAIK the super fine matte screen Canon EEs is only for FF viewfinders. The "S-type" from focussingscreen .com is a cut down version of that (and more expensive due to the effort required in the surgery.

Most of the crop sensor cameras dont have real "proper" focusing screens because they darken the VF and with a smaller VF most purchasers want as much light coming in as possible. Most Canikon lenses these days are AF so no point having a matte screen. All the nice old Canon glass you can't use on their current bodies anyway.

Seems its only us Pentax users that used the old fast MF glass on crop sensor bodies.

I can thoroughly recommend the "S-type" screen but it is pricey.

When using the M 50 /1.4 actually at 1.4 when you need the focus accuracy you could always use the live-view function.

Actually <searches B&H> Canon does have 1 crop sensor S-type screen. All of the others are for 5D, 1D.
Canon EF-S Focusing Screen for EOS 40D & 50D SLR 2379B001 $39 which is the same price as the FF 5D version
The thing is, these still wont fit your K20D without surgery and are likely to be smaller since Canon has a 1.6x crop factor and these Cameras didnt have 100% viewfinders either.

Looks like the choices are $39 for the Canon FF version and DIY surgery (check out the EEs thread in the K-5 forum or see the accessory review)
Canon Eg-S Super Precision Matte Focusing Screen 3357B001 B&H
or buy the version available at focusingscreen.com for $80-$85
Focusing Screen

I chose the latter for my K-7, fitted it in under 10minutes and haven't looked back.

stevebrot · 01-18-2013, 08:40 PM

Originally posted by tim60

Another supplier of focusing screens is the Taiwanese business focusingscreen.com

I use one of theirs and am fairly happy. But it still does not meet your $50 threshold.

Too bad they recently raised their prices, but still, $80 USD is not bad for a Canon-derived precision matte screen.

Steve

Akarak · 01-18-2013, 08:46 PM

Thank you for your reply,

do you recomend any particular one for a non-pro photographer, the mate one is really the best one/more acurate?

acording to that site, the screen is canon made, type S, so i went and read about it but i have a doubt...

"Ec-S Super Precision matte. optimized for wide aperture lenses specifically those that have a maximum aperture of f1.8 - f2.8"

what happends when i use my lens above 2.8? can i still focus but as i raise the aperture will it get darker?
and if that's true, since i would only go above 2.8 on my *smc-m 35mm 2.8* in situations with lots of natural light, would i be able to "get away with it" ?

and when using digital lenses will it ruin the metering?

thank you very much and sorry for any broken english

VisualDarkness · 01-18-2013, 09:07 PM

Your English is no problem at all to understand, mine usually gets way worse than that when I get tired!

Both me and my brother thinks the S-type is easier to focus with than the stock K-5 screen even when it gets darker (slow lenses) due to the fact that it doesn't get as grainy. He got the stock K-5 screen and my S-type is pretty much always better in our eyes. Though I wouldn't say it would be worth the upgrade for slower lenses, but for your 1.4 it would be perfect. I don't know if the K20 stock screen is different than the K-5 though.

stevebrot · 01-18-2013, 09:17 PM

Originally posted by Akarak

Thank you for your reply,

do you recomend any particular one for a non-pro photographer, the mate one is really the best one/more acurate?

acording to that site, the screen is canon made, type S, so i went and read about it but i have a doubt...

"Ec-S Super Precision matte. optimized for wide aperture lenses specifically those that have a maximum aperture of f1.8 - f2.8"

what happends when i use my lens above 2.8? can i still focus but as i raise the aperture will it get darker?
and if that's true, since i would only go above 2.8 on my *smc-m 35mm 2.8* in situations with lots of natural light, would i be able to "get away with it" ?

and when using digital lenses will it ruin the metering?

thank you very much and sorry for any broken english

If you use the screen with a lens having a narrower maximum aperture, the viewfinder will be less bright than with a faster lens. That is the way it is, regardless of the screen you use. Your 28/2.8 should be fine.

Your choice of focus screens may affect metering when used with A-contact lenses, but it generally is not a problem. More troublesome is the general inaccuracy of your K20D's meter for stop-down metering with non-A-contact lenses such as your M 28/2.8. There are a number of threads on this site discussing the issue or you can PM me and I will tell you what I do with my K10D.

Steve

oxidized · 01-18-2013, 10:05 PM

Originally posted by stevebrot

Too bad they recently raised their prices, but still, $80 USD is not bad for a Canon-derived precision matte screen.

Steve

Well, when you add the shipping charges they end up being $100.

Still, the Canon screen is great and totally worth it!! Another option would be to look into a magnifying viewfinder. I also have the TENPA 1.36x which I purchased for around $40. Together with the Canon focusing screen I rarely miss a shot with my Vivitar 105 macro or my 50mm 1.4 Takumar.

Fogel70 · 01-18-2013, 11:43 PM

There are cheaper split screens available, but they might not be as good as katseye with slower lenses.

Dealextreme has some made for K20d for $20-25, and they have free shipping.
45 Degree 3-in-1 High Accuracy Focusing Screen for Pentax K10D/K20D - Worldwide Free Shipping - DX
180 Degree 3-in-1 High Accuracy Focusing Screen for Pentax K10D/D20D - Worldwide Free Shipping - DX

excanonfd · 01-18-2013, 11:52 PM

I was getting frustrated with the KatzEye split prism screen rendering the spot metering next to useless and I've read in one of the threads about this issue by the PF member Canada_Rockies mentioning the use of istD screen in K10D/K20D as the better solution for manual focus lenses than the stock screen. Here's his review of istD screen: PENTAX LL-60 AF Divided Matte (*istD, DS, DS2) reviews - Pentax Camera Accessory Review Database I found the istD screen a big improvement over the stock screen but the KatzEye split prism was still better and decided that I'll live with the crippled metering and chimp instead.

Where can you find one of this screen, I have no idea. Obviously, I have one but I'd want at least the lower threshold price you've mentioned since it cost me significantly more to have it shipped from Japan.

SyncGuy · 01-21-2013, 02:18 AM

Just get the Canon Ee-S screen from focusingscreen.com.

I'd recommend to get the one with the "Rule of Third" grid and nothing else...

There really is no other better screen out there in every aspect...

dlacouture · 01-21-2013, 02:34 AM

And the EE-S is simply the best "stop-downer" out there : it gives a near perfect linear metering with those old M or m42 lenses, regardless of the aperture used... No more wild roller-coaster rides depending on the aperture you use, it's a treat!

Clavius · 01-21-2013, 02:35 AM

I know that the Liveview on the K20D is pretty bad, but it's still better for manual focussing then any focussing screen out there. It's also completely within your budget.

I myself own the EES for my K5. It's nicer then the stock screen, but I stil prefer the electronic display because of the precision.

Moreover, I find the whole process of exchanging the screens to be a royal PITA. Very tedious and fidgety. Even if everything goes well, you can still end up with dust on your screen.

**Lowell Goudge** · 01-21-2013, 06:06 AM

Originally posted by excanonfd

I was getting frustrated with the KatzEye split prism screen rendering the spot metering next to useless and I've read in one of the threads about this issue by the PF member Canada_Rockies mentioning the use of istD screen in K10D/K20D as the better solution for manual focus lenses than the stock screen. Here's his review of istD screen: PENTAX LL-60 AF Divided Matte (*istD, DS, DS2) reviews - Pentax Camera Accessory Review Database I found the istD screen a big improvement over the stock screen but the KatzEye split prism was still better and decided that I'll live with the crippled metering and chimp instead.

Where can you find one of this screen, I have no idea. Obviously, I have one but I'd want at least the lower threshold price you've mentioned since it cost me significantly more to have it shipped from Japan.

The main thing about the *istD screen is that the K10 and K20 meter much much better with manual lenses when using this focusing screen. If you are using non A lenses, this is the best option for metering, but still not necessarily the best for focusing. I use a split image in both my *istD and K10D with manual focus lenses and the stock screens in my K7D and K5D with AF lenses. I have sort of diverged into a dual system, one MF the other AF

Akarak · 01-25-2013, 06:27 PM

the thing abotu using the live view is that if has to flap the mirror twice and it's really slow, besides being a really REALLY low resolution input (probabaly the same as the 23fps burst mode jpeg it records) because when you zoom in the live view it looks interlaced/scanlined or something...

i will be buying a focusing screen by the end of the enxt month only.. so im wondering...

i only use manual primes, the 18-55 AL II kit lens is just a joke, i don't know if my copy is bad, but the auto focus is jsut horible and never works, eevn in broad daylight it hunts and hunts, and it's always selected in the midle, it's not automatic or anything...

my main work /walk around lens are...

smc-m 50mm f1.4
smc-m 35mm f2.8

i could get that canon screen PLUS that 1.33x magnifier cup...

i jsut want the best setup for my manual lens...

another question.. lets say i buy a k5ii.. will this focus screen work on it or i have to buy another one?

thank you guys for all the input, i felt really welcomed here

01-18-2013, 07:53 PM	#1
Akarak Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Photos: Gallery Posts: 124	Manual Lens focusing issues (focusing screen) Hello guys, i have read some posts about the canon matte focusing screen... i use the stock k20d screen and with the pentax smc-m 50mm f1.4 its random focused pics and it's such a same because i really enjoy it and this specific camera.. i know there are katseye screens and some canon mark dii screen mods.. but my reall question is... are there mate screens or any better/good screen drom canon for their crop sensor cameras?... because the problem here, i can't really afford 120usd for or even 50 for that mater for a "proper" screen Thanks in advance for any feedback

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01-18-2013, 08:28 PM	#2
tim60 Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2011 Photos: Albums Posts: 8,745	Another supplier of focusing screens is the Taiwanese business focusingscreen.com I use one of theirs and am fairly happy. But it still does not meet your $50 threshold.

01-18-2013, 08:36 PM	#3
steve1307 Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Sydney Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,130	AFAIK the super fine matte screen Canon EEs is only for FF viewfinders. The "S-type" from focussingscreen .com is a cut down version of that (and more expensive due to the effort required in the surgery. Most of the crop sensor cameras dont have real "proper" focusing screens because they darken the VF and with a smaller VF most purchasers want as much light coming in as possible. Most Canikon lenses these days are AF so no point having a matte screen. All the nice old Canon glass you can't use on their current bodies anyway. Seems its only us Pentax users that used the old fast MF glass on crop sensor bodies. I can thoroughly recommend the "S-type" screen but it is pricey. When using the M 50 /1.4 actually at 1.4 when you need the focus accuracy you could always use the live-view function. Actually <searches B&H> Canon does have 1 crop sensor S-type screen. All of the others are for 5D, 1D. Canon EF-S Focusing Screen for EOS 40D & 50D SLR 2379B001 $39 which is the same price as the FF 5D version The thing is, these still wont fit your K20D without surgery and are likely to be smaller since Canon has a 1.6x crop factor and these Cameras didnt have 100% viewfinders either. Looks like the choices are $39 for the Canon FF version and DIY surgery (check out the EEs thread in the K-5 forum or see the accessory review) Canon Eg-S Super Precision Matte Focusing Screen 3357B001 B&H or buy the version available at focusingscreen.com for $80-$85 Focusing Screen I chose the latter for my K-7, fitted it in under 10minutes and haven't looked back.

01-18-2013, 08:40 PM	#4
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by tim60 Another supplier of focusing screens is the Taiwanese business focusingscreen.com I use one of theirs and am fairly happy. But it still does not meet your $50 threshold. Too bad they recently raised their prices, but still, $80 USD is not bad for a Canon-derived precision matte screen. Steve

01-18-2013, 08:46 PM	#5
Akarak Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Photos: Gallery Posts: 124 Original Poster	Thank you for your reply, do you recomend any particular one for a non-pro photographer, the mate one is really the best one/more acurate? acording to that site, the screen is canon made, type S, so i went and read about it but i have a doubt... "Ec-S Super Precision matte. optimized for wide aperture lenses specifically those that have a maximum aperture of f1.8 - f2.8" what happends when i use my lens above 2.8? can i still focus but as i raise the aperture will it get darker? and if that's true, since i would only go above 2.8 on my smc-m 35mm 2.8 in situations with lots of natural light, would i be able to "get away with it" ? and when using digital lenses will it ruin the metering? thank you very much and sorry for any broken english

01-18-2013, 09:07 PM	#6
VisualDarkness Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Uppsala, Sweden Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,439	Your English is no problem at all to understand, mine usually gets way worse than that when I get tired! Both me and my brother thinks the S-type is easier to focus with than the stock K-5 screen even when it gets darker (slow lenses) due to the fact that it doesn't get as grainy. He got the stock K-5 screen and my S-type is pretty much always better in our eyes. Though I wouldn't say it would be worth the upgrade for slower lenses, but for your 1.4 it would be perfect. I don't know if the K20 stock screen is different than the K-5 though.

01-18-2013, 09:17 PM	#7
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by Akarak Thank you for your reply, do you recomend any particular one for a non-pro photographer, the mate one is really the best one/more acurate? acording to that site, the screen is canon made, type S, so i went and read about it but i have a doubt... "Ec-S Super Precision matte. optimized for wide aperture lenses specifically those that have a maximum aperture of f1.8 - f2.8" what happends when i use my lens above 2.8? can i still focus but as i raise the aperture will it get darker? and if that's true, since i would only go above 2.8 on my smc-m 35mm 2.8 in situations with lots of natural light, would i be able to "get away with it" ? and when using digital lenses will it ruin the metering? thank you very much and sorry for any broken english If you use the screen with a lens having a narrower maximum aperture, the viewfinder will be less bright than with a faster lens. That is the way it is, regardless of the screen you use. Your 28/2.8 should be fine. Your choice of focus screens may affect metering when used with A-contact lenses, but it generally is not a problem. More troublesome is the general inaccuracy of your K20D's meter for stop-down metering with non-A-contact lenses such as your M 28/2.8. There are a number of threads on this site discussing the issue or you can PM me and I will tell you what I do with my K10D. Steve

01-18-2013, 10:05 PM	#8
oxidized Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: USA - Delaware Photos: Albums Posts: 435	Originally posted by stevebrot Too bad they recently raised their prices, but still, $80 USD is not bad for a Canon-derived precision matte screen. Steve Well, when you add the shipping charges they end up being $100. Still, the Canon screen is great and totally worth it!! Another option would be to look into a magnifying viewfinder. I also have the TENPA 1.36x which I purchased for around $40. Together with the Canon focusing screen I rarely miss a shot with my Vivitar 105 macro or my 50mm 1.4 Takumar.

01-18-2013, 11:43 PM	#9
Fogel70 Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Photos: Albums Posts: 3,062	There are cheaper split screens available, but they might not be as good as katseye with slower lenses. Dealextreme has some made for K20d for $20-25, and they have free shipping. 45 Degree 3-in-1 High Accuracy Focusing Screen for Pentax K10D/K20D - Worldwide Free Shipping - DX 180 Degree 3-in-1 High Accuracy Focusing Screen for Pentax K10D/D20D - Worldwide Free Shipping - DX

01-18-2013, 11:52 PM	#10
excanonfd Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 1,421	I was getting frustrated with the KatzEye split prism screen rendering the spot metering next to useless and I've read in one of the threads about this issue by the PF member Canada_Rockies mentioning the use of istD screen in K10D/K20D as the better solution for manual focus lenses than the stock screen. Here's his review of istD screen: PENTAX LL-60 AF Divided Matte (*istD, DS, DS2) reviews - Pentax Camera Accessory Review Database I found the istD screen a big improvement over the stock screen but the KatzEye split prism was still better and decided that I'll live with the crippled metering and chimp instead. Where can you find one of this screen, I have no idea. Obviously, I have one but I'd want at least the lower threshold price you've mentioned since it cost me significantly more to have it shipped from Japan.

01-21-2013, 02:18 AM	#11
SyncGuy Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 821	Just get the Canon Ee-S screen from focusingscreen.com. I'd recommend to get the one with the "Rule of Third" grid and nothing else... There really is no other better screen out there in every aspect...

01-21-2013, 02:34 AM	#12
dlacouture Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Var, South of France Photos: Albums Posts: 1,074	And the EE-S is simply the best "stop-downer" out there : it gives a near perfect linear metering with those old M or m42 lenses, regardless of the aperture used... No more wild roller-coaster rides depending on the aperture you use, it's a treat!

01-21-2013, 02:35 AM	#13
Clavius Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: De Klundert Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,150	I know that the Liveview on the K20D is pretty bad, but it's still better for manual focussing then any focussing screen out there. It's also completely within your budget. I myself own the EES for my K5. It's nicer then the stock screen, but I stil prefer the electronic display because of the precision. Moreover, I find the whole process of exchanging the screens to be a royal PITA. Very tedious and fidgety. Even if everything goes well, you can still end up with dust on your screen.

01-21-2013, 06:06 AM	#14
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,888	Originally posted by excanonfd I was getting frustrated with the KatzEye split prism screen rendering the spot metering next to useless and I've read in one of the threads about this issue by the PF member Canada_Rockies mentioning the use of istD screen in K10D/K20D as the better solution for manual focus lenses than the stock screen. Here's his review of istD screen: PENTAX LL-60 AF Divided Matte (istD, DS, DS2) reviews - Pentax Camera Accessory Review Database I found the istD screen a big improvement over the stock screen but the KatzEye split prism was still better and decided that I'll live with the crippled metering and chimp instead. Where can you find one of this screen, I have no idea. Obviously, I have one but I'd want at least the lower threshold price you've mentioned since it cost me significantly more to have it shipped from Japan. The main thing about the istD screen is that the K10 and K20 meter much much better with manual lenses when using this focusing screen. If you are using non A lenses, this is the best option for metering, but still not necessarily the best for focusing. I use a split image in both my *istD and K10D with manual focus lenses and the stock screens in my K7D and K5D with AF lenses. I have sort of diverged into a dual system, one MF the other AF

01-25-2013, 06:27 PM	#15
Akarak Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Photos: Gallery Posts: 124 Original Poster	the thing abotu using the live view is that if has to flap the mirror twice and it's really slow, besides being a really REALLY low resolution input (probabaly the same as the 23fps burst mode jpeg it records) because when you zoom in the live view it looks interlaced/scanlined or something... i will be buying a focusing screen by the end of the enxt month only.. so im wondering... i only use manual primes, the 18-55 AL II kit lens is just a joke, i don't know if my copy is bad, but the auto focus is jsut horible and never works, eevn in broad daylight it hunts and hunts, and it's always selected in the midle, it's not automatic or anything... my main work /walk around lens are... smc-m 50mm f1.4 smc-m 35mm f2.8 i could get that canon screen PLUS that 1.33x magnifier cup... i jsut want the best setup for my manual lens... another question.. lets say i buy a k5ii.. will this focus screen work on it or i have to buy another one? thank you guys for all the input, i felt really welcomed here