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03-07-2013, 06:12 AM   #1
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Nodal Points for Panoramas

Let me know if you have already done this or have interest in seeing the results. I would also appreciate your findings for nodal points of various lenses - if the measurements include you camera please let me know which camera.

I am in the process of redoing my nodal point calibration for the DA*16-50 at various focal lengths along with some older legacy primes. It would be helpful if others have done this so we can compare notes and make the information available to other pano shooters. I did this once before for the Nodal Ninja 4. When finished I will post the results with the measurements for the camera body, a K-5 in my case, and for the lenses. This will let pano shooters with different camera bodies use the information available here Entrance Pupil Database - PanoTools.org Wiki calculate the correct nodal points for their panoramas.

I am doing this to fine tune by information for interior panoramas with objects located fairly close to the camera. I had more parallax on my recent outing than I desired.

03-07-2013, 07:45 AM   #2
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Great initiative, I've never done it though but i can try it.
I've the DA40, Sigma 30 and DA*50-135. All the other lenses are getting to long and you're doing the DA*16-50 already.

Here is a good explanation about the nodal point for the ones interesting.
Center of perspective
03-07-2013, 08:01 AM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
Great initiative, I've never done it though but i can try it.
I've the DA40, Sigma 30 and DA*50-135. All the other lenses are getting to long and you're doing the DA*16-50 already.

Here is a good explanation about the nodal point for the ones interesting.
Center of perspective
Thanks for the link - I was so confused seeing the OP and it piqued my interest.
03-07-2013, 10:00 AM   #4
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I can check my various heads for measurements (I have NN4 and NN5, M2, R1, Manfrotto, Agnos... jeez that's a lot!). They've all been calibrated for the K-5 and DA10-17 @10mm, but I have a few more lenses recorded for the M2 and NN5.

I use this method for finding the NPP: FINDING THE NO-PARALLAX POINT
Simple and fast, and accurate enough for modern stitching programs!

Keep in mind, if you're finding the NPP for a fisheye lens, it will vary based on the amount of overlap you have in your images (the NPP for a fisheye isn't a "point" but rather a degree-relative "field").

03-07-2013, 10:30 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by panoguy Quote
I can check my various heads for measurements (I have NN4 and NN5, M2, R1, Manfrotto, Agnos... jeez that's a lot!). They've all been calibrated for the K-5 and DA10-17 @10mm, but I have a few more lenses recorded for the M2 and NN5.

I use this method for finding the NPP: FINDING THE NO-PARALLAX POINT
Simple and fast, and accurate enough for modern stitching programs!

Keep in mind, if you're finding the NPP for a fisheye lens, it will vary based on the amount of overlap you have in your images (the NPP for a fisheye isn't a "point" but rather a degree-relative "field").
Thanks. I plan to use the tape on the window method with a distant object - hoping for the most accurate result. My last pano effort a week ago was in a small, but beautiful, church with a large central chandelier. I noticed the parallax with regard to the chandelier and the sculptures on the dome ceiling. So it is back to the drawing board. This week I am off shooting birds but I will work on this next week and post the results for several of my lenses including the DA* 16-50 at several focal lengths. I do not have a fisheye but would like one of the really wide rectilinear Sigmas.
03-15-2013, 04:48 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by panoguy Quote
I can check my various heads for measurements (I have NN4 and NN5, M2, R1, Manfrotto, Agnos... jeez that's a lot!). They've all been calibrated for the K-5 and DA10-17 @10mm, but I have a few more lenses recorded for the M2 and NN5.

I use this method for finding the NPP: FINDING THE NO-PARALLAX POINT
Simple and fast, and accurate enough for modern stitching programs!

Keep in mind, if you're finding the NPP for a fisheye lens, it will vary based on the amount of overlap you have in your images (the NPP for a fisheye isn't a "point" but rather a degree-relative "field").
I did a first pass at calibrating the entrance point for the DA* 16-50 lens. On the NN5 the setting is 9.85 cm. The distance from the K-5 tripod screw center to the face plate is 41.6mm so the entrance point of this lens is 56.9 mm from the face plate.

I plan on doing the same calculation for all my lenses (except macro): SMC 35 f3.5, Helios-44M-7 58mm f2; Tokena EL 28mm f2.8; Olympus MC Auto-T 85mm f2 in a K mount; SMC Takumar 55mm f2. In addition for Gigapans I will also calibrate my longer lenses Sigma 70-200 f2; Sigma 150-500 OS zoom and an Olympus MC Auto-T 400mm f6.3 in a K Mount.

Then I'll wait awhile and redo-do the lenses again - the actual position is somewhat subjective.

I also sent Adam a message to see if there is a way to post this information on the forum along with updates. I volunteered to help keep the information current.

Let me know if you have any lens data to include,
03-17-2013, 03:10 AM   #7
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Here are the results of a more precise calibration for the entrance pupil of several lenses. The entrance pupil measurement L2 refers to the measurements listed in Entrance Pupil Database - PanoTools.org Wiki This Database also lists appropriate dimensions of most cameras which will let you calculate the correct setting of these lenses on your camera.
P { margin-bottom: 0.08in; } Pentax DA* 16-50MM F2.8 @ 16 MM ~ 10.6cm is Nodal Ninja 5 Setting so 106.0-41.6 = 64.4mm is L2 for DA*16-50mm at 16mm
Pentax DA* 16-50MM F2.8 @20 MM ~ 10.3cm is Nodal Ninja 5 Setting so 103.0-41.6 = 61.4mm is L2 for DA*16-50mm at 20mm
Pentax DA* 16-50MM F2.8 @28 MM ~ 9.95cm is Nodal Ninja 5 Setting so 99.5-41.6 = 57.9mm is L2 for DA*16-50mm at 28mm
Pentax DA* 16-50MM F2.8 @35 MM ~ 9.10 cm is Nodal Ninja 5 Setting so 91.0-41.6 = 49.4mm is L2 for DA*16-50mm at 35mm
Pentax DA* 16-50MM F2.8 @50 MM ~ 8.10 cm is Nodal Ninja 5 Setting so 81.0-41.6 = 39.4mm is L2 for DA*16-50mm at 50mm
Pentax SMC 35mm f3.5 @35mm ~4.85 cm is Nodal Ninja 5 Setting so 48.5-41.6 = 6.9mm is L2 for SMC 35 f3.5
SMC 55mm F2 M42 @55mm ~4.25 cm is Nodal Ninja 5 Setting so 42.5-41.6 = 0.9mm is L2 for SMC 55mm F2 M42
Tokina EL 28mm @28mm ~5.65cm is Nodal Ninja 5 Setting so 56.5-41.6 = 14.9mm is L2 for Tokina EL 28mm K mount
Helios 44M-7 52mm F2 @ 52mm ~4.25cm is Nodal Ninja 5 Setting so 42.5-41.6 = 0.9 is L2 for Helios 44M-7 52mm F2 M42
Olympus Auto-T 85mm F2 @85mm ~3.8cm is Nodal Ninja 5 Setting so 38.0-41.6 = -3.6 is L2 for Olympus 85mm f2 with K mount
Please note - It was Difficult calibrating 85mm lens
These measurements are subjective - please let me know if you have different results from your testing.
04-30-2013, 02:33 PM   #8
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Nodal Point for smc PENTAX-DA 1:4 15mm ED AL Limited. Does anyone have the nodal point for the smc PENTAX-DA 1:4 15mm ED AL Limited lens? I just bought this because the DA*16-50 is very prone to flare and the smc PENTAX-DA 1:4 15mm ED AL Limited in addition to being sharp is flare resistant.

If someone has already done this I would appreciate your help, if not I will post the nodal point in about a week.

04-30-2013, 02:40 PM   #9
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I have the 15mm Limited (awesome lens), but haven't used it on a panohead, or for that matter most of my other non-fisheye lenses. Thanks for posting your previous findings of the 16-50 and various others. I've been tempted to find the no parallax point for my Samyang 85/1.4 so I can do those "simulated large format" type shots (brenizer method for wedding photogs).
05-03-2013, 02:02 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by RockvilleBob Quote
Here are the results of a more precise calibration for the entrance pupil of several lenses. The entrance pupil measurement L2 refers to the measurements listed in Entrance Pupil Database - PanoTools.org Wiki This Database also lists appropriate dimensions of most cameras which will let you calculate the correct setting of these lenses on your camera.
P { margin-bottom: 0.08in; } Pentax DA* 16-50MM F2.8 @ 16 MM ~ 10.6cm is Nodal Ninja 5 Setting so 106.0-41.6 = 64.4mm is L2 for DA*16-50mm at 16mm
Pentax DA* 16-50MM F2.8 @20 MM ~ 10.3cm is Nodal Ninja 5 Setting so 103.0-41.6 = 61.4mm is L2 for DA*16-50mm at 20mm
Pentax DA* 16-50MM F2.8 @28 MM ~ 9.95cm is Nodal Ninja 5 Setting so 99.5-41.6 = 57.9mm is L2 for DA*16-50mm at 28mm
Pentax DA* 16-50MM F2.8 @35 MM ~ 9.10 cm is Nodal Ninja 5 Setting so 91.0-41.6 = 49.4mm is L2 for DA*16-50mm at 35mm
Pentax DA* 16-50MM F2.8 @50 MM ~ 8.10 cm is Nodal Ninja 5 Setting so 81.0-41.6 = 39.4mm is L2 for DA*16-50mm at 50mm
Pentax SMC 35mm f3.5 @35mm ~4.85 cm is Nodal Ninja 5 Setting so 48.5-41.6 = 6.9mm is L2 for SMC 35 f3.5
SMC 55mm F2 M42 @55mm ~4.25 cm is Nodal Ninja 5 Setting so 42.5-41.6 = 0.9mm is L2 for SMC 55mm F2 M42
Tokina EL 28mm @28mm ~5.65cm is Nodal Ninja 5 Setting so 56.5-41.6 = 14.9mm is L2 for Tokina EL 28mm K mount
Helios 44M-7 52mm F2 @ 52mm ~4.25cm is Nodal Ninja 5 Setting so 42.5-41.6 = 0.9 is L2 for Helios 44M-7 52mm F2 M42
Olympus Auto-T 85mm F2 @85mm ~3.8cm is Nodal Ninja 5 Setting so 38.0-41.6 = -3.6 is L2 for Olympus 85mm f2 with K mount
Please note - It was Difficult calibrating 85mm lens
These measurements are subjective - please let me know if you have different results from your testing.
I bought a new lens to cut down the bad flare problems I had using the DA*16-50 at 16mm - here is the lens and the nodal point

SMC Pentax-DA 15mm F4 ED AL Limited ~ 5.975 cm is Nodal Ninja Setting so 59.75 - 41.6 = 18.15 is L2 for SMC Pentax-DA 15mm F4 ED AL Limited

5.975 wasn't actually measured but 6.0 was to much and 5.95 was too little - therefore 5.975
10-21-2013, 10:53 AM   #11
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Nodal Point for the K-3
For those interested in panorama photography Ricoh supplied the information needed to use the previous posted (above) entrance pupil data with the K-3l
To correctly set up your camera/lens for panoramas you need to follow the procedure described in Entrance Pupil Database - PanoTools.org Wiki
The needed measurement for the K-3 is the distance from the center of the tripod mount to the lens flange face, L1 in the above reference
Ricoh supplied this for us. L1 is 41.52mm. Ricoh also supplied a schematic for the K-3 which I attached that illustrated this measurement.
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File Type: pdf K-3 Mount Schematics-1.pdf (567.7 KB, 185 views)
11-23-2013, 08:41 AM   #12
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Nodal Point for the Bower/Samyang 8mm f3.5 fisheye L2 is 40.8 (untested - I will test in the next two weeks - this is based on data provided by Entrance Pupil Database - PanoTools.org Wiki for the Bower *mm and by Pentax for the L1 distance of 41.42 (posted earlier with schematic)
Therefore the untested Nodal Ninja 5 setting is 9.14 (50.0 + 41.42)
I will test this the week following Thanksgiving for a virtual tour I am doing using the K-3, Bower 8mm, NN5 and confirm the results.

Last edited by RockvilleBob; 11-24-2013 at 04:42 AM. Reason: error transferring numbers
01-06-2014, 01:01 PM   #13
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A better table - also updated the Bower lens after further testing - Jan 14 2014
I thought I would post some nodal points of lenses with settings for the Nodal Ninja
A few are subjective and untested in the field - I am currently field testing the Bower 8mm fisheye
The 85mm lens was difficult to determine - but I may have the only copy for a Pentax mount of that lens
I would appreciate feedback on settings you have determined -
We can keep this table updated with field proven results

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Last edited by RockvilleBob; 01-14-2014 at 10:34 AM.
01-06-2014, 04:43 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by RockvilleBob Quote
I am in the process of redoing my nodal point calibration

Often, people talk about the "nodal point" of their lenses while discussing panos. It should be the "entrance pupil" you should calibrate for, not the nodal point. The entrance pupil is the exact optical point where you should pivot the lens to avoid parallax problems.

This is a big misunderstanding in photography.
01-06-2014, 05:02 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by flyer Quote
Often, people talk about the "nodal point" of their lenses while discussing panos. It should be the "entrance pupil" you should calibrate for, not the nodal point. The entrance pupil is the exact optical point where you should pivot the lens to avoid parallax problems.

This is a big misunderstanding in photography.
You are correct - I use the term nodal point when it should be entrance pupil. When I next revice the chart I'll change the wording. I do cite the method of calculation in an earlier post in this same discussion on the forum.
Just looking to share date on lenses.

I just finished calibrating the Bower 8mm - I did get good results with the data listed.

If you have some lenses to add, please post - I will update the chart and change the wording.
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