Does lenses improve in quality....

slip · 01-22-2013, 10:10 AM

If a lens started production in, let's say, 2008 and ends, let's say 5 years later, does the quality (IQ in particular) get better as the years of production pass?
Is it standard to make improvements without telling the consumer so that earlier products doesn't look inferior?

Any and all options matter!!

Thanks

Randy

mrNewt · 01-22-2013, 10:14 AM

In theory ... no ... not as far as I know. How else would they extra charge you for a new "II" model!?

slip · 01-22-2013, 10:16 AM

Originally posted by mrNewt

In theory ... no ... not as far as I know. How else would they extra charge you for a new "II" model!?

Which part of the question are you referring to?

Thanks

Randy

mrNewt · 01-22-2013, 10:19 AM

Originally posted by slip

Which part of the question are you referring to?

Thanks

Randy

This one

Originally posted by slip

Is it standard to make improvements without telling the consumer so that earlier products doesn't look inferior?

As for the first one ... I don't think lens are like wine ... I doubt they get better with time

goubejp · 01-22-2013, 10:28 AM

I guess, this concern electronic parts or feedback from warranty to solve mechanical and/or electronic weeknesses. As an example, the SDM of the 16-50 was improved to increase its reliability. I'm quite sure that there are no optical changes.

MPrince · 01-22-2013, 10:28 AM

That's an interesting question, one that I doubt will ever be definitively and authoritatively answered.

I would guess no. I would think that a lens is designed and manufactured to be sold at a certain price point. Once designed, I would guess no further changes are made to a particular model without revising the model name. (I'm referring solely to the optical design here.)

But I'm just guessing, and I could be totally wrong.

**LaurenOE** · 01-22-2013, 10:33 AM

In manufacturing, the first runs of anything are usually *worse* than the final runs. However, there are exceptions. If during part of the manufacturing process, there is a key device/tool that wears as part of the machines that make whatever it is you are making, then unless they replace that device/tool you will get worse slop toward the end of the process.

Generally the people or machines that make things become fine tuned/skilled, and the final *thing* is usually the best.

slip · 01-22-2013, 10:35 AM

Originally posted by MPrince

That's an interesting question, one that I doubt will ever be definitively and authoritatively answered.

I would guess no. I would think that a lens is designed and manufactured to be sold at a certain price point. Once designed, I would guess no further changes are made to a particular model without revising the model name. (I'm referring solely to the optical design here.)

But I'm just guessing, and I could be totally wrong.

After working in factories half my life, I would have thought engineers would be at work trying to improve their products

Just a guess, though

**jatrax** · 01-22-2013, 10:41 AM

I would think the actual optical design remains unchanged. But improvements in quality control, manufacturing methods, assembly procedures and so on would be made on a continuous basis. At least in a forward thinking company. Workers on the line are usually offered bonuses for suggestions in improvement. A more reliable assembly procedure that results in a 5% improvement in average lens alignment (or something of the sort just using that as an example) would improve the average quality of the lens without any change in design.

Improvements in electronics, firmware, small parts (gears and so on) would normally be updated throughout the life of the production run and would not ever really be mentioned to the public.

**RKKS08** · 01-22-2013, 11:49 AM

I remember to have read some lens reviews more than 2 decades ago which suggested that the Takumar 2.8/135 [Bajonet] and the F2.5 one got improved coatings at least twice during their production time. The first time probably was about 1979~1981, when Pentax changed all non-SMC lenses from single-coating to multi-coating, and some years later when these got an improved multi-coating (but still far from SMC).

aoeu · 01-22-2013, 11:58 AM

Two examples:
Super-Takumar 50mm F1.4 (Early 8-Element Variant) Reviews - M42 Screwmount Normal Primes - Pentax Lens Reviews & Lens Database

SMC Pentax 15mm F3.5 Reviews - K Prime Lenses - Pentax Lens Reviews & Lens Database

Not a Number · 01-22-2013, 12:53 PM

Many of the Minolta manual focus lenses improved with improved coatings during their production runs also.

It wouldn't surprise me if this was true for all major lens makers.

civiletti · 01-22-2013, 01:58 PM

As mentioned above, coatings and autofocus motors may change. Generally, if optical formula changes, it is noted as a new lens version.

01-22-2013, 10:10 AM	#1
slip Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: 2 hours north of toronto ontario canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,535	Does lenses improve in quality.... If a lens started production in, let's say, 2008 and ends, let's say 5 years later, does the quality (IQ in particular) get better as the years of production pass? Is it standard to make improvements without telling the consumer so that earlier products doesn't look inferior? Any and all options matter!! Thanks Randy

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01-22-2013, 10:14 AM	#2
mrNewt Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: ON, RH Posts: 2,181	In theory ... no ... not as far as I know. How else would they extra charge you for a new "II" model!?

01-22-2013, 10:16 AM	#3
slip Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: 2 hours north of toronto ontario canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,535 Original Poster	Originally posted by mrNewt In theory ... no ... not as far as I know. How else would they extra charge you for a new "II" model!? Which part of the question are you referring to? Thanks Randy

01-22-2013, 10:19 AM	#4
mrNewt Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: ON, RH Posts: 2,181	Originally posted by slip Which part of the question are you referring to? Thanks Randy This one Originally posted by slip Is it standard to make improvements without telling the consumer so that earlier products doesn't look inferior? As for the first one ... I don't think lens are like wine ... I doubt they get better with time

01-22-2013, 10:28 AM	#5
goubejp Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: France Photos: Albums Posts: 804	I guess, this concern electronic parts or feedback from warranty to solve mechanical and/or electronic weeknesses. As an example, the SDM of the 16-50 was improved to increase its reliability. I'm quite sure that there are no optical changes.

01-22-2013, 10:28 AM	#6
MPrince Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: WV Posts: 1,495	That's an interesting question, one that I doubt will ever be definitively and authoritatively answered. I would guess no. I would think that a lens is designed and manufactured to be sold at a certain price point. Once designed, I would guess no further changes are made to a particular model without revising the model name. (I'm referring solely to the optical design here.) But I'm just guessing, and I could be totally wrong.

01-22-2013, 10:33 AM	#7
LaurenOE Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Back in Florida, but worldwide gigs! Photos: Albums Posts: 3,690	In manufacturing, the first runs of anything are usually worse than the final runs. However, there are exceptions. If during part of the manufacturing process, there is a key device/tool that wears as part of the machines that make whatever it is you are making, then unless they replace that device/tool you will get worse slop toward the end of the process. Generally the people or machines that make things become fine tuned/skilled, and the final thing is usually the best.

01-22-2013, 10:35 AM	#8
slip Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: 2 hours north of toronto ontario canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,535 Original Poster	Originally posted by MPrince That's an interesting question, one that I doubt will ever be definitively and authoritatively answered. I would guess no. I would think that a lens is designed and manufactured to be sold at a certain price point. Once designed, I would guess no further changes are made to a particular model without revising the model name. (I'm referring solely to the optical design here.) But I'm just guessing, and I could be totally wrong. After working in factories half my life, I would have thought engineers would be at work trying to improve their products Just a guess, though

01-22-2013, 10:41 AM	#9
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	I would think the actual optical design remains unchanged. But improvements in quality control, manufacturing methods, assembly procedures and so on would be made on a continuous basis. At least in a forward thinking company. Workers on the line are usually offered bonuses for suggestions in improvement. A more reliable assembly procedure that results in a 5% improvement in average lens alignment (or something of the sort just using that as an example) would improve the average quality of the lens without any change in design. Improvements in electronics, firmware, small parts (gears and so on) would normally be updated throughout the life of the production run and would not ever really be mentioned to the public.

01-22-2013, 11:49 AM	#10
RKKS08 Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Frankfurt am Main Posts: 1,241	I remember to have read some lens reviews more than 2 decades ago which suggested that the Takumar 2.8/135 [Bajonet] and the F2.5 one got improved coatings at least twice during their production time. The first time probably was about 1979~1981, when Pentax changed all non-SMC lenses from single-coating to multi-coating, and some years later when these got an improved multi-coating (but still far from SMC).

01-22-2013, 11:58 AM	#11
aoeu Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Oregon Posts: 496	Two examples: Super-Takumar 50mm F1.4 (Early 8-Element Variant) Reviews - M42 Screwmount Normal Primes - Pentax Lens Reviews & Lens Database SMC Pentax 15mm F3.5 Reviews - K Prime Lenses - Pentax Lens Reviews & Lens Database

01-22-2013, 12:53 PM	#12
Not a Number Moderator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Venice, CA Posts: 10,526	Many of the Minolta manual focus lenses improved with improved coatings during their production runs also. It wouldn't surprise me if this was true for all major lens makers.

01-22-2013, 01:58 PM	#13
civiletti Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Oregon Photos: Albums Posts: 1,435	As mentioned above, coatings and autofocus motors may change. Generally, if optical formula changes, it is noted as a new lens version.